Your time upon this earth is ending...
- Thread starter Lawdog
- Start date
Lori,
I have no desire to debate religion with you and therefore I won't. I think you are extremely happy and a lot more certain of many things in your life than the average bloke. I can't imagine that it matters at all how you got there. It doesn't to me.
I've liked you from your first post. We all put a persona to the people behind the posts and I gave you a really nice one (maybe it's because Lori was my first true love - in junior high
)
I'm looking forward to your "apple"! Stay happy.
I have no desire to debate religion with you and therefore I won't. I think you are extremely happy and a lot more certain of many things in your life than the average bloke. I can't imagine that it matters at all how you got there. It doesn't to me.
I've liked you from your first post. We all put a persona to the people behind the posts and I gave you a really nice one (maybe it's because Lori was my first true love - in junior high
)I'm looking forward to your "apple"! Stay happy.
Lori, this actually is worth pursuing a little.
Let us just say for a moment that someone else could hear and experience your communication, for example it is only one other person that could share your experience.
It is true that that other person would consider this to be a greater proof than not being able to share your proof.
But even this is not enough. Even if 100 people were only able to share the problem of veracity still exists [ mass halucinations are not that uncommon.]
The thing is "higher" evidence is unconditional as to who can share it. It places no criteria on who can participate, it is purely unconditional. Like a flower in bloom being available for all to share in it's fragrance.
When the evidence is conditional it immediately places it in the illusion basket.
If what you have experienced is conditional on only your participation and not unconditional on who participates it looses it's credibility as objective proof.
If the evidence of God is conditional on belief then it is very poor evidence.
If God exists, his existence would be unconditional in absolutum. Certainly not subject to our desires or wishful thinking. The evidence of God would be available to all, every animal, every human regardless of religious belief. He would be as self evident as the universe that we all participate in.
So I suggest you ask your companion why his existence is conditional on yours.
Let us just say for a moment that someone else could hear and experience your communication, for example it is only one other person that could share your experience.
It is true that that other person would consider this to be a greater proof than not being able to share your proof.
But even this is not enough. Even if 100 people were only able to share the problem of veracity still exists [ mass halucinations are not that uncommon.]
The thing is "higher" evidence is unconditional as to who can share it. It places no criteria on who can participate, it is purely unconditional. Like a flower in bloom being available for all to share in it's fragrance.
When the evidence is conditional it immediately places it in the illusion basket.
If what you have experienced is conditional on only your participation and not unconditional on who participates it looses it's credibility as objective proof.
If the evidence of God is conditional on belief then it is very poor evidence.
If God exists, his existence would be unconditional in absolutum. Certainly not subject to our desires or wishful thinking. The evidence of God would be available to all, every animal, every human regardless of religious belief. He would be as self evident as the universe that we all participate in.
So I suggest you ask your companion why his existence is conditional on yours.
Obviously you greatly underestimate your creative potential....Lori_7 said:
There is of course no doubt what so ever that your story will be reconciled one way or the other.....after all we all die.......
superluminal said:Lori,
I have no desire to debate religion with you and therefore I won't. I think you are extremely happy and a lot more certain of many things in your life than the average bloke. I can't imagine that it matters at all how you got there. It doesn't to me.
I've liked you from your first post. We all put a persona to the people behind the posts and I gave you a really nice one (maybe it's because Lori was my first true love - in junior high
I'm looking forward to your "apple"! Stay happy.
You are so nice. Your name isn't Mike is it? He was my first love in junior high. He was a musician, and still is as far as I know. I used to love watching his band practice after school. We used to talk for hours on the phone about politics, religion, music, our families. And sometimes he would play his guitar for me over the phone too. I thought it was very romantic.
Nope. Just some guy who is reminded of how he wanted to feel, in the way back, searching... Oh well. As long as we're happy, right?
Quantum Quack said:
His existence is not conditional upon mine...my recognition of His is though...that's only logical. Evidence of God is available to all regardless of religious belief or anything else. He is as self evident as the universe that we all participate in. Whether or not you recognize Him depends upon your perception. Which can be shaped by many things.
and there was this one time when He yelled at me...which startled me. It wasn't in anger...He was just trying to get my attention...and it worked.
Kewl, an interactive fantasy. I suppose we'll read about you in the papers some day when you begin listening to the voices in your head. Seek professional help.
I actually do think that schizophrenia is a spiritual manifestation.
That's only when you forget to take your medication. Please remember to take your medication.
