Your time upon this earth is ending...

[Lori_7]

I was jaded at the start...primarily by my exposure to organized religion...Christianity specifically. I had intellectually debated the topic somewhat at that point, but was really only doing so to provide the appearance, to myself even, that I really wanted to know the truth about God's existence. I mean, I figured that it had to be the question most worth answering in one's lifetime...the most meaningful...the most consequential. Which is why...deep down inside....I really didn't want to know.

But during my mental masturbation over it, I got an overview of the world's major religions, and concluded that the behaviors that manifest in people, as a result of their religious beliefs, are generally very much the same. I mean, you know...love is good....hate is bad...be generous....don't steal....whatever. But that Christianity was exclusive, in that it wasn't supposed to have to do with those behaviors necessarily, or works, but everything to do with Jesus being God in the flesh and what that means for us.

I had concluded at that point that there probably was a God...if I had to take a guess. But that it wasn't about guessing. It wasn't about intellectual debate. It wasn't a game. I knew that if I ever really did get that answer, that it would change everything for me forever. And as I said, it was as if I was almost forced into having to know the truth...because of things I had experienced...things I had done....feelings that didn't make sense. There came a point at which I really wasn't afraid to know anymore...or I wanted to know regardless of my fear...regardless of what I wanted the answer to be, and what it would mean for the rest of my life.

I wasn't about to take someone's word for it. I had to know for myself. I had to experience something that made it clear to me. I had to know for sure. It's just the way I am. It's too important of a question to let someone else answer for you, or to believe just because it's written down in a book, or because there is an organization of people who support it. I could never do that. It doesn't make sense to do that.

 

[Raithere]

Yeah, I agree. Today's physicists are not even close to grasp the secrets of the universe since they haven't understood their own mystery, the mystery of the Sphinx But for the "sons of God" nothing was unknown. After a long time the "son of man" will also find all these things and they will reach the state of their ancestors.

This makes no sense what so ever, it is purely fantasy and myth.

~Raithere

 

[superluminal]

Well Lori,

That describes my experience in a very similar way. I called myself an agnostic. And I said to myself "self, there's only one way I'll accept the god thing, and that's by direct divine implant in my brain." Because religion was such a contradictory mess that had no relevance to my life or the real world of nature. I was on the verge of being an atheist or a warrior for god. So I asked. No implanted thoughts. This was a questing over a few years.

Now, what would I have done if I had gotten a voice in my head? First see a doctor. Seriously. Then ask for a confirmation from god. If it was forthcoming I might have different outlook.

In reality, my constitution is such that I will generally reject things that are visible only to me. I know how easy it is for the brain to convince itself of the wildest things. Without external objective confirmation, how can you ever know that what you perceive is, in fact, not an artifact of your particular brain?

The famous example of John Nash comes to mind. Despite seeing and interacting with actual people(!) he eventually rejected his internal version of reality because he had such a high rationality quotient and listened to that part of his brain. I know of no one else who has done this. The people did not go away, but he managed to function reasonably thereafter.

My point is, that without objective confirmation that rules out wish-fulfillment, how can you know. I mean really know?

I believe religious belief is akin to schizophrenia only generally much milder. You can hold two versions of reality in your head, and make them coexist happily. I think this belief engine is an inherent trait of humans and probably had great survival value in the distant past (as many others here have pointed out). When a desire to believe a thing is so strong, your wish-fulfillment centers will not take no for an answer, so it becomes real to you.

As I said, I think this is an inherent trait of humans. Maybe we atheists are the "broken" ones...?

 

[Yorda]

Ah ha! I knew there was something weird about you Yorda....weird yet familiar. What do you mean by "sons of god", and by distinguishing yourself among "primitive" humans?

yeah. maybe there's something weird about me. or maybe i'm just completely INSANE!

by sons of god i mean an ancient race of "giant" humans who lived long ago on earth, who were really nice and wise, unlike us. by primitive humans i meant primitive humans... another race race of humans who lived on earth at that time, who lived in the woods, fighting against nature animals and themselves. it was probably about 30000 years ago. it's in the bible... they sons of god had children with them, and then our human race was born.

