Your time upon this earth is ending...

[Yorda]

The concept of unity has been around for a long time. This is somewhat different than the notion that matter, space, and time are interdependent. It is most certainly different than "knowing" anything. That concepts explored in ancient philosophy may be similar to concepts used in modern science does not mean the understanding was the same.

Yeah, I agree. Today's physicists are not even close to grasp the secrets of the universe since they haven't understood their own mystery, the mystery of the Sphinx But for the "sons of God" nothing was unknown. After a long time the "son of man" will also find all these things and they will reach the state of their ancestors.

~zk9cnrk

 

[Lawdog]

Raithere,
You made some good points. Thank you. Being more Bonventuren I have always been a critic of St. Thomas' philosophy myself, and I thought that by using his thoughts I could come to understand them better, yet there is still much mystery in them for me as well, but some of your criticism are worth looking into. I need to work on someof these questions. There were a few logic problems however.

I'll see if I can come up with some responses this week.

 

[(Q)]

All I've done is disagree with Lawdog, and I haven't bothered to read most of Jadon's posts. No offense Jadon, just haven't had the time to butt into your conversations.

That's impossible!

You all claim to have the "knowledge of god." How is it possible for you to disagree with one another, in fact, in most cases, you all vehemently disagree?

 

[(Q)]

the mystery of the Sphinx

What's so mysterious about multitudes of slaves and whips?

 

[Yorda]

the mystery of the Sphinx

What's so mysterious about multitudes of slaves and whips?

omfgroflol, that's probably the funniest thing i've heard in my life this far! it's coz you think yr just a body... i don't mean the piece of earth (stone), i mean the mystery of what the sphinx represents.

besides, it wasn't built by slaves. only because YOU (primitive humans) use slaves, you think that WE (sons of god) also did!

n64 was better than ps

 

[Lori_7]

All I've done is disagree with Lawdog, and I haven't bothered to read most of Jadon's posts. No offense Jadon, just haven't had the time to butt into your conversations.

That's impossible!

You all claim to have the "knowledge of god." How is it possible for you to disagree with one another, in fact, in most cases, you all vehemently disagree?

Well if you were paying attention you would know that Lawdog has been indoctrinated into an organization of men, and that is where his "knowledge" comes from...he's spoonfed by his church and believes whatever the organization tells him like some drone. And I, on the other hand, am not a member of said organization, but am born again of the Holy Spirit. The Spirit is my Counselor and teacher...just like it says it should be in the Bible. And I get my knowledge through experience, so that I truly understand, and am not just taking someone's word for it...even if that someone is God Himself.

I hate it when people take the Lord's name in vain and witness falsely about Him...which is what a lot of "church people" like Lawdog do. They wouldn't know Jesus if he was standing right in front of them. Actually, if He were, they would probably try to crucify Him again...because they sure wouldn't like what He had to say about their precious organization. After all, in regards to organized religion, things haven't changed much in 2000 years. Lawdog is one of what the Bible calls a "pharisee".

 

[Lori_7]

lori

No I'm not (a liar), and no one who knows me would say that I am.

Ok, so that means you have told everyone you know that you have proof of god and that you have shown them the proof and they are also convinced?

People believe what they want to believe. Some want the truth, and some want lies.

As a "believer," you've just described yourself. Non-believers seek answers, that which you cannot or will not provide.

You, on the other hand, do not seek answers, as you believe answers are useless because you have a so-called 'truth.' And since a truth is relative to one observer, it can therefore be a lie to another - Christianity to Islam, for example.

Religion does not provide answers, but only spawns more questions that cannot be answered.

You'll get what you want, and it won't be my fault.

Ah yes, every Christian must eventually spout off and occassional, "Nyah, Nyah, Nyah, you're going to hell and I'm not!" when they get cornered and can't find anything else to say.

How very puerile of you, or should I say, 'Christian?'

It's a discussion forum, and it's for sharing opinions, beliefs, and points of view regarding different topics. Odds are you're not going to agree with everyone out here.

Yes, but this is not a place to bleat your beliefs and eschew the inquiries.

That doesn't mean that I have to give a shit whether or not you agree with me though.

No one said you have to give a shit. However, you are doing little more than preaching and trolling by spouting ridiculous claims and then failing to back them up. Keep it up and you'll be a prime candidate for banning.

