Islam & Science

[Igor Trip]

786. You are making the mistake of believing a vague statement in the Quran can be linked to complex modern science.

The verse says ”the two seas”, not any two seas.

Of the four verses using this phrase, two are definitely referring to fresh and salt water. The other two do not clearly state that they don’t. So I see no reason to believe they refer to something else.

What you have to do is prove a proper connection between the verse and science, not just a vague possible connection.

If the verse could refer to something known at the time then it probably does.


A better link.

http://maritime.haifa.ac.il/departm/lessons/ocean/lect17.htm

 

[7x7]

No - as I explained.

No?
Read this:

http://www.visembryo.com/baby/index.html,


Week 10: Brain structure of the fetus is complete and the brain mass increases rapidly (that dose not mean, fetus understand)

Week 22: Bones of the ear - hammer, anvil and stirrup - harden, making sound conduction possible. Fetus recognizes maternal sounds such as breathing, heartbeat, voice, and digestion.

Week24: Fetal brain waves begin to activate auditory and visual systems, both mouth and lips show more sensitivity.

Wek26: Forebrain enlarges to cover all other developed brain structures, while still maintaining its hemisphere divisions. (the forbrian, the center of thinking enlarges and complete)

There are many sources to prove I'm correct but 2 sources are enough, this one the one before.

7x7: Explain to me –

What does it mean to “hear”?

To “see”?

To “understand”?

what do you want? A medical explanation?
I can give you my explanation:
When I see something, then I'm seeing
When I hear words, then I'm hearing
When I solve a quiz, distinguish between things then I'm understanding and thinking.

I could have a eye and can't see, I could have and ear and can't hear and I could have a brain and can't understand

- So let me ask you, what do you think about the honey in the Qur’an now that you know it was well known for AT LEAST 1000 years before the Qur’an was written?

I have to ask you for more information. Did the Greek scientists mention about healing or just good for health?

I mean, if someone told me that the apple is very good for health (Vitamins), that dose not mean apple heals?

From you sentence:

Even Homer in The ancient Greeks believed that if bee honey is taken regularly human life could be prolonged. Early thinkers such as Homer, Pythagoras, Ovid, Democritus, Hippocrates and Aristotle mentioned that people should eat bee honey to preserve their health and vigor. Scientists of today accept Bee honey as an effective medicine for all kinds of diseases which can be used without side effects.

No mention to the word heals, just preserve the health (no mention of using it in curing).

No there is no evidence that the first three are any more real than the last three.

actually there is evident:

Based on the character of Moses = Israel nation (Jews religion) exists.

Based on the character of Jesus = Christian Nation\Religion exists.

Based on you myth stories of South America\arabia\europe\asia\africa = NOTHING EXISTS just a stories.

You believe (as atheist) that these nations existed from nothing (because ) you also believe you (as atheist) that human existed from nothing. (No creator) That is no evident because that what you believe or you are trying to convince your self.


You are completely wrong, there is HUGE different between HISTROY and MYTH.

The first three ended up in the Qur’an just as the Honey Verse did. They were taken from common Myth and Folk Lore around the Middle East and incorporated into the Qur’an. That simple. Anything other than that is just wishful thinking on your part.

Explain to me why the Chinese or Amercians or Japanese or Aborginals in AU do not have ANY of the stories found in the Qur’an / Middle East?

again, what you write is just based on your believes, you could not prove anything. For you, LIFE is just another myth story.

The difference being that there are contemporary buildings and works attributed to Alexander and this explains the rapid expansion and Hellenization of the Middle East - while on the other hand there are no contemporary evidence for any of the Mythical characters such as Noah, Mosses or Jesus. If there are please just list one for each thank you.

what do you want more than "NATIONS" exist based on those characters (you call them myth). You want buildings? Ha…very wired.

So if that’s the case then the explanation must be that all the other religions and myths are from Prophets sent to the Ancient Chinese and Americans and Japanese from Allah. Just that only the Arabic got it right? – funny that, and are you by any chance Arabic?

you are mixing up things here. God did not ask Arab to follow the idol worship.
When people followed the wrong path, god sent Prophet and Messengers to correct them.
You sentence is very meaningless. Judaism and Christians were CORRECT religions but people changed them (as we believe).

