New here, and would like to talk about some events i've experienced...

[Oli]

No, again
1) presumably the guy posted in this section by choice (although lacking data I will admit the possibility it was moved here)
2) you've missed the point again. The definition is pseudoscience is something that claims to be science and isn't
Science, by definition, relies upon data, repeatability and a number of other things - none of which are available here. It was a subjective experience and he's presented subjective data. We can't make any measurements, we can't test his experience and we can't experiment. So it's not science.
Science and scientists do not claim to be infallible, the claim is that we can show that what we know fits the KNOWN facts and can be repeatedly shown to fit. We can show how and why, and make predictions that bear out.
Strange experiences come and go, and the common factor in most cases is mental dysfunction. Each individual's personal experience varies as to details, times, effects etc. so either it's a medical condition or every single occurrence is a totally separate un-related "spirit", "dimension" or whatever and also therefore not measurable. Occam's razor.
You linked fear to religion, not jumping to conclusions (one wrong), I asked if you had data, not what it is to you (two wrong) and we aren't jumping to conclusions (you're out).
There is no evidence of jumping to conclusions, in cases where the medical condition was offered it's because historical eveidence has shown that is has been the cause in similar cases
It is not presumption, it is matching the data to known patterns. Undeniably, it could be that these things are genuinely happening as he reports them, but the weight of evidence does not support that hypothesis and there is insufficient evidence to support his version.

 

[Serb05]

Fromthedarksea, you are a great debater. You like to keep an open mind, and think similarly to me to an extent. Your input has been very much appreciated, atleast by me. Since i'm banned, good luck with these morons. I hope someday they can be put into their place.

 

[duendy]

oli--what do you mean by 'medical condition' regarding the 'scientific' justification to dis-count someone's EXPERIENCE?

 

[Oli]

The experience is undeniably real to that person. But if there is a proven medical condition showing a dysfunction of the brain then the experience is demonstrably an internal one and has no actual reality in the outside world. If I am mentally ill and I see flying saucers/ whatever they are in my mind and not outside for someone else to see. Therefore they cannot be measured. The experience as an experience is not discounted, but the real-world manifestation of that experience has no measurable scientific reality.

 

[duendy]

the IRONY now is that i am aware you are not aware of the pseudoscence masquerading
as 'the mental health establishment'!

 

[Oli]

I didn't mention the mental health "establishment" I said (wrote) that "if there is a proven medical condition etc". Or do you deny there is such a thing as mental illness/ dysfunction. In which case we to take everyone's personal experience as the reality?
I have no love for those "disciplines" which append the word science on the end of their name in the hopes of gaining legitimacy, but there is a medical science, no?

 

[Roman]

couldn't help notice how popular the term "pussy" has become here at Sciforums. Wasn't it first Xev who launched the term like centuries ago... Xev, who never impressed you much 'cuz she lacked substance (or words to that effect). And "peacock"... wasn't that an>roid.v2's term way back when... anyway, Roman, you're so original.

Funny that you say that, since I've not been here long enough to see either of those. 'Bout half way through my time here at sci, Xev took off, and I haven't a clue who an>roid.v2 is.

Anyway, you're a pussy. Peacock.

 

[Ophiolite]

Duendy, can you clarify, for the sake of Oli and a continued meaningful discussion, your reasons for having a strongly negative view of the mental health establishment.

 

[SkinWalker]

He watched Matt Lauer interview of Tom Cruise.

 

[Neildo]

After extensive research I can report that, at least in the case of Neildo, extreme gullibility, failure to understand the scientific method, both coupled with below average intelligence, are not genetic in character.
Please recall the following anecdote.

Uh, WTF are you talking about? Any other asshat assumptions you'd like to make? And thanks for doing "extensive research" on me, lol, freakin weirdo.

DarkSea beneath the piss-take was my underlying serious point. Of course I was interpreting the experience from my own vantage point, just as Neildo was interpreting the experience from his own vantage point. Both of these are incorrect. Science attempts to view events either from no vantage point at all, or from all (or many) vantage points. This permits objectivity.
Anecdotal evidence is for the most part crap. I have seen ghosts - I do not believe in ghosts. I have seen UFOs - I do not believe in UFOs. I have practiced telekinesis - I do not believe in extra-sensory powers. It is very easy to misinterpret events if we do not approach them from a mutliple range of viewpoints, accompanied by a vigorously critical attitude to what is being investigated.

