Religion + migration poll

[Michael]

We're very polite to our foreigners even when they behave like turds. Its not samskara to humiliate a guest.

Also, they may have been embarrassed - but this was their doing. They embarrassed themselves. If they felt humiliated, then that was their doing as well. They were spoken to repeatedly. Jeesh, it's not like they were 5 years old, one was doing an MBA! He just didn't want to sit on the public seat and seemed happy to, on occasion, shower the bathroom in feces - do remember we had to even brush our teeth in there!

Come to think of it, embarrassment probably evolved primarily as a result of situations like this. Embarrassment also worked, they eventually stopped doing it too. So, it could be said that their self embarrassment was a good thing in the long run.

 

[S.A.M.]

I know how difficult it is for foreign visitors to use our squatting toilets in India and not having wipes but water to wash their arses with. Makes them very unhappy. So we installed a western toilet just for them. Thats the difference between your mentality and ours. You want to ridicule and embarrass people into doing things, we want to accomodate their differences. You think making people feel humiliated for being different is civilization, we see it as a sign of social backwardness and immaturity, of limited thinking, an inability to move out beyond your preconceived little boxes. The advantage for us was, when people got arthritis and stuff, it actually became a boon for them not to have to squat. Thats how such things work out.

A westerner will think, they are backward and I'm right, so they should change. An Indian will think, how interesting, another way of doing the same thing, lets try it.

 

[codanblad]

I know how difficult it is for foreign visitors to use our squatting toilets in India and not having wipes but water to wash their arses with. Makes them very unhappy. So we installed a western toilet just for them. Thats the difference between your mentality and ours. You want to ridicule and embarrass people into doing things, we want to accomodate their differences. You think making people feel humiliated for being different is civilization, we see it as a sign of social backwardness and immaturity, of limited thinking, an inability to move out beyond your preconceived little boxes. The advantage for us was, when people got arthritis and stuff, it actually became a boon for them not to have to squat. Thats how such things work out.

A westerner will think, they are backward and I'm right, so they should change. An Indian will think, how interesting, another way of doing the same thing, lets try it.

pull the other one. how's 'yay westerners have money, lets accomodate them so they come spend money here' as an explanation. or 'hey, sitting down is better than a hole in the ground, lets build some western toilets'.

as for ridiculing and embarassing people, the man couldn't use a toilet over an extended period. He's clearly not the sharpest tool in the shed. Was gonna continue tearing ur argument apart but ur clearly just trolling or deluded, its not worth my time.

 

[S.A.M.]

pull the other one. how's 'yay westerners have money, lets accomodate them so they come spend money here' as an explanation. or 'hey, sitting down is better than a hole in the ground, lets build some western toilets'.

as for ridiculing and embarassing people, the man couldn't use a toilet over an extended period. He's clearly not the sharpest tool in the shed. Was gonna continue tearing ur argument apart but ur clearly just trolling or deluded, its not worth my time.

Not every Indian is poor you know. I'm not. And my western visitors come stay with me for the free Indian food.

 

[John99]

Interesting how the last option moves up one ever day.

 

[w1z4rd]

Oh don't worry, I do believe their turn will come. "They" take turns after all, depending on which people they despise currently. Everyone gets a turn, from the native Americans to the Mayans to the Australian aboriginals. The Jews have just managed to hang on and are now playing the "if you can't beat them, join them" game, which has won them entrance into western society.

That is some pretty evil twisted stuff. I would like to point out that you are on step 7 of commiting genocide as per wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide

 

[S.A.M.]

That is some pretty evil twisted stuff. I would like to point out that you are on step 7 of commiting genocide as per wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide

Yeah I believe you, look at Iraq and Afghanistan. Abu Ghraib, Gitmo, Diego Garcia, Bagram.

 

[Michael]

I know how difficult it is for foreign visitors to use our squatting toilets in India and not having wipes but water to wash their arses with. Makes them very unhappy. So we installed a western toilet just for them.