So are you telling me that an Arabic God that was represented by the moon and was called Allah was not worshipped in Arabia in pre-Islamic days? YES or NO?

Moon god?
I bet you have a crap sentences from those anti-islamic sites. You are waiting me to answer by NO to fill them here.

Arabs were idol worship but if you asked them who created them,earth, heavens, etc.. They would say ALLAH. So what was the problem?

The believed that idols bring them closer to Allah, idols would carry there prayers to Allah , praying for idols is the same praying for Allah and similar things.

Moon Allah? Never heard of it.
Maybe they mean ,
God\lord of moon is Allah
The god\lord of the sun is Allah
They god\lord of human is Allah
The god\lord of every creature is Allah.

Also, why is there a moon on above all else on Mosques?

I don't believe you are asking this….?

The moon is just the symbol Muslims invented it. It has Nothing to do with Islam really. Many Masjids do not have the moon on the top. It is just an architecture things Muslims used to it.

Beside , I believe it was first used to distinguish between the churches and mosques in several Arabic or Islamic countries where churches " architecture " are very similar to Masjids. It is not essential thing in Masijd or a must. Muslim can pray in the desert under the sun.

 

[7x7]

The sun is not going to park. If you were to ask a astronomer to mark on a map of the stars, which way we are going he would mark a point near Vega. It’s just a direction.
Please find me one site which says we will stop when we get there.

again it is not just the sun. it is the whole solar system, including milkey way.
no sources eaither say we are going back.

The apparent retrograde motion of the planets is just an illusion.
http://www.scienceu.com/observatory...etro/retro.html

you say illusion. But the Mars slowed down a lot and that was not an illusion.
What I wanted to say that if any planet came closer to earth then earth could slow down and maybe reverse rotation.

Are you seriously suggesting that Arabs were so ignorant that they didn’t even know honey was good for them?

again it is about healing, not just good for body. Fruits are good for body, but dose orange heals?

As both fly wings contain germs and germ killing chemicals, wouldn’t dipping the second wing just double the amount of both in the drink?
Can you give me one example of flies being used in medicine?

so when you dip, you kill the germs. The germ killer is stronger than the germs.
But that is not the issue, the issue that the fly contains both and that is TRUE.

They are some drugs that are extracted from "flies" wings. I don't have names right now but I know that they are very expensive.

 

[Igor Trip]

again it is not just the sun. it is the whole solar system, including milkey way.
no sources eaither say we are going back.

7x7. The Milkyway is not part of the Solar system, the Solar system is part of the Milkyway. The Solar system is just the sun and the planets. The Milkyway is the name of our galaxy.
http://cassfos02.ucsd.edu/public/tutorial/MW.html

We are not going back, we are going round in a circle. There is no known reason for us to stop.

you say illusion. But the Mars slowed down a lot and that was not an illusion.
What I wanted to say that if any planet came closer to earth then earth could slow down and maybe reverse rotation.

Please watch the animations at the bottom of the link I gave you.
The right one shows the true motions of Venus and Earth. The left one gives the apparent motion of Venus.

As for the variation in distance between Earth and Mars, both planets are going round the Sun at different speeds. So sometimes Mars is the other side of the Sun from us and thus far away. Sometimes it’s our side of the Sun and thus near us.
That I need to explain this to you shows just how poor your understanding of science is. Please read some books.
http://csep10.phys.utk.edu/astr161/lect/index.html

again it is about healing, not just good for body. Fruits are good for body, but dose orange heals?

Oranges can cure the disease scurvy. Ancient people were not ignorant. Arguing that they were won’t work.

so when you dip, you kill the germs. The germ killer is stronger than the germs.
But that is not the issue, the issue that the fly contains both and that is TRUE.

They are some drugs that are extracted from "flies" wings. I don't have names right now but I know that they are very expensive.

If the germ killer is stronger than the germs then you don’t need to dip the fly the second time and double the number of germs.