This makes no sense what so ever, it is purely fantasy and myth.

~Raithere

not really you just don't know enough about what i said to know what im talking bout.

 

[Raithere]

not really you just don't know enough about what i said to know what im talking bout.

This makes even less sense. Remember, there is only one mind experiencing itself subjectively. (this is what you believe, right?) So how can I not know what I know that I don't know?



Silly person.

~Raithere

 

[Yorda]

This makes even less sense. Remember, there is only one mind experiencing itself subjectively. (this is what you believe, right?) So how can I not know what I know that I don't know?

Because you identify yourself with your body instead of yourself (mind) That way, you are merely a body. You are not aware of your reality. But I have already said this.

 

[Lori_7]

yeah. maybe there's something weird about me. or maybe i'm just completely INSANE!

by sons of god i mean an ancient race of "giant" humans who lived long ago on earth, who were really nice and wise, unlike us. by primitive humans i meant primitive humans... another race race of humans who lived on earth at that time, who lived in the woods, fighting against nature animals and themselves. it was probably about 30000 years ago. it's in the bible... they sons of god had children with them, and then our human race was born.

Oh, my bad. I misunderstood you. That's funny...I guess I'm a bit paranoid about the whole alien abduction hybrid thing...sorry. You know, renown and holy are not the same thing.

 

[Lori_7]

Snakelord,

I'll show you pudding.

Love,

Lori

 

[SnakeLord]

The best you can muster is that tripe? Please, try harder.

 

[Quantum Quack]

Well Lori,

That describes my experience in a very similar way. I called myself an agnostic. And I said to myself "self, there's only one way I'll accept the god thing, and that's by direct divine implant in my brain." Because religion was such a contradictory mess that had no relevance to my life or the real world of nature. I was on the verge of being an atheist or a warrior for god. So I asked. No implanted thoughts. This was a questing over a few years.

Now, what would I have done if I had gotten a voice in my head? First see a doctor. Seriously. Then ask for a confirmation from god. If it was forthcoming I might have different outlook.

In reality, my constitution is such that I will generally reject things that are visible only to me. I know how easy it is for the brain to convince itself of the wildest things. Without external objective confirmation, how can you ever know that what you perceive is, in fact, not an artifact of your particular brain?

The famous example of John Nash comes to mind. Despite seeing and interacting with actual people(!) he eventually rejected his internal version of reality because he had such a high rationality quotient and listened to that part of his brain. I know of no one else who has done this. The people did not go away, but he managed to function reasonably thereafter.

My point is, that without objective confirmation that rules out wish-fulfillment, how can you know. I mean really know?

I believe religious belief is akin to schizophrenia only generally much milder. You can hold two versions of reality in your head, and make them coexist happily. I think this belief engine is an inherent trait of humans and probably had great survival value in the distant past (as many others here have pointed out). When a desire to believe a thing is so strong, your wish-fulfillment centers will not take no for an answer, so it becomes real to you.

As I said, I think this is an inherent trait of humans. Maybe we atheists are the "broken" ones...?

Very well said SuperL...well said...

Whilst I don;t wish to diminish Loris experiences etc it is as SL has suggested important to consider the strength or the level of veracity of evidence that Lori is describing.
There is no doubt that to you Lori, that you have evidence of the devine. However if the evidence is restricted only to you then you must ask why this is so.

Proof of the supernatural, paranormal, ESP,imaginary friends etc is not proof at all until it is able to be shared by others in a way that an apple or other object is able to be shared. It is true that even then it is still arguably subjective proof but certainly if shared a superior proof to that which may be a self justifying delusion.

I feel that once you can understand the quality of the proof you have as being diminished by it's unsharability you will relax a little and get a better perspective on your physical, emotional and imaginary life....Oh yes...we all have an imaginary life...

BTW some recognise it reasonably well and can make the distinctions but others have greater trouble in distinguishing between their imaginary and real existance.
Now don't get me wrong....I am not saying your experience is invalid but I question why your experience is unable to be shown by example to others thus placing you in the position of inability to sustain any real credibility.