Please, the dorms and Universities do a lot to accommodate foreign students. BUT they don't have the money and infrastructure to built and install squat toilets all over the campus. Also, I have used squat toilets, I didn't complain. I used water instead of paper - hey, I liked it. When I read the sign, don't carry your towel in front of your penis, please place it on your shoulder while in Onsen - guess what, over the shoulder it went. When I was asked to sit on my knees, on my knees I sat. When I was given fried sea slug, I ate it and asked for some dog. (unfortunately dog was not on the menu

IN short, when I visit countries I do my best to abide by their customs. AND, if someone asked me to please do something (like not shit on their floor where they shower and brush their teeth - then I wouldn't shit on the floor where they shower and brush their teeth). Simple as that.

One time a Chinese friend of mine shewed his finger nail off and spit it on my living room floor. I said, hey hey, pick that up, this isn't China. He apologized and didn't do it again. And when I was in his parents house in Nanjing, I didn't spit on his floor either. Actually, I ate what I was given, drank what I was offered and did my best to be on my BEST BEHAVIOR as anyone would do as a guest in a foreign country.

So, again, supposing installing squat toilets was not an option - what would YOU have done SAM?

Michael


Gee SAM, one can only imagine if some Royal Princes came to visit Indian Universities and they just happen to need a golden toilet seat to place their delicate derrière on ... Indian universities going to accommodate them .. paaaaLeeease.

 

[Michael]

Everyone gets a turn, from the native Americans to the Mayans

I'd just like to note that Mayans are native Americans

 

[S.A.M.]

Please, the dorms and Universities do a lot to accommodate foreign students. BUT they don't have the money and infrastructure to built and install squat toilets all over the campus. Also, I have used squat toilets, I didn't complain. I used water instead of paper - hey, I liked it. When I read the sign, don't carry your towel in front of your penis, please place it on your shoulder while in Onsen - guess what, over the shoulder it went. When I was asked to sit on my knees, on my knees I sat. When I was given fried sea slug, I ate it and asked for some dog. (unfortunately dog was not on the menu

IN short, when I visit countries I do my best to abide by their customs. AND, if someone asked me to please do something (like not shit on their floor where they shower and brush their teeth - then I wouldn't shit on the floor where they shower and brush their teeth). Simple as that.

One time a Chinese friend of mine shewed his finger nail off and spit it on my living room floor. I said, hey hey, pick that up, this isn't China. He apologized and didn't do it again. And when I was in his parents house in Nanjing, I didn't spit on his floor either. Actually, I ate what I was given, drank what I was offered and did my best to be on my BEST BEHAVIOR as anyone would do as a guest in a foreign country.

So, again, supposing installing squat toilets was not an option - what would YOU have done SAM?

Michael


Gee SAM, one can only imagine if some Royal Princes came to visit Indian Universities and they just happen to need a golden toilet seat to place their delicate derrière on ... Indian universities going to accommodate them .. paaaaLeeease.

Ever been humiliated anywhere for being different? Remember it? How was the feeling?

 

[Michael]

You didn't offer your solution.

Western Universities are VERY accommodating and we have a hell of a lot more money to be accommodating than in India, yet, IT is not possible to accommodate every need - squat toilets being one of them. Simply put, they did NOT have to embarrass themselves as they were polity asked to use the toilet properly. Only AFTER they continued to crap on the floors, walls, sides of sink (for brushing teeth), and etc.. were they restricted from using the toilet.

You know, there were people from China, Japan, Russia, South America, Africa etc... LOTS of places and lots of different people that used the toilets properly and THEY complained SAM. It wasn't just the evil Western students and dorms - it was people from all corners of the earth who all equally complained. No one wants to get up to take a shower or use the toilet to find it covered in crap. That will put just about anyone off.

So the Key was education.


As for embarrassment. Let me think. Once I was the only white Western guy in a group and found myself on the butt of every joke. I was kind of young at the time and maybe even took it personally. So, what I did was learn about those cultures and start dating one of the girls in that group. Soon I was ragging on white people was well

 

[Medicine*Woman]

Not every Indian is poor you know. I'm not. And my western visitors come stay with me for the free Indian food.

