Why Hell?

NMSquirrel said:
so if it is unknown why would you look for it in the known pile?
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Huh?
Are we looking in the "known pile"?

:shrug:
just saying, the ppl still exist, its the description that changes..
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Um, no.
If we know then those who accept the fact will no longer be agnostic (because they know) nor atheist (since, knowing, we can show that he does exist). Anyone after that claiming to neither know nor believe (presumably a minority) will be cranks (you know, like those who claim the Earth is flat despite the evidence otherwise).
 
Dywyddyr said:
Huh?
Are we looking in the "known pile"?
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well..atheist tend to look there..(God doesn't exist if he is not known)

Um, no.
If we know then those who accept the fact will no longer be agnostic
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but not..
"If we know then those who accept the fact will no longer be."

the person still exists. 'Who they are' changes, constantly and frequently,to limit a person to a label (he is just a <label>) is irresponsible to your own knowledge base.
 
NMSquirrel said:
well..atheist tend to look there..(God doesn't exist if he is not known)
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ER, didn't you ask "what if god is natural?" Science looks at the natural...

but not..
"If we know then those who accept the fact will no longer be."
the person still exists.
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But will no longer be agnostic nor atheist. Or are you claiming that theists are currently agnostics and atheists, just with a different "label"? ;)
 
NMSquirrel said:
lets see the response if the attacks were on a minority person, lets attack gays and see how well that is accepted..

it seems humanity always has to have a scapegoat, this day and age it is the christian (not without merit,but unacceptable none the less)
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Anyone who claims to know The Solution, The Way, The Truth
should be subject to scrutiny.

Whether they be Christians, Hindus, Muslims, humanists, GreenPeace acivists, whomever or whatever.

It is claiming to know The Solution, The Way, The Truth that puts the claimant into the special position of greater responsibility.


Words still mean something, at least to some people. Don't think you can just get away with it with some "everyone is right in their own way" or some such nonsense.
 
praty said:
Fair enough. With so many possibilities, anything could be right or everything wrong or some and so on.

No, no scientific evidence for this claim at this moment. It's my opinion.
But can you extrapolate the reason for this belief without any evidence? This seems the best to me.
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I have no idea how people have come to believe in the beforelife and afterlife.

But I do not think that people just make things up.
 
NMSquirrel said:
and science dismisses God as being natural because they can see and measure the natural..
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Then either he's not natural or we haven't found him yet (and if we haven't found him there's no point speculating). :p
 
Cifo said:
I know plenty of Christians who would love you, especially because there seems a horrible amount of hurt in you.
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Really? They would love me for the "horrible amount of hurt in me"?

Well, in that case, they can just go screw themselves, as I will not be someone's opportunity for their delusions of grandeur.


jesus-facepalm.jpg
 
Signal said:
Cifo said:
A warning in Luke 16 from Christ:
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You yet need to establish the universal authority of the Bible.
I suggest you start a thread.
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Christ talking about hellfire is on point in this thread entitled "Why Hell?" If Hell was Club Med, we wouldn't be having this discussion. The Bible was established as the universal authority about Christ over 1,500 years ago. The revisionists are the ones who lack authority.

So, Signal, I find honor killings, the "acid treatment", female genital mutilation, child brides and forced marriages both ungodly and inhuman. What about you?

Socratic Spelunker said:
Christ [...] borrowed it from the Gemara Babylonicum. [...] If, by borrowing pagan doctrine, one says that He sanctioned it as truth, than we must also say that he [...]
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No. If I recite Aesop's fable about the fox and the stork to emphasize the moral of treating others as you want to be treated, it doesn't mean that I sanction all Aesop's fables as truth. Socratic Spelunker, if I agree with one of your comments, it doesn't mean that I agree with all of your comments.

Other instances are the Biblical prophets themselves, most of whom uttered certain prophesies on certain occasions and are not known as being prophetic throughout their lives. Another case in point is the book of Jude, which quotes a prophesy by Enoch, but does not mean that all that Enoch uttered was prophetic or even Biblical (which is why nothing of Enoch is in the Bible).
 
Cifo said:
Christ talking about hellfire is on point in this thread entitled "Why Hell?" If Hell was Club Med, we wouldn't be having this discussion. The Bible was established as the universal authority about Christ over 1,500 years ago. The revisionists are the ones who lack authority.
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It is not established that Christ, the Bible or Christianity are the authorities on reality.


So, Signal, I find honor killings, the "acid treatment", female genital mutilation, child brides and forced marriages both ungodly and inhuman. What about you?
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Oh, it looks like you think I am (pro) Muslim or (pro) Hindu?
 