Maybe you should ask who ever it is you are talking with why it has placed you in a non-credible position?

 

[Lori_7]

SL,

We're all broken, and magnificent at the same time.

With me, it started subtle, and would become more intense at certain times...depending upon me. It always depends upon me...I'm very aware of the fact that I determine the extent of my relationship with God. Sometimes it's like an implanted thought, sometimes an epiphany, sometimes an answered prayer, and there was this one time when He yelled at me...which startled me. It wasn't in anger...He was just trying to get my attention...and it worked. And it's come to be this amazing and mind blowing in my face ginormous miracle.

SL, I have objective confirmation. That's how I know. It's in the form of my life. And I'm going to share it. And it will be confirmed...by a platinum selling rock band. Ha. You want to talk about waiting for answers? This happened to me a year and a half ago...this miracle...and I'm still waiting on the physical manifestation motherload. But this has been and will be a life-long journey.

I actually do think that schizophrenia is a spiritual manifestation. So in a weird way, I agree with what you're saying. There is a Holy Spirit, and there are many unholy spirits. You can identify a spirit by it's "fruit".

And finally, I could have never in a million gazillion years imagined in my wildest dreams what God has done for me. I just don't have that good of an imagination. I don't think that anyone does. He's blown my mind.

 

[Yorda]

You know, renown and holy are not the same thing.

Many people think that the sons of God were evil because in the beginning, their descendants (we) inherited their physical size and people thought that all who were physically giants were sons of God. The real sons of God honored God above all (hence the name) Jesus was one of them (hence the name son of God). He was born into a human body but he inherited all their divine wisdom and universal love.

 

[superluminal]

Thanks QQ.

QQ:

Proof of the supernatural, paranormal, ESP,imaginary friends etc is not proof at all until it is able to be shared by others in a way that an apple or other object is able to be shared. It is true that even then it is still arguably subjective proof but certainly if shared a superior proof to that which may be a self justifying delusion.

We've discussed this before. We arguably live in a consensual reality. You could argue that each of us lives in our own purely subjective fantasy, creating reality as a mind simulation. So what, say I. All I need is the concurrance of all you fantasy figures, based on my idea of objective scientific evidence and experimental results. That's proof. An apple is an apple because we can eat it and agree.

Lori, we need you (or someone) to share their apple.

 

[Quantum Quack]

so Lori you have discovered the potential of your imagination.....well done.....may be you should write a book or something, like Lord of the rings, or 2001 or Superman4 or .......the point being that how do you know that all you have achieved is unveiling your own creative potential and have realised how this creative potential can change your life?

 

[Lawdog]

SL,

SL, I have objective confirmation. That's how I know. It's in the form of my life. And I'm going to share it. And it will be confirmed...by a platinum selling rock band. Ha. You want to talk about waiting for answers? This happened to me a year and a half ago...this miracle...and I'm still waiting on the physical manifestation motherload. But this has been and will be a life-long journey. .

Christ does not want us to obsessed with miracles and wonders...but with His person, and service within His Church.

And finally, I could have never in a million gazillion years imagined in my wildest dreams what God has done for me. I just don't have that good of an imagination. I don't think that anyone does. He's blown my mind.

Yet you still, after all Hes done, mock and castigate his Church, like St. Paul did before his conversion.

 

[SnakeLord]

SL, I have objective confirmation. That's how I know. It's in the form of my life. And I'm going to share it. And it will be confirmed...by a platinum selling rock band. Ha. You want to talk about waiting for answers? This happened to me a year and a half ago...this miracle...and I'm still waiting on the physical manifestation motherload.

A) I remember you telling me about it a long time ago

B) At that time you also stated that god/jesus was giving you this rockstar what.. a year and a half ago - and nothing has come from it. You're still going on about it. Do you remember what I asked you back then? But see here's the thing...

For a year and a half you've been sitting on your ass waiting for sky fairies to do it all for you. "It" told you you'd get this rock star but it never happened - no matter how many assurances that you made saying it would. My line of thought is simply that if you had have got off your ass and done something you might have actually got somewhere. The sky beings are worthless to anything.