Yes, but where did I make an outlandish claim as to what that experience was? I said I didn't know what it was, but it was weird, since this is a thread about "weird experiences". I said it COULD be many things, but I ended with, whatever it was, it was weird.

As a father I can report that when my son has slept for eighteen hours I will certainly walk into his room and say "Hi, son. What day is it?" It's a more fatherly query than "Get out of that ****ing bed, you lazy, good for nothing, no-account weasel. You've been dead to the world for eighteen ****ing hours."
So I offer Neildo's father two things: congratulations on his nice sense of irony; commiserations for its absence, along with several other attributes, in his son.

Nope, this wasn't him being a smartass, he was dead serious with a dazed and confused look on his face. If he was screwing around, I wouldn't have even bothered mentioning this. I'm not a friggin idiot. He never comes in my room nor would ever be concerned about me because we each live our own lives despite living in the same house. Nor would it be out of the ordinary for me to go 18 hours from even seeing or talking to him -- because again, I'm an adult and I live my own life -- even if I happened to be cramped in my room the whole time since I do lots of work from my PCs. I also make the most money in this household and I generously give him almost half of what I make so there'd be no reason for him to bust in like that calling me a lazy ass when I'm supporting him.

But thanks anyways, please try again.

- N

[If you're going to indulge in ad hominem attacks, you might as well try and make them elegant. ]

I prefer beretta's to the head. I love the colorful, artistic spray that ensues.

 

[duendy]

I didn't mention the mental health "establishment" I said (wrote) that "if there is a proven medical condition etc".

me: but in te context of the real world that can mean 'mental illness'! rtey can say--if you have a 'weird' experience, thayt doesn't conform to THEIR view of reality that you have a 'MEDICAL@ condition they diagnose as 'mental illness'.

Or do you deny there is such a thing as mental illness/ dysfunction.

me: Yes i do. It is a pile of psedoscience. Social control. There is no scientific evidence whatsoever.

In which case we to take everyone's personal experience as the reality?

me: Well, if you dont trust yor own experience, whose DOyou trust? Authoritarian Central Control? THAT is what is going on!

I have no love for those "disciplines" which append the word science on the end of their name in the hopes of gaining legitimacy, but there is a medical science, no?

of what?

 

[Squeak22]

"I strongly doubt a person who's seen something indefinetely unexplainable could say they dont believe in it." <=== Ophiolite Read that, i'm sure your brilliant 150 IQ should go through it without a problem. Even tho i got 130 when i was 16.

Um dude. Your IQ will not change as you age. You don't get magically better cognitive skills as you get older.

Two points from me:

1) Most UFO's are reported by untrained observers, so they think they see something that is incredible when it is most likely something common. (Reflections from Satellites or Aircraft, meteorites, or strange atmospheric conditions).

2) You might think about using proper grammer, full words, and decent formatting when typing up responses. You will be taken more seriously.

 

[JudasWept]

Um dude. Your IQ will not change as you age. You don't get magically better cognitive skills as you get older.

As a matter of fact, the younger you are, the more likely you are to have a high IQ. It is based on mental age, after all. More is expected from you as you mature.

 

[duendy]

look at it thisa way....i've just watched a documentary about te recent tornado in Birmingham UK, where much damag ws caused.......an individakl amateur weather forecaster enthusiast predicted there was gonna be the tornado...the MET office wit its mega computer systems didn't!

thepoint? that individual skills of knowing are deemed inferior in this corporate age.

why do the so-called sceptics always genralize individual perception and worship the big mega corps that claim thy are a load of woo woos?

why do you underestimate ALL individuals experience?....even ones who document strange craft?