The basis for heaven and hell is connected to law of good and evil. Laws of good and evil are unique in terms of data storage within the human brain, since each such law will make use of two opposite emotional valences at the same time. Law tells us what not to do, and will make use of "fear" of punishment as a deterent against breaking the law. The same law will also tell us or imply the proper path to follow, that will bring us peace, security, and acceptance relative to culture.

Because these two emotional valences are opposite; fear/peace, the brain will store laws of good and evil data into two connected mirror locations each with its opposing emotional valence. The sum of all the laws of good and evil will populate the two mirror locations. The fear tone associated with one mirror location is symbolically called hell, while the peace and security location is called heaven.

For example, hell is traditionally occupied by all the fearful behavior connected to the fear side of the law. In hell there are killers, thieves, rapists, pain, suffering, ugly, punishment, etc. This data grouping has an impact on the neural energy economy, since it is not a natural part of the brain, but is a conditioned data induction.

Because this is not natural, this mirror lcation sets a potential in the brain connected to fear; fight/flight. This is why those who are too self righteous often do the very things they are against. The induction potential gets so strong, due to reinforcement, it starts to spontaneously depotentiate causing personality dynamics mediated via the imagination. The dark days of the church had too much fear in their laws of good and evil. The spontaneous release of potential resulted in atrocities.

Before Christ died on the cross, he preached doing away with law for righteousness in an attempt to remove the binary data induction caused by laws of good and evil. He reduced law to love God and love your neighbor. This was hardly a good data set to induce the mirror world of fear. Only a few hundred people were able to master this new POV. As history shows more laws of good and evil were added to increase potential.

The problem then and now, with getting rid of law of good and evil is a potential is already set within the brain before you begin. Without law, the short term effect is the path of least resistance and/or the highest potential reduction impulses. This would make lawlessness much worse, in the short term, until the potential is used up. Most people at the time of Christ, stayed with law to avoid this unsettling short term effect.
 
Signal said:
Anyone who claims to know The Solution, The Way, The Truth
should be subject to scrutiny.
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i think the problems begin when that person claims their way is the ONLY way..all others are wrong..yes maybe it is..for them, just because God wants it a certain way in your life, does not mean God wants it the same way in my life....

and scrutiny, yes..devalued,no. just cause you don't see the value, does not make them worthless..

Whether they be Christians, Hindus, Muslims, humanists, GreenPeace acivists, whomever or whatever.
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i question your association of non-religious groups with religious groups?

It is claiming to know The Solution, The Way, The Truth that puts the claimant into the special position of greater responsibility.
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greater responsibility being salvation?
how can a human promise salvation? (humans don't make that decision,God does.)
claiming their way is the ONLY way,is a giant red flag for me..(God is the only way)


Words still mean something, at least to some people. Don't think you can just get away with it with some "everyone is right in their own way" or some such nonsense.
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why is it nonsense?
if you were standing in a field looking at a rock you would describe it as you see it, you cannot see behind the rock from where you are, so you do not have a clear picture of what the rock looks like unless there is someone else standing behind the rock describing to you what the rock looks like to him, this gives you a clearer picture of what that rock truly looks like, but then the image you have of that rock is still not complete as you only have the description the other person gave you,incomplete compared to what the rock really looks like..

God is like that.. We each have a picture of what God is,our own personal perspective,the face that he shows me is not all there is to him,the face he shows you is different, it is from your perspective, that does not necessarily make it wrong because you see God different than I.(generic 'you', does not mean you personally Signal)
I say 'necessarily' because if you think God is telling you to 'force' others to believe as you do, you are wrong.


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Dywyddyr said:
Then either he's not natural or we haven't found him yet :p
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lol..didn't we start here?

(and if we haven't found him there's no point speculating).
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um..why would you say such a thing? there is so many things wrong with that statement..
speculation is a scientific corner stone, why would you give a reason to dismiss it?
its like your saying 'we haven't found the truck keys, so lets quit looking'..
 
Dywyddyr said:
Originally Posted by wellwisher
The basis for heaven and hell is connected to law of good and evil.
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Please show that there actually is a "law of good and evil".
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first you intone there is no actual law..which intones that the only place the laws exist is within ones own head..

Laws of good and evil are unique in terms of data storage within the human brain
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Rubbish.
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then you call 'rubbish' when he says it is...
 
NMSquirrel said:
i read it as, we file things away in our brain as to good things/bad things,
why is that rubbish?
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Did you miss the word "unique"?
Do you think that "good" and "bad" are any differently "stored" in our mind than anything else?
 
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