I guess of course that sky beings come into play with things that we know we're just not good enough to get - and that is the very core of the matter. When it comes down to it you are merely hoping to get something you know you wont ever get by putting your 'faith' into those that dwell in your imagination.

I've got this thing for Jennifer Love Hewitt.. I think she's the hottest woman on the planet, and by jove would I love a date or 1000 with her. All the conjuring up of 'holy head spirits' wont ever make that a reality, and I think that is what you've lost a lot of your grip on.

Don't get me wrong, I can understand how bad you must want this, but you stand a lot more chance actively doing something about it than hoping the voices in your head will solve it all for you.

Of course you will just continue making up convenient excuses to ensure you forever have the fantasy that your dreams will come true. The last excuse was: "god is teaching me about patience", or some similarly pointless way of slipping reality under the carpet, but I sincerely pray to your head voice/god/jesus or whatever you'd like to call it and merely ask that it stops playing with your head and gets a real job instead.

I could have never in a million gazillion years imagined in my wildest dreams what God has done for me.

Which is what exactly? I mean seriously.. think about it and then tell me.

I just don't have that good of an imagination.

Your imagination is likely to be as good as everyone elses, just you don't seem to able to realise when you're imagining.

 

[Lawdog]

I was jaded at the start...primarily by my exposure to organized religion...Christianity specifically. .

What did you expect? Disorganized Religion???

I had intellectually debated the topic somewhat at that point, but was really only doing so to provide the appearance, to myself even, that I really wanted to know the truth about God's existence. .

What if God told you He wanted you to be in the Church, what would you say then? Would you refuse?

But during my mental masturbation over it, I got an overview of the world's major religions, and concluded that the behaviors that manifest in people, as a result of their religious beliefs, are generally very much the same. I mean, you know...love is good....hate is bad...be generous....don't steal....whatever. But that Christianity was exclusive, in that it wasn't supposed to have to do with those behaviors necessarily, or works, but everything to do with Jesus being God in the flesh and what that means for us. .

It has everything to do with behavior. Did Christ not say to the adulteress: "Go and sin no more..." not, go and dont worry about your
behavior"

I wasn't about to take someone's word for it. I had to know for myself. I had to experience something that made it clear to me. I had to know for sure.

Thats nice and all, but what if our savior had said "I have to no for sure whether my sacrifice on the cross will be accepted by men" Its better just to accept the teaching of higher authority, its more Christ like, as He prayed "Thy Will be done" not Thy will be done when it makes sense to me"

 

[Lori_7]

Many people think that the sons of God were evil because in the beginning, their descendants (we) inherited their physical size and people thought that all who were physically giants were sons of God. The real sons of God honored God above all (hence the name) Jesus was one of them (hence the name son of God). He was born into a human body but he inherited all their divine wisdom and universal love.

Yorda,

Jesus wasn't "one of" anything except the Holy Trinity. From where or from whom have you gotten your information, if you don't mind?

 

[Lori_7]

Thanks QQ.



We've discussed this before. We arguably live in a consensual reality. You could argue that each of us lives in our own purely subjective fantasy, creating reality as a mind simulation. So what, say I. All I need is the concurrance of all you fantasy figures, based on my idea of objective scientific evidence and experimental results. That's proof. An apple is an apple because we can eat it and agree.

Lori, we need you (or someone) to share their apple.

I can't wait to share my apple. Actually, I won't have a choice but to...he's famous.

 

[Lori_7]

so Lori you have discovered the potential of your imagination.....well done.....may be you should write a book or something, like Lord of the rings, or 2001 or Superman4 or .......the point being that how do you know that all you have achieved is unveiling your own creative potential and have realised how this creative potential can change your life?

Yea, if this were my imagination, I should most certainly be getting paid. I couldn't have dreamed this up in a million years, I'm telling you. It's too complicated...and substantiated. I'm not the only one involved in this, and I don't know who started it. It doesn't matter. My story is going to be confirmed. It's a matter of time.