And finally, I could have never in a million gazillion years imagined in my wildest dreams what God has done for me. I just don't have that good of an imagination.
I don't agree, I think your imagination is as fired up and active as any other who claims to hear voices speaking to them. Since you feel you haven't that good an imagination required for your 'wild dreams,' perhaps you're unaware of your mental disorder. Again, seek professional help - it sounds like you have a long way to recovery.
Kewl, an interactive fantasy. I suppose we'll read about you in the papers some day when you begin listening to the voices in your head. Seek professional help.
I actually do think that schizophrenia is a spiritual manifestation.
That's only when you forget to take your medication. Please remember to take your medication.
And finally, I could have never in a million gazillion years imagined in my wildest dreams what God has done for me. I just don't have that good of an imagination.
I don't agree, I think your imagination is as fired up and active as any other who claims to hear voices speaking to them. Since you feel you haven't that good an imagination required for your 'wild dreams,' perhaps you're unaware of your mental disorder. Again, seek professional help - it sounds like you have a long way to recovery.
Proof of God's existence is given to each person who wants to know, on an individual basis, and by God Himself, and can not be shared. He has given me proof...it is personal.
Yet, you cannot explain anything further than that, which leads one to conclude you are either delusional or lying. Which one is it?
If you want proof...then He will personally give it to you.
That is either a delusion based on another delusion or a lie based on another lie.
Are you dumb enough to want to take my or someone else's word for it anyway????????
No, but you are, you said so yourself.
.like that figurative "hole" inside me being filled. I don't feel empty and unfulfilled like I used to.
The "hole" is most likely the need to believe, which you have filled with fantasy.
Knowing God, and knowing that He is who He says He is, gives you peace.
Hence the term, 'Ignorance is bliss.'
was directly attributed to this miracle that I had happen to me at that time.
What miracle, explain?
My explanation prompted my parents to take me to the doctor for a head mri. They of course found nothing wrong.
Mental disorders usually don't show up on a MRI.
something was inside me...a spirit...the Spirit...I'm not sure how it works you know. All I know is that it was like someone lit my ass on fire...plugged me in.
So, the fact that you simply grew up a little, has you attributing it to a spirit inside of you? You don't think that you have the inclination to grow up yourself?
Really lori, nothing of what you'd claimed happened to you is any different from anyone else. It certainly has no indication of gods existing, especially when you can't offer any explanations in regards to your so-called 'proofs, miracles or ass-lightings.'
Yet, you cannot explain anything further than that, which leads one to conclude you are either delusional or lying. Which one is it?
If you want proof...then He will personally give it to you.
That is either a delusion based on another delusion or a lie based on another lie.
Are you dumb enough to want to take my or someone else's word for it anyway????????
No, but you are, you said so yourself.
.like that figurative "hole" inside me being filled. I don't feel empty and unfulfilled like I used to.
The "hole" is most likely the need to believe, which you have filled with fantasy.
Knowing God, and knowing that He is who He says He is, gives you peace.
Hence the term, 'Ignorance is bliss.'
was directly attributed to this miracle that I had happen to me at that time.
What miracle, explain?
My explanation prompted my parents to take me to the doctor for a head mri. They of course found nothing wrong.
Mental disorders usually don't show up on a MRI.
something was inside me...a spirit...the Spirit...I'm not sure how it works you know. All I know is that it was like someone lit my ass on fire...plugged me in.
So, the fact that you simply grew up a little, has you attributing it to a spirit inside of you? You don't think that you have the inclination to grow up yourself?
Really lori, nothing of what you'd claimed happened to you is any different from anyone else. It certainly has no indication of gods existing, especially when you can't offer any explanations in regards to your so-called 'proofs, miracles or ass-lightings.'
Bells
Staff member
Does it become more intense when the medication wore off?Lori_7 said:
So you're in charge and not your God? I'd have thought God being God, he/she/it would determine the extent of your relationship.
Ooook. Some people view such things as being the result of an over active imagination. Others who experience such things are in fact schizophrenic. And others still are found to have multiple-personality disorder.
And why wouldn't it? After all, if the voices in your head are yelling at you, it would be a frightening experience.
Tapping you on the shoulder just wasn't working for him/her/it huh?
Is this the thing about the rock star again? Was that you or someone else who had this thing for a 'rock star'?