 

[path]

Igor this is hopeless. To quote an article from arabnews

Who taught our kids in schools not to be independent thinkers and free scientific researchers, and just follow set rules and thoughts?

and this little quote

My fellow Saudis, ladies and gentlemen, unless we own up to our mistakes, we will just stand by as the world moves on at light speed, play victim, blame foreigners, pray for an easy victory over our enemies, and wait for a savior or a God-made miracle.

The article isn't about our discussion here in particular but it seems to capture the flavor.

article

 

[Igor Trip]

Igor this is hopeless. To quote an article from arabnews



and this little quote



The article isn't about our discussion here in particular but it seems to capture the flavor.

article

Ah but Path, at the time of writing, there were 135 guests on this board. It’s these people I’m trying to convince, as well as 7x7.

 

[(Q)]

Igor

You're doing a good job. Keep it up.

7x7

It is not fair you play the "Anti-Islamic" card merely because you deem it as such.

 

[path]

7x7 could you just give us the scientific miracle found herein because frankly this just confuses me

Sunan Abu-Dawud, Book 1, Number 0203:
Narrated Ali ibn AbuTalib:

The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) said: The eyes are the leather strap of the anus, so one who sleeps should perform ablution

and this one does it apply even if you just take a little nap, I mean how quick can satan climb into my nose

Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 54, Number 516:
Narrated Abu Huraira:

The Prophet said, "If anyone of you rouses from sleep and performs the ablution, he should wash his nose by putting water in it and then blowing it out thrice, because Satan has stayed in the upper part of his nose all the night."

Now seriously here is one that is easy to attach a scientific miracle to because there is SOME truth in it

Sunan Abu-Dawud, Book 1, Number 0248:
Narrated AbuHurayrah:

The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) said: There is sexual defilement under every hair; so wash the hair and cleanse the skin.

OK last one this may be more difficult than the previous but a little imagination can go along way.

Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 54, Number 509:
Narrated Abu Huraira:

The Prophet said, "Yawning is from Satan and if anyone of you yawns, he should check his yawning as much as possible, for if anyone of you (during the act of yawning) should say: 'Ha', Satan will laugh at him."

 

[Michael]

Week 22: Bones of the ear - hammer, anvil and stirrup - harden, making sound conduction possible. Fetus recognizes maternal sounds such as breathing, heartbeat, voice, and digestion.

What does it mean: recognizes maternal sounds?

recognize from the Webster Dictionary stems from the meaning: "To Know".

Geez 7x7, almost sounds like understanding???

So we see that by using your very own sentences it can be demonstrated that the argument you are trying to formulate is wrong. Your own sentence says that the child MUST, by definition, have understanding prior to hearing or seeing!

What else do we have here?

When I see something, then I'm seeing
When I hear words, then I'm hearing
When I solve a quiz, distinguish between things then I'm understanding and thinking. I could have a eye and can't see, I could have and ear and can't hear and I could have a brain and can't understand

Good then we agree 7x7, you see/hear IN SIDE your MIND.

But I like your inclusion of the quiz! AKA: when I have a cell that will become an ear then I have an ear, when I have an eye that can see then I have an eye, when I can do advanced math’s standing on my head while singing well ONLY then I can understand. SEE I told you Michael – the Qur’an is perfect!

Too funny!

Yup, anything can mean anything. And with this, certainly does.

Anyway, have you completely given up on your original argument - about the primordial structures? I want to know if we are in agreement that the Brain (whose structures are first visible at 18 wk) begins development prior to the eye and ear (Wk 22)?

I have to ask you for more information. Did the Greek scientists mention about healing or just good for health?

Haaa you are truly facetious! Did you see the LIST of famous Greeks?

Geez you're stretching for ANYTHING HERE aren’t you?

Yes, the Greeks, Chinese, Romans, Egyptians and many other ancient peoples used to spread honey on wounds to hasten the healing processes.

Zumla A, Lulat A., Honey--a remedy rediscovered J R Soc Med. 1989 Jul;82(7):384-5,

So yes the Qur’an JUST COPIED this information and made it seem to be some new revelation. And it worked – you were after all fooled into believing it. And, even now, you are trying to find any sort of discrepancy to make it seem as if the Qur’an is somehow proposing a revelation with honey. Sorry 7x7, that’s just not the case and we both know it.

Based on the character of Moses = Israel nation (Jews religion) exists.