Ok, I'm going to say this one more time, real slow-like, and let's see if your retarded ass can actually understand.

Proof of God's existence is given to each person who wants to know, on an individual basis, and by God Himself, and can not be shared. He has given me proof...it is personal. If you want proof...then He will personally give it to you. And if you don't want it, then quit whining about not getting it. And quit looking to me to provide it, AS IT COMES FROM GOD HIMSELF, NOT ME. GET YOUR OWN F'ING PROOF, AND STOP LOOKING TO OTHER PEOPLE TO DO YOUR WORK FOR YOU, YOU LAZY POS. Are you dumb enough to want to take my or someone else's word for it anyway????????

 

[Lori_7]

But you're wrong. It's been fully tried and tested and did not work. All your personal assurances don't change anything at the end of the day.

You're right...only YOU can make things change for you. And who do you think that you're fooling anyway? You don't want God...you hate God! You've made that very apparent...

 

[mouse]

GET YOUR OWN F'ING PROOF, AND STOP LOOKING TO OTHER PEOPLE TO DO YOUR WORK FOR YOU, YOU LAZY POS.

Why should we want to try to proof something in which we do not believe in the first place?

 

[SnakeLord]

Proof of God's existence is given to each person who wants to know, on an individual basis, and by God Himself

Wrong. Tried, tested, nothing.

If you want proof...then He will personally give it to you

Wrong * 2. Tried, tested, nothing.

You don't want God...you hate God!

No more than you hate Lenny the leprechaun. One cannot hate that which one does not believe in. I've tried explaining this to you before. It is quite simple to grasp, really, but it is seemingly rocket science to you.

 

[Lori_7]

Well Q, if you have all of the answers already, then what are you asking me for anyway?

I can't answer for God in regards to you. I don't even know you.

Changes...let's see...

There are some that are less observable...like that figurative "hole" inside me being filled. I don't feel empty and unfulfilled like I used to. Knowing God, and knowing that He is who He says He is, gives you peace.

More observable...

Been celibate for over 4 years now...

And I quit drinking, smoking, cigarettes and pot, after a 21 year severe addiction, caffeine, sugar, meat, dairy. Started eating all organic food. Stopped wearing makeup, and cut all of the hair color out of my hair. All overnight basically, on 4/1 of last year, and was directly attributed to this miracle that I had happen to me at that time. These are all things that I could not and did not do of my own will...I could never have. It was as if I turned into someone else overnight....someone who was a straight edge vegan. The affect was so observable and dramatic that of course everyone asked for an explanation. My explanation prompted my parents to take me to the doctor for a head mri. They of course found nothing wrong. From 4/1 to 7/7 of last year, something was inside me...a spirit...the Spirit...I'm not sure how it works you know. All I know is that it was like someone lit my ass on fire...plugged me in. I've never had so much energy. My sleep patterns completely reversed, and I needed much less. I was eating good and drinking 3 protein shakes a day, and the weight was still falling off me like crazy. I became thinner than I had ever been in my life. I was so flippin happy, and healthy, and sober, and different than I had ever been. It was definitely observable. On 7/7, and at 7am in the morning, I woke up from a rather vivid dream that had scared me. And at that moment, that fire...that energy left me, and I haven't felt anything like it since. At first, I was so tired...exhausted...all I wanted to do was sleep. Eventually I returned back to my normal self....meaning the way I felt...my body felt the same as it had before any of this miracle had happened...minus all of the addictions, and plus another paradigm shift that of course changes everything.

 

[Lori_7]

Wrong. Tried, tested, nothing.



Wrong * 2. Tried, tested, nothing.



No more than you hate Lenny the leprechaun. One cannot hate that which one does not believe in. I've tried explaining this to you before. It is quite simple to grasp, really, but it is seemingly rocket science to you.

Well then this shouldn't be rocket science to you....

How do you expect to communicate with and have a relationship with something that you don't believe exists?

 

[Lori_7]

Why should we want to try to proof something in which we do not believe in the first place?

EXACTLY.

 

[Lori_7]

omfgroflol, that's probably the funniest thing i've heard in my life this far! it's coz you think yr just a body... i don't mean the piece of earth (stone), i mean the mystery of what the sphinx represents.

besides, it wasn't built by slaves. only because YOU (primitive humans) use slaves, you think that WE (sons of god) also did!

n64 was better than ps

Ah ha! I knew there was something weird about you Yorda....weird yet familiar. What do you mean by "sons of god", and by distinguishing yourself among "primitive" humans?