You know, many schizophrenics who have been accused of murder and other horrid crimes also define it as a spiritual manisfestation. The son of my parents best friend once dangled his body over a 3rd floor balcony railing when we were both children (I was 12). I still remember standing there in absolute horror, not daring to move, scream or call out to him or anyone else lest he fell off the side. All I could actually do at the time was to stand there and whisper to him to come towards me (I was on the balcony with him and not 3 floors below). He had not been diagnosed as a schizophrenic as yet... that diagnosis came one month later when his parents decided that his behaviour was not normal for a boy his age (he was 13). When he came down off the railing, and I literally hugged him, grabbed his hand and dragged him inside where our parents were having coffee totally unaware of what had just transpired, I asked him what in the hell made him do it. His reply was that it was as though an angel had tempted him to lie down on the railing... he thought it was God.
Schizophrenia is NOT a spiritual manifestation. It is a disease that if left untreated can result in pain and death to the sufferer and at times to other people as well.
You'd be amazed at how vivid an imagination can be. It's not God that has changed your life, made you give up drugs, tobacco, drinking, etc. That was you. You did that. For goodness sake woman, have some credit in your own abilities.
Bells,
That was a really useless post. You don't have anything more intelligent or at least interesting than that? Give us a break would you?
Q, the same goes for you. You guys post nothing but some whimiscal opinions that you would like everyone to take seriously, when in fact they are based upon nothing except what you've dreamed up in your mind. You argue what you want to believe, which has no bearing on reality. Reality is that I'm honest and completely sane, and that you're dead wrong. But that's ok, because the truth doesn't matter to either of you in the slightest.
Snakelord, you too...why do you feel like you have to be such an asshole?
The way that you guys respond to me, you would think I did something to offend you or that I was trying to hurt you in some way. Listen, I'm not a mean or evil person. I don't hate you guys. I'm not offensive to you, or at least I don't try to be. I'm just out here honestly participating in discussions. You can have your own opinion, but you really have no right to say that I'm a liar or that I'm delusional or have mental problems. Why? Because you don't rightly know that, that's why, and because you can not prove it. None of you are in any position to make a judgement call like that here. Surely you must realize that. YOU DON'T KNOW THE FIRST THING ABOUT ME OR MY LIFE OR WHAT'S HAPPENED TO ME. You want to believe what you want to believe and so you just make the shit up. I don't make shit up about you.
Your "arguements", and I use that term loosely are old and tired. Get a new one. I mean, don't you find it a bit embarrassing that the best you can ever come up with is "liar" and "delusional"? It's so lame....
That was a really useless post. You don't have anything more intelligent or at least interesting than that? Give us a break would you?
Q, the same goes for you. You guys post nothing but some whimiscal opinions that you would like everyone to take seriously, when in fact they are based upon nothing except what you've dreamed up in your mind. You argue what you want to believe, which has no bearing on reality. Reality is that I'm honest and completely sane, and that you're dead wrong. But that's ok, because the truth doesn't matter to either of you in the slightest.
Snakelord, you too...why do you feel like you have to be such an asshole?
The way that you guys respond to me, you would think I did something to offend you or that I was trying to hurt you in some way. Listen, I'm not a mean or evil person. I don't hate you guys. I'm not offensive to you, or at least I don't try to be. I'm just out here honestly participating in discussions. You can have your own opinion, but you really have no right to say that I'm a liar or that I'm delusional or have mental problems. Why? Because you don't rightly know that, that's why, and because you can not prove it. None of you are in any position to make a judgement call like that here. Surely you must realize that. YOU DON'T KNOW THE FIRST THING ABOUT ME OR MY LIFE OR WHAT'S HAPPENED TO ME. You want to believe what you want to believe and so you just make the shit up. I don't make shit up about you.
Your "arguements", and I use that term loosely are old and tired. Get a new one. I mean, don't you find it a bit embarrassing that the best you can ever come up with is "liar" and "delusional"? It's so lame....
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YOU DON'T KNOW THE FIRST THING ABOUT ME OR MY LIFE OR WHAT'S HAPPENED TO ME.
Heres' what we do know.
Fact: You claim to have talked with god and he talked with you, in fact, you claim he yelled at you.
Fact: You claim to have had some miracle, experience, ass-lighting to which you attribute your relationship with god. You refuse to explain how it is that god managed to light your ass and how it is you confirmed his existence.
Fact: You stopped living a self-abusive lifestyle, most likely caused by an abusive childhood.