 

[Ophiolite]

DarkSea I just belatedly read your lengthy response to an ealier post of mine. From my perspective you are truly closeminded. You tell me - a scientist and and artist (rather poor at both roles)- what I can and cannot be. You have a stereotypical view of science that can only come from someone firmly embedded on what they perceive is the outside. I presently see no value in continuing any discussion with you. Perhaps that is the only thing we can agree on. Go with god.

 

[Ophiolite]

thepoint? that individual skills of knowing are deemed inferior in this corporate age.

This doesn't square with my experience. I work for a medium sized coporation. The company tolerates my idiosyncracies and eccentricities (of which there are many) because I am bloody good at what I do. There are several others who fit the same bill. Individuality is not only welcomed, it is celebrated.

 

[Serb05]

Um dude. Your IQ will not change as you age. You don't get magically better cognitive skills as you get older.

Two points from me:

1) Most UFO's are reported by untrained observers, so they think they see something that is incredible when it is most likely something common. (Reflections from Satellites or Aircraft, meteorites, or strange atmospheric conditions).

2) You might think about using proper grammer, full words, and decent formatting when typing up responses. You will be taken more seriously.

Hey, i'm sure i've made plenty of typos and grammer mistakes, but thats because i'm lazy, not illiterate. Secondly everything you wrote under "1)" has been stated in my reply. I state, "I strongly doubt a person who's seen something indefinetely unexplainable could say they dont believe in it." This means that theres no proof it was a reflection of a satellite that is thousands of miles above the earth and would not even make a sparkle of reflection.

You state, "You might think about using proper grammer, full words, and decent formatting when typing up responses. You will be taken more seriously." Nice gramm "e" r, dipshit. May i point out, the correct way to spell "Grammer" is Grammar. Learn how to spell for yourself before criticizing others. Maybe you should use some common sense and think to yourself, "hmm, maybe this serb guy is actualy writing very quickly in order to get his point across sooner, hence the mistakes." You have nothing on me, and your attempt at undermining me failed at first glance.

I also like how you start off: "Um Dude". After that having the nerve to tell me, that by using better gramm"e"r i might get taken more seriously.

 

[Squeak22]

Hey, i'm sure i've made plenty of typos and grammer mistakes, but thats because i'm lazy, not illiterate. Secondly everything you wrote under "1)" has been stated in my reply. I state, "I strongly doubt a person who's seen something indefinetely unexplainable could say they dont believe in it." This means that theres no proof it was a reflection of a satellite that is thousands of miles above the earth and would not even make a sparkle of reflection.

You missed my point. Very few of the people who have seen these "objects" are trained observers, so they cannot be sure that it's NOT an explainable phenomena. There is also a small minority of people who have agenda's against the government or other such grudges. Likely, most of the rest are sightings of military craft that have not been publicly acknowledged yet.


And nice jab against the grammer (oops I mean Grammar). I'm mearly pointing out that you using internet shorthand is not a good way to get taken seriously on these kinds of boards. You will usually get the ZOMG'ers, but that's about it.

 

[Serb05]

Squeak22, you must have missed the other 30 replies i've made saying it was not a UFO. It was an object 4metres in the air that was hovering/flying i have no idea. Also, it was an abstract compilation of various shaped and sized, straight "white(glowing)" lights. I have no idea what it was, and the only evidence i have to back myself up is that my friend tapped me on the shoulder and told me to "look there!!." Please try to understand i have nothing to gain through lies, especialy over internet forums.

It almost looked like still thunder, that instead of coming from the clouds, formed beside a tree, in odd shapes ofcorse. If you dont believe me, then dont try to prove me wrong with the: "your eyes are damaged, you're lying, it was a Hallucination etc..." bullshit. Two of us saw it, possibly 3 if his sister seen it as she states, that rules out hallucinations. It was 3-4 metres away from us, which means visibility was also not a factor. There is nothing to suggest that what i said didn't happen, but ofcorse there could be a scientific explination. If all the relpies i had got were atleast in a non-offencive tone i might have over looked the fact they make no attempt at understanding, nor are they true.

 

[Ophiolite]

This person is obviously deranged; his words are ghostly and without actuality, yet he expects us to see what it is he is talking about.

The point of my post was that I do not expect you to see anything. Go with god.