Based on the character of Jesus = Christian Nation\Religion exists.

Based on you myth stories of South America\arabia\europe\asia\africa = NOTHING EXISTS just a stories.

This is just plain obtuse.

Dum-dee-dum-dum-dee-dum . . .

Based on the character of Shiva = Hindu Nation\Religion exists . . . .

Dum-dee-dum-dum-dee-dum . . .

Based on the character of Athena = Greek Nation\Religion exists . .

Dum-dee-dum-dum-dee-dum . . .

Based on the character of Jesus = Christian Nation\Religion exists . . .

As I said, provide some evidence, I see you haven’t. And I can tell you now – outside of some new discovery that happened overnight – you are not going to find it. But, I’ll leave the opportunity open – find some contemporary evidence for each of these characters and I'll say they may have existed. I hop eyou can now see that the "evidence" you’ve presented thus far say they are no more real then Shiva, Zeus, or the Tooth Fairy!!

Moon god?

Was Allah the name of a God that was represented by the Moon in Arabia?

The moon is just the symbol Muslims invented it. It has Nothing to do with Islam really.

OK then why is it above all else on many Mosques?

It must be a coincidence that Allah was a moon God in Medina and the Moon is a Symbol above all else on many Mosques? OR, as you said, it means nothing - the fact that Allah was represented and worshipped as a moon god before Islam and the Moon is at the TOP of many Mosques is just plain a coincidence and has no meaning.

Sure it is.

One Big Coincidence.

Then, I wonder, why does someone go to all the trouble to put that Moon up there above all else on the house of worship? Hmmm as you said (and I said before) I am an atheists. All I do is observe and come to a conclusion.

I see a Cross above all else on a church. I assume, well it must have some meaning. I look into it and I find out Jesus died on a Cross. Well well - - I come to the conclusion that the Cross must be the symbol of Christ?

Right?

At least for Christians. (I'm atheist and don't think there ever was a Jesus - it's all BS to me). Anyway . . . . .

I see a Moon above all else on a Mosque. I assume, well it must have some meaning. I look into it and I find out Allah was worshipped as a Moon god. Well well - - I come to the conclusion that the Moon must be the symbol of Allah?

But maybe I’m wrong. The moon has no meaning. Just because Allah was worshipped as a Moon God is just a coincidence.

And as for the Moon symbol way up on a Mosque – well it just floated up there on it’s own and who knows why it’s there.

It just is.

Oh and it has no meaning.

Although one would think it would (being right at the top and all) well it doesn’t.

PS: Sorry about the sarcasm, but I hope you can see why I am a bit surprised that the Moon Symbol WAY up on the VERY top of the top of the top of the Mosque is just there for no good reason and no meaning and certainly no relationship to the fact that Allah was worshipped (incorrectly or not) as a Moon god (That has nothing to do with it being there). As a matter of fact it’s JUST THERE for NO REASON, strikes me as a little disingenuous.

 

[7x7]

7x7. The Milkyway is not part of the Solar system, the Solar system is part of the Milkyway. The Solar system is just the sun and the planets. The Milkyway is the name of our galaxy.
http://cassfos02.ucsd.edu/public/tutorial/MW.html

We are not going back, we are going round in a circle. There is no known reason for us to stop.

Ok my mistake, the solar system is included in the Milkyway.

I want to make notice, or lets say a question?

Is the moving towards solar apex is the same rotation about the milkyway?

In computer graphics for example, there are 2 tools. One is Move and other is Rotate?

Check out this:

Jon from USA asks:

Could you send a picture of the Milky Way showing the stars of the Zodiac & Sun, with directions such as the center of the galaxy, area we are heading to, where we have come from? Thank You.

A:You do not ask for the Sun's position on a specific date therefore I have marked it on the diagram for today, December 16th. 2003. The ecliptic line you see on the diagram is the sun's path through the Zodiacal constellations throughout the entire year. The Apex of the Sun's way (where the Sun and Solar System are heading)is to be found in the constellation of Hercules. The Antapex (where the Sun has come from is in the constellation of Columba, the Dove. The centre of our galaxy is situated on the border of the constellations Scorpius, the Scorpion and Sagittarius, the Archer.

source:
cyberwitch.com


2 Questions for you:
Is sun moving?
is the sun will ever rest/settle like any other star? (if solar apex is wrong)

Please watch the animations at the bottom of the link I gave you.
The right one shows the true motions of Venus and Earth. The left one gives the apparent motion of Venus.