Fact: You claim to have proof of gods existence, which you also claim will be made aware to the rest of us, but cannot explain what exactly is the proof, how we will recognize the proof, or when and how it will be made aware to us.
Conclusion: Lying or delusional.
And until you can come up with something better than the above, no other conclusion can be surmised.
You may now return to your regularily scheduled fantasy.
Heres' what we do know.
Fact: You claim to have talked with god and he talked with you, in fact, you claim he yelled at you.
Fact: You claim to have had some miracle, experience, ass-lighting to which you attribute your relationship with god. You refuse to explain how it is that god managed to light your ass and how it is you confirmed his existence.
Fact: You stopped living a self-abusive lifestyle, most likely caused by an abusive childhood.
Fact: You claim to have proof of gods existence, which you also claim will be made aware to the rest of us, but cannot explain what exactly is the proof, how we will recognize the proof, or when and how it will be made aware to us.
Conclusion: Lying or delusional.
And until you can come up with something better than the above, no other conclusion can be surmised.
You may now return to your regularily scheduled fantasy.
The only reason you call me a liar or delusional is because you don't want to believe me. I have not refused to explain anything; you just don't like my explanation. For example...how many times have I said that I didn't have an abusive childhood, and yet there you go again claiming that I did. YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT MY CHILDHOOD EXCEPT FOR THE FACT THAT I SAID IT WASN'T ABUSIVE BUT QUITE THE CONTRARY. Dude, you are just plain making shit up about me and that's not cool.
I have repeated over and over to you...I have described my proof....which is in essence, my relationship with God. I've told you...you want proof? Then have your own relationship with Him. Then you'll have proof like I do.
You want evidence? It's everywhere. Take a look in the mirror to start. Atheistic scientists are even having to admit that there is an intelligent design to the universe nowadays. God is obvious and in your face. You go around with you hands over your eyes and ears hollaring "I can't see you, I can't hear you", and then try to say that I'm the dishonest one. You're blind because you want to be. It doesn't have anything to do with me, so quit insisting that I convert you...again...it's not going to happen. My story will be told. The evidence of what has happened to me will be shown. I don't know when. But I do know that when it is, you'll still say that I'm lying. Only then, considering many other people's corroboration, you'll have to turn it into some conspiracy. You believe what you want to believe regardless of evidence. In other words, it's you, not me. So quit blaming me for your reluctance to know God.
I have repeated over and over to you...I have described my proof....which is in essence, my relationship with God. I've told you...you want proof? Then have your own relationship with Him. Then you'll have proof like I do.
You want evidence? It's everywhere. Take a look in the mirror to start. Atheistic scientists are even having to admit that there is an intelligent design to the universe nowadays. God is obvious and in your face. You go around with you hands over your eyes and ears hollaring "I can't see you, I can't hear you", and then try to say that I'm the dishonest one. You're blind because you want to be. It doesn't have anything to do with me, so quit insisting that I convert you...again...it's not going to happen. My story will be told. The evidence of what has happened to me will be shown. I don't know when. But I do know that when it is, you'll still say that I'm lying. Only then, considering many other people's corroboration, you'll have to turn it into some conspiracy. You believe what you want to believe regardless of evidence. In other words, it's you, not me. So quit blaming me for your reluctance to know God.
The only reason you call me a liar or delusional is because you don't want to believe me.
Only someone who is completely gullible or delusional would ever believe you.
I have repeated over and over to you...I have described my proof....which is in essence, my relationship with God. I've told you...you want proof? Then have your own relationship with Him. Then you'll have proof like I do.
You've described nothing at all - no proof whatsoever, other than we are supposed to take your word. All you've described is a fantasy, and anyone can have those.
Your proof is evidence that you are lying or delusional, sorry to say.
Atheistic scientists are even having to admit that there is an intelligent design to the universe nowadays.
No, they haven't. Why are you lying?
The evidence of what has happened to me will be shown. I don't know when. But I do know that when it is, you'll still say that I'm lying.
That would be very unscientific of me to dismiss evidence, which I would never call if indeed it was evidence. Of course, you're merely blowing hot air out your ass.
You believe what you want to believe regardless of evidence.
Show me evidence and I'll believe you. You have none, though.
And until such time as you can show anything other than your silly fantasies, you'll be little more than considered a liar or someone with a serious mental disorder.
That is yet another fact.
Only someone who is completely gullible or delusional would ever believe you.
