Ooh - good comeback. Do you have anything of substance; I mean other than what the voices tell you?
Why Hell?
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does not speak of inability to help (see #1)
#1 feed the hungry,
doesn't this include helping them to not become homeless?(help with rent and bills)
alot of churches try to do this, but the needs exceeds the donations, so with so many asking for money and their being so little to share the church is forced into a discretionary role. (i suppose the same applies if you change out the word 'church' and put 'people')
#2 welcome strangers,
i did that once..put him up for the night,he left a mess in my daughters bed (she was out of town for awhile)..eww
#3 clothe the naked,
i got a pile ready to go..
#4 attend the sick,
so if i spend enough attention on how bad i am messed up, does that count?(jk)
#5 visit those in prison:
they prefer conjugal visits.
(is that spelled right?)
Ooh - good comeback. Do you have anything of substance; I mean other than what the voices tell you?
perhaps if you were actually interested in what the book has to say, you'd know that it refers to the voice of god (the holy spirit) communicating with people all the time.
i read the scriptures, but don't necessarily agree with all of the embellishments and interpretations given.
and yeah, i do. based on what i see of the environment that we create for ourselves here on earth, yes i do.
I like to slice the Bible up with an exacto knife, and extract it's messages like fortune cookies.
People should trust the Bible above other religious scriptures because you "studied and compared the major religions and philosophies"?
I so wish you would take this up with Jan Ardena or Lightgigantic!
I was referring to God. I wasn't thinking specifically of the Christian god, but just God.
By "a typical Christian attitude" I am referring to the belligerent tone in your comment.
I have not indicated that; I have only said that I find blind faith repugnant.
Yes, and this "scientific logic" apparently means to twist around what people say.
I have read the Bible, I grew up among Christians, I went to church, I had Christian friends.
You're "being a Christian" ...
If someone doesn't kill you, it means that they love you?
If you don't kill someone, this means you love them? And they owe it to you to believe you love them if you don't kill them?
Really? How do you know that? Are you omniscient?
So this means I will burn in hell for all eternity?
Forever? For a finite action, they get infinite punishment?
Signal's on fire!
Nice discussion guys.
Allow me to chip in by addressing the OP.
All these thoughts lead to a simple and straight picture. The existence of hell (or heaven) is as possible as the underpants stealing gnomes. Its all make-believe to strike the fear of punishment into the god-fearing.
Where is a good case for its existence other than unreliable scriptures?
What is problem in admitting we don't know?
It's the fear of the unknown that triggers the believe in reward-punishment mechanism.
Hitler isn't burning in hell, it's sad there isn't one for him to burn in.
It also makes me think if all this hell business is true, would we keep our brains after we die? That's the only way we would feel 'pain' and 'heat'.
Nice discussion guys.
Allow me to chip in by addressing the OP.
All these thoughts lead to a simple and straight picture. The existence of hell (or heaven) is as possible as the underpants stealing gnomes. Its all make-believe to strike the fear of punishment into the god-fearing.
Where is a good case for its existence other than unreliable scriptures?
What is problem in admitting we don't know?
It's the fear of the unknown that triggers the believe in reward-punishment mechanism.
Hitler isn't burning in hell, it's sad there isn't one for him to burn in.
It also makes me think if all this hell business is true, would we keep our brains after we die? That's the only way we would feel 'pain' and 'heat'.
No, I believe in God because of what I have studied and discerned. Everyone gets to do as they please and decide for themselves. You too.
Okay, so it sounds like you've narrowed your belief down to one God and not a pantheon of gods. See, I didn't know this before.
Which comment?
Okay, now I get it ... you've read the Bible, which I didn't know before.Signal said:
I only thought that you would not do something that you found repugnant.
I would never say this, but do I get to say that you offend me by you not being a Christian? I would never say this, of course, because it's not true. You don't offend me. Why would it offend me? But would you allow this offensiveness to go both ways? Is it a two-way street, or is it only PC to beat on the Christians?Signal said:
What about Muslims? Do you want to tell Muslims that Islam and them "being Muslims" offends you? Would you go to Mecca and shout it in the middle of a suq (a marketplace)? Would you tell them that their Shari'ah laws, honor killings, burqas, child brides, etc offend you?
Huh?? I have no idea where this "kill"ing stuff comes from.