 

[mouse]

How do you expect to communicate with and have a relationship with something that you don't believe exists?

I don't. Why should that be odd?

 

[Lori_7]

I don't. Why should that be odd?

Well good...explain your logic to Snakelord then, cause that's who I was talking to.

 

[SnakeLord]

How do you expect to communicate with and have a relationship with something that you don't believe exists?

You know, I never knew I had a sister. In my mind my 'sister' didn't exist. See I was adopted. The world went on for me, quite oblivious to the existence of a sister. One day she phoned me and there you go.

Your question has been rather easily answered.

The reason, if you're at all interested, that my sister contacted me was because she knew she had a brother somewhere and out of complete love spent half her life tracking me down.

What you need to understand and remember Lori, is that we are all born as atheists. You, me, Muhatma Ghandi, everyone. We have zero knowledge or care about sky beings, and unless we have parents and educational establishments that force those beliefs down our throats we have little choice but to remain atheists. Some become 'born-again' when lifes turmoils become too much to handle, but for the majority of us it all comes down to evidence. It's the reason very few people believe in leprechauns.

Now, to answer your question in another manner..

Would it not be normal for someone who finds god to have been, for a while, a non-believer? It is in the asking, "god are you there?" that would turn a non-believer like myself into a believer - and yet it has failed. You can make up a million and one excuses to try and change that fact but it doesn't.

That's all there is to it. As much as I beg, plead and ask for leprechauns to give me a sign. The same is true of god - your god, someone elses god, the roman god - it doesn't make a difference, the outcome is always the same.

When a man is ill he prays to god.. and dies from his illness
When a man is stuck in a flood he prays to god.. and drowns
etc..

When a man is ill he buys some medicine.. and gets better
when a man is stuck in a flood he gets a boat.. and sails off.

The simple fact of the matter is that the latter works whereas the former never does. No disrespect, but the proof is in the pudding.

 

[mouse]

Well good...explain your logic to Snakelord then, cause that's who I was talking to

I think you missed what I was trying to get accross. My excuses for interrupting to the both of you, though.

 

[wesmorris]

Well then this shouldn't be rocket science to you....

How do you expect to communicate with and have a relationship with something that you don't believe exists?

But you're going circular here.

If what you say above is relevant, you obviously believed it existed before doing whatever you were on a tyrade about earlier about talking to yourself.

So you're lying or confused. I figure probably the latter.

You say "just ask god and blah blah whatever", but you presume god in that statement.

God is a circular, ridiculous belief.

There are lots of ridiculous beliefs in life though, so it's understandable when people fortify their minds with it. What you've said, in less ridiculous terms is that "god is a projection of yourself". You are reborn in that projection. Good for you.

God is a summary answer for all open ended questions, that forms a place for people to cull their emotional needs regarding whatever bothers them. It's a mental construct, subjectively adapted to serve the ego of the individual. This serving of course, can be in the form of "you serve it" in your subjective skew of things... but really it is serving you, to allow you to deal with whatever needs spawned its inception in your you. Perhaps you have an altruistic bent that couldn't be justified without presuming "god", there are a gazillion reasons to adopt it and obviously, people do every day.

It's funny though how people like you claim "it's a thing you have to do for yourself" without recognizing the logical progression and limitations that really, it's just you (at least you have no way to know otherwise). You seek approval outside of you, as if your insecurity must be justified objectively, such that it can be soothed subjectively.

Strange that, but it makes sense.

 

[superluminal]

I think wes hit it on the mark. And I posted this a few pages ago:

I think that self-fulfilling wishes are very easy for many humans. And the supporting interpretation of events (signs) can be explained by this psychological wish fulfillment mechanism.

IMHO.

God, in the way Lori speaks of it (him?), is indeed a circular construct. But I'm certain she's not lying. This is how she feels, and puts a name to it - God.

Lori,

The issue I have with your assertion of "Ask and ye shall recieve" is that it is circular. By your description you have to believe to begin with.

I'm curious. When you "Asked" did you already believe in god in the casual way many people do (Yeah sure. I beieve there's a god...)? But things were still shitty and you broke down and asked him to take your life in his hands?

In other words, were you "primed" at the start?