*************
M*W: S.A.M., you are repulsive. I don't like your Indian food. You've got to be kidding.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

Not every Indian is poor you know. I'm not. And my western visitors come stay with me for the free Indian food.

*************
M*W: I'd rather choke than eat Indian food. Been there, done that, made me sick. You make me sick. You're a liar on Indian food. Go figure.

 

[S.A.M.]

You didn't offer your solution.

Western Universities are VERY accommodating and we have a hell of a lot more money to be accommodating than in India, yet, IT is not possible to accommodate every need - squat toilets being one of them. Simply put, they did NOT have to embarrass themselves as they were polity asked to use the toilet properly. Only AFTER they continued to crap on the floors, walls, sides of sink (for brushing teeth), and etc.. were they restricted from using the toilet.

You know, there were people from China, Japan, Russia, South America, Africa etc... LOTS of places and lots of different people that used the toilets properly and THEY complained SAM. It wasn't just the evil Western students and dorms - it was people from all corners of the earth who all equally complained. No one wants to get up to take a shower or use the toilet to find it covered in crap. That will put just about anyone off.

So the Key was education.

How often does this happen?

Did they get "educated" sufficiently?

As for embarrassment. Let me think. Once I was the only white Western guy in a group and found myself on the butt of every joke. I was kind of young at the time and maybe even took it personally. So, what I did was learn about those cultures and start dating one of the girls in that group. Soon I was ragging on white people was well

Forgot the handshake that never happened, eh?

 

[Medicine*Woman]

Not every Indian is poor you know. I'm not. And my western visitors come stay with me for the free Indian food.

*************
M*W: You may have monetary resources, but Western peoples don't relish your toilet facilities. Most other humans don't like your stupid Indian food, even if it's free. You and your country of origin are deceivers. You are an embarrassment to other societies. We can talk all we want, and we can argue all we want, but it all boils down to Muslim Indians are liars. That's not me saying it... that is you saying it. You are the worst example of an Indian Muslim. What do they do to liars like you? You are totally evil.

 

[Michael]

You didn't offer your solution

How often does this happen?

There is apparently had happened enough to say it was a problem. I think even during orientation they tried to stress certain norms that should be observed.

Did they get "educated" sufficiently?

Apparently so.

Forgot the handshake that never happened, eh?

The unshooken hand.

That didn't embarrass me or her. (well maybe her, I don't know, for me I was put off).

But, the point about not shaking someone's hand is that this is an insult here. If we were in Lebanon then sure, I would need to learn (be educated) that it's not appropriate for me to shake a woman's hand in certain circumstances. And I'd be more than happy to oblige IF I chose to live there. If I chose to live in Japan I'd be damn sure to take my shoes off at the outside step every time. I think if I didn't and I instead said it's against my ways to take off my shoes - well, probably people would be put off by me walking around their hosue with my shoes on and probably they wouldn't invite me over again.

By not shaking my hand here, she is in essence insulting me. In turn she will be less likely to integrate successfully into the broader society. Something you seem to be missing. This intern will result in people thinking in an US versus THEM mode, which our tribal brain is more than willing to accommodate. Then, shit it's more than the walls and floor, it hits the fan.

So, again, what would your solution be? (please don't say built golden toilets)

Michael

 

[Michael]

Medicine*Woman,

Your going off the rails in a big way. Step away from the PC and come back after two days rest. really, it's not good to spend too much time here.

Anyway, I like Indian food. Vindaloo is yummy.

Michael

 

[S.A.M.]

So, again, what would your solution be?

Go back and read my first response to your post on this issue. As an Indian, I would accomodate them. Its not such a big deal to build a sunken toilet, believe me.

 

[Michael]

Oh please. I said that was not an option and it isn't. So, faced with limited funds and not having the option to build squat toilets all over the city - what are you going to do?

 

[S.A.M.]

Its not an option? Why? I have seen universities spend millions on constructing walkways for the handicap in buildings which are over a hundred years old.

In the east we have a saying, "jagah ghar mein nahin, dil mein hona zaroori hai" ie you need to make room not in your home, but in your heart. A university that spends billions a year csn't afford to accomodate the students that bring in the most money? What kind of service is that?