No one owes me anything for any reason. Who am I that someone would owe me something? No one owes me anything, and I want to make that point quite clear. No one owes me anything. Period. We're all grownups here, and we feel, think and do as we please.
Again, that's what I believe because I believe in the Christian faith. Otherwise, hey ... we can do as we want because we're coming back to give it another try. It's like the movie Groundhog Day -- rob a bank one day, get laid the next, get hit by a train, jump to your death, pig out on pastries, etc. Have you seen the movie?
Well, actually, because you've said you read the Bible, then you do know God; therefore, your eternal resting place would depend on the second clause: repenting and following Christ.
Yup, people like Hitler get infinite punishment. There are no make-up exams or extra-credit projects or summer school. The semester is over, and the final grade is ... uhh ... final.
Look Signal, you've read the bible, and you've made your decision. I cannot convey anything more than what the Bible says. If you have questions, I'll try to answer them; otherwise, I don't have anything else to say here.
How are you so sure? Know something we don't?:scratchin:
It's what I conclude from what I believe. I don't need to explain the difference between to know and to believe, because it's readily available in dictionaries. I know the difference, and I believe you do too.
It's what I conclude from what I believe. I don't need to explain the difference between to know and to believe, because it's readily available in dictionaries. I know the difference, and I believe you do too.
Fair enough.
But your believing it doesn't make it true.
I know you know that.
we have a winner..
And yet you made claims about me.
The one who considers himself superior is playing the victim, huh?
More victim playing by those who have seen the light?
From Christians, who lower the standards of love so much that any kind of indifference gets to pass as "love".
And so per God's will!
Have you seen the whole movie?
I do not know whether I know God or not.
But that, characteristically, does not mean anything to a Christian ... !
Defining my world for me, huh? No, I have not "made my decision".
Oh, yes, you can, and yes, you should. If you were human.
Even more victim playing by those who have seen the light?!
But perhaps "religious tolerance" indeed means 'to let everyone say they are right and not oppose them in any way'.
Because there are things that we do know, and that give us some reasons to extrapolate.
Is there any scientific evidence for this claim?
Fair enough. With so many possibilities, anything could be right or everything wrong or some and so on.
No, no scientific evidence for this claim at this moment. It's my opinion.
But can you extrapolate the reason for this belief without any evidence? This seems the best to me.
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You said that reading the Bible or associating with Christians is repugnant to you. I figured that you don't do things that you deemed repugnant.
Why would I be superior? I have my beliefs, you have yours. In fact, by believing in Christ, I realize I've committed more sins than if I inspected myself from a non-Christian perspective. Ask questions about the Bible, and I'll try to answer them.Signal said:
I simply wondered how far the repugnance extends. So I ask you -- Do you find repugnant: honor killings, the "acid treatment", female genital mutilation, child brides and forced marriages?Signal said:
Well then, they're not really Christians, are they. They're hypocrites. Christians can't be painted with a broad brush. On this indifference, someone may have tried to convince you that indifference passes for love, and they may get some people on earth to believe/accept it, but they won't pass the muster with Christ. That is, they will suffer for all eternity.Signal said:
Yes, I own the movie on DVD, and I've seen the whole movie plenty of times. Very powerful.Signal said:
I know plenty of Christians who would love you, especially because there seems a horrible amount of hurt in you.Signal said:
You said that reading the Bible and associating with Christians is repugnant to you. So, this "not made my decision" statement shows a different side of you.Signal said:
For Christians, the Bible is the ultimate authority. I cannot give you any other assurances about eternity than what's in the Bible.Signal said:
lets see the response if the attacks were on a minority person, lets attack gays and see how well that is accepted..
it seems humanity always has to have a scapegoat, this day and age it is the christian (not without merit,but unacceptable none the less)
But perhaps "religious tolerance" indeed means 'to let everyone say they are right and not oppose them in any way'.
yes let them SAY whatever they like..its when they try to force their beliefs that cause problems.(doesn't matter right/wrong when something is forced)
oppose the force, not the talk..
i have always wondered..if it is truly right and true,wouldn't it have less opposition?
Yeah, right. More like Christians can dish it out but they can't take it. Gays are attacked by Christians A LOT. In fact they attack a lot of folks they don't see as "holy". Now you want to bellyache that it's done to you guys?