I have repeated over and over to you...I have described my proof....which is in essence, my relationship with God. I've told you...you want proof? Then have your own relationship with Him. Then you'll have proof like I do.
You've described nothing at all - no proof whatsoever, other than we are supposed to take your word. All you've described is a fantasy, and anyone can have those.
Your proof is evidence that you are lying or delusional, sorry to say.
Atheistic scientists are even having to admit that there is an intelligent design to the universe nowadays.
No, they haven't. Why are you lying?
The evidence of what has happened to me will be shown. I don't know when. But I do know that when it is, you'll still say that I'm lying.
That would be very unscientific of me to dismiss evidence, which I would never call if indeed it was evidence. Of course, you're merely blowing hot air out your ass.
You believe what you want to believe regardless of evidence.
Show me evidence and I'll believe you. You have none, though.
And until such time as you can show anything other than your silly fantasies, you'll be little more than considered a liar or someone with a serious mental disorder.
That is yet another fact.
Your fantasy is that I'm a liar or someone with a mental disorder. The fact is that I'm an extremely honest and perfectly sane person, who thus, has never been diagnosed with any mental disorder. Your arguement is shit.
Oh, and I also wanted to mention that what I attest to is scripturally sound. The Bible is one account after another of people who hear God's voice, are counseled and led by His Holy Spirit, that knew Jesus personally, that had their lives turned absolutely upside down with this knowledge, that lived in faith, and that had mind-blowing miracles happen to them...oh yea, and let's not forget revelation of prophecy. What I attest to is in accordance with the Bible and is confirmed in scripture.
And I had to add, to be completely honest, because I think it's important...that I've been celibate for over 4 years except for one really drunken, horrible, five-minute long, mistake that I barely remember happening a couple of years ago. It was hideous, it made me cry afterwards, and I'd really just rather not think about it. And minus two make-out sessions with my ex-boyfriend last winter. Also, I do exhibit mild ocd behaviors, which I think lends itself to my addictive tendencies. Which I consider to be a litttle crazy, but also relatively normal based upon what I've seen in society today. But other than those things, I'm completely sane.
Oh, and I also wanted to mention that what I attest to is scripturally sound. The Bible is one account after another of people who hear God's voice, are counseled and led by His Holy Spirit, that knew Jesus personally, that had their lives turned absolutely upside down with this knowledge, that lived in faith, and that had mind-blowing miracles happen to them...oh yea, and let's not forget revelation of prophecy. What I attest to is in accordance with the Bible and is confirmed in scripture.
And I had to add, to be completely honest, because I think it's important...that I've been celibate for over 4 years except for one really drunken, horrible, five-minute long, mistake that I barely remember happening a couple of years ago. It was hideous, it made me cry afterwards, and I'd really just rather not think about it. And minus two make-out sessions with my ex-boyfriend last winter. Also, I do exhibit mild ocd behaviors, which I think lends itself to my addictive tendencies. Which I consider to be a litttle crazy, but also relatively normal based upon what I've seen in society today. But other than those things, I'm completely sane.
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Since most people on Earth believe in the spiritual and a far lesser amount of people do not believe in the spiritual, who is the one with a serious mental disorder? What is normal is not self-defined.(Q) said:
The evidence is within us and not in the word. The evidence is all around us, but it is called other things as it has been observed and labeled by science.
The evidence is not reasonable
Suppose that God sent a bolt of lightning because the world, as a whole, prayed for it. Then scientists studied the bolt of lightning that came from a clear sky and found out that it was caused from an electrical discharge from the friction of two specific gases and could be reproduced in the lab. Is the bolt no longer a miracle? What is a miracle? Is it only something that is not yet explainable, or is it the workings of God through the material existence? The one who designs a computer, surely knows how to make the computer perform in certain and maybe mysterious ways. Has not science disproved God's miracles? Sure, we found out that they weren't miracles anymore. Or are they, and we just understand how God is performing them using the rules he set forth? Is everything an explained miracle? Is the fact that I breathe a miracle that has been understood by science?
I do not expect you to believe in anything, you have to make your own decisions. I am just contributing to the discussion. And I say that with the current evidence, all we are left with is to have faith in science or a god and that neither one is the truth until we make it the truth in our hearts.
In the end, the truth will be known. I would rather be wrong and have false faith in a piece of moral fiction than to be caught with my pants down and have science once again make observations that disproved yet another theory, and that is the theory that there is no God. Life does not end when you have faith in God. It is enhanced with peace and love as you strive to be a better you.