As for the variation in distance between Earth and Mars, both planets are going round the Sun at different speeds. So sometimes Mars is the other side of the Sun from us and thus far away. Sometimes it’s our side of the Sun and thus near us.
That I need to explain this to you shows just how poor your understanding of science is. Please read some books.

I didn't say that what is going to happen. I said special incidents happen all the time.

If the germ killer is stronger than the germs then you don’t need to dip the fly the second time and double the number of germs.

it is not like that.

Once the fly fall into you "food", dip it because one side contains the germs and the other contains the cure. That's simple.
If you notice how fly dip into a drink you would know that most of the times, it dip on it side. So one win inside and the other outside (that what I have seen).
So dip it all and kill the germs, since the germs killer are stronger.

Why to complicate things?

 

[7x7]

What does it mean: recognizes maternal sounds?

Geez , it seems you are using your own interpolation for things.
Geeez take these examples:

Animals recognize things, dose that means they THINK, UNDERSTAND

I can recognize things BY TOUCHING , I can recognize things by SEEING , yet that don't mean I understand or I think.

Crazy people also recognize their mothers, fathers and yet they can understand what mother and father are …

GEEEEZ Michael, you are fooling.

too funny

Yes, the Greeks, Chinese, Romans, Egyptians and many other ancient peoples used to spread honey on wounds to hasten the healing processes.

Again that proves nothing, prophet recommended the honey for many diseases, not for wounds
And the funny thing is , your story about Ibn Kelada , it proves it.

You mentioned part of the story only which is , that prophet asked Ibn Kelada to cure his friend Saad. Ibn Kelada said, I don't know what wrong with him (or I find nothing wrong in him) , Saad had huge pain, prophet said bring him honey. He was cured after eating it. EVEN YOURS IBN KELADA did not cure him with honey.

Again, why don't you answer my question?
I'm posting it for the 3rd time:

WHY (as you are claiming) we have copied ONLY the correct information for Greek ancient medicine? Why ee did not take their mistakes?

I need an answer here?

As I said, provide some evidence, I see you haven’t. And I can tell you now – outside of some new discovery that happened overnight – you are not going to find it. But, I’ll leave the opportunity open – find some contemporary evidence for each of these characters and I'll say they may have existed. I hop eyou can now see that the "evidence" you’ve presented thus far say they are no more real then Shiva, Zeus, or the Tooth Fairy!!

what kind of evidences you want? Buildings?
Why some history books for you are correct and the others are wrong?

Again, for Moses, ask any jews, they can bring you evidence
For Jesus, as Christians, they are more familiar with his history, for us he is coming back and when he dose , then you will have you evidence.
For Muhammad, you don't need any evidence he existed. No one can deny it.

Maybe you should start a new thread about it, I not familiar with Jews and chriantain history very well. Maybe they can show you some buildings or other stuff.

Was Allah the name of a God that was represented by the Moon in Arabia?

if you have a text , fill it to answer it?
I'm not aware of MOON GOD?

OK then why is it above all else on many Mosques?

I have answered you. I told you it is kind of architected symbol. First used , long time after the prophet died. Could be used to distinguish Masjids (or mosques) from churches in new Islamic countries.
I told you it is not used above all Masjids, and we can pray in the desert under the sun.
Why I have to repeat my self.

But maybe I’m wrong. The moon has no meaning. Just because Allah was worshipped as a Moon God is just a coincidence.

I told you if you have anything about moon god in Arabia pre Islam. Bring it here. I don't have an idea what are you saying.
Arabs were idol-worship not others.

PS: Sorry about the sarcasm, but I hope you can see why I am a bit surprised that the Moon Symbol WAY up on the VERY top of the top of the top of the Mosque is just there for no good reason and no meaning and certainly no relationship to the fact that Allah was worshipped (incorrectly or not) as a Moon god (That has nothing to do with it being there). As a matter of fact it’s JUST THERE for NO REASON, strikes me as a little disingenuous.

I told you, we don not need any mosques to pray. We can pray at street, desert, home, a locked room, prison, etc…. The moon symbol above the masjid has no meaning to Muslims. But the moon is special in Islam, because our calendar based on it, where important events are based on it. Like Ramadan and Eid (our celebration day) nothing about worshiping the moon.

 

[Michael]

Geez , it seems you are using your own interpolation for things.

7x7, we started this part of the topic referring to primordial structures.

Which I THINK now we can agree that the brain develops before eye and ear? That is according to Professor Moore’s work anyway.

So THEN, you changed the meaning to be referring to actual “hearing” and actual “seeing”. Of course one can only hear AFTER the nerves connect the sensory parts of the ear to a brain. Presumably the brain MUST be able to “recognize” those particular nerve impulses as “hearing” – rather than say – “seeing”. If there is no brain to make such a distinction then there is only nerve impulse. AKA: No hearing taking place. Therefore, as I stated three pages back, there must by definition be a brain present PRIOR to hearing taking place.

So, to settle this second exploration of the same topic I’ll ask you this:

7x7,
1) Can an ear “hear” without a brain being present?

2) Can an eye “see” without a brain being present? Say a person cut their eye cut out of their head. Without being attached to a brain, does the eye still “see” stuff?

Again that proves nothing, prophet recommended the honey for many diseases, not for wounds

What are you talking about? Honey was given for many medical conditions; wound healing just being ONE of the many.

7x7, now knowing that honey was used medicinally for many medical conditions by virtually ALL ancient civilization for THOUSANDS of years before the Qur’an was written – do you agree that it was just common information around at that time?

Can you see why because the information was commonly known throught the world from Britan to China that, although being correct, it isn't miraculous?

WHY (as you are claiming) we have copied ONLY the correct information for Greek ancient medicine? Why ee did not take their mistakes?

I need an answer here?

Firstly, it isn't "we copied". You have done no copying. The Qur'an was around why befor 7x7! Someone else copied. Secondly, it'd good of you to admit that there is copying taking place.

To your question: I did answer this – I said the very topic we are talking about, ie: the stages in development, were and are wrong.

Even going back to your original argument of primordial development, Professor Moore places eye ahead of ear in his book. Which I cited if you are interested to look up sometime. So this is one of, I imagine, many things incorrect in the book.

Of course, if we go back to the “anything can mean anything”, then you can continue to reinterpret the Qur’an over and over until you finally get enough meaning out of it to say it is all correct. Remember me saying that? Remember you initially talking about primordial structures? Remember how that went by the way-side and now we’re talking about what it means to “see” and “hear”.

That’s called interpretation. And that's why the Qur’an, to me, is not miraculous. And you’re doing it right here as we type. And you know it. But you don’t seem to get what you are doing? Or you don’t care. Or it is impossible for you to look at the Qur’an objectively and thus you will continue to reinterpret the passage until hearing means the smallest primordial structure, seeing means 20/20 vision and understanding means doing calculus while standing on you’re head. And after that you will be satisfied that the Qur'an is perfect and scientific. But no one else will.

He was cured after eating it. EVEN YOURS IBN KELADA did not cure him with honey.

Firstly, what do you mean “my IBN KELADA”. IBN KELADA is some dead and gone person and bears no rapport with me.

Secondly, so what if one person offers one advice and another offers some other advice. I’m sure that the person you consider a godly Prophet was very clever maybe even genius? I’m sure that only the best of his deeds were recorded and put in the good-book/ Qur’an. That’s how deification works. To me it is no different then how Alexander of Macedonia was deified and then worshipped as a messenger of the gods/ a god / blessed by the gods - - - or the Japanese Emperor for that matter. It’s the same to me. To you these examples are miles away from your Prophet, you’re probably thinking it’s blasphemy for me to even consider such a concept – but if you were being objective you’d at least see some relationship between Alexander/The Japanese Emperor/Mohamed.

what kind of evidences you want? Buildings?
Why some history books for you are correct and the others are wrong?

What I am saying is that there are no records of these people at the time they supposedly lived these amazing God blessed lives. So I am not asking for historic books, I’m asking for contemporary evidence taken at the time they lived. The same sort of evidence that proves that Julius Caser existed does not exist for any of the Prophets I mentioned.

As such, the evidence you are using is no different that that used by Hindus to say Shiva exists.

Do you think Shiva exists?

Because acording to your rational for Jesus, the Goddess Shiva also exists.

I'm not aware of MOON GOD?

. . . .But the moon is special in Islam, because our calendar based on it, where important events are based on it. Like Ramadan and Eid (our celebration day) nothing about worshiping the moon.

OK, I understand. There are two different things here. (1) Moon God (2) Moon Calendar

As for (1) Moon God - I’ll try to find time to look for the information for you. Unless someone here happens to have some information they’d like to post

As for (2) Moon Calendar - Yes that does make more sense and may be the answer as to why Moons are on top of some Mosques.

But it could also be that both are true or one or the other - as one does not naturally exclude the other.

By the way thanks so far,
MII

 

[Igor Trip]

7x7.
Ok this is starting to get confusing.
This map appears to be 2 different maps placed on top of each other. They should have been kept separate.

The constellations are just the stars we see move across the sky at the equator as the Earth rotates. (The Earth moves not the stars).
The sun does not rotate around in a circle as shown. It’s the Earth going round the sun once a year. The circle shown is just the position of the sun as seen against the stars (if you could see the stars during the day).

http://www.windows.ucar.edu/tour/link=/the_universe/Constellations/constellations4.html&edu=high



As for the solar apex, as you don’t believe me I suggest you ask John.
Ask him if the solar apex is the just the direction we are going at the moment and whether it changes or if it is the suns final destination.


Yes the sun and all the stars are moving through the universe relative to everything else. There is no such thing as a stationary star relative to the universe.
According to Einsteins theory of General Relativity, all free moving objects in space are still relative to themselves but moving relative to everything else.
If you want an explanation ask in the “Astronomy, exobiology, & cosmology” forum.


The fly.
One side does not contain the germs and the other the cure.
Nor am I convinced that enough germ killing chemicals would be released to kill all the germs.

 

[7x7]

7x7, we started this part of the topic referring to primordial structures.

Which I THINK now we can agree that the brain develops before eye and ear? That is according to Professor Moore’s work anyway.

So THEN, you changed the meaning to be referring to actual “hearing” and actual “seeing”.

Well, yes I started with the primordial structures and it is my mistake, not quran.

I really thought that the word primordial refer to the nervous or the name of the nerve. I told you before that I face troubles with medical expression. They include words I can't find in dictionaries.

Of course one can only hear AFTER the nerves connect the sensory parts of the ear to a brain. Presumably the brain MUST be able to “recognize” those particular nerve impulses as “hearing” – rather than say – “seeing”. If there is no brain to make such a distinction then there is only nerve impulse. AKA: No hearing taking place. Therefore, as I stated three pages back, there must by definition be a brain present PRIOR to hearing taking place.

this is the third time I repeat this, Brain is not one mass , and you know it. Why you keep repeating this over and over. Brian presents first before hearing but we are talking about the area at brain that controls the understanding which is forebrain and forebrain develops after hearing and seeing.

A man can hear and see but can't understand, why? His forebrain is damaged.
A man can understand and think but can't hear or see, why? His forebrain is working but other masses of brain that controls the hearing and seeing are not.

It is very simple.
I have provided you with multiple sources that say, forebrain develops after hearing and seeing.

7x7, now knowing that honey was used medicinally for many medical conditions by virtually ALL ancient civilization for THOUSANDS of years before the Qur’an was written – do you agree that it was just common information around at that time?

about honey, I have asked you for names of diseases that ancient used to cure with honey, you provided me with "wounding" which is not a disease as far I know.
Anyway ancient civilization used lots of planets and other materials to cure people, the question is , all of them WERE REALY GOOD?

Quran mentioned the honey particularly and nowadays, science has proved that it can cure or heal many diseases without side effects.
To mention honey in particular in Quran has more than ancient civilizations.

The word "medical conditions" ? Is a general word. Specify if you have more details, i.e diseases names.

Firstly, it isn't "we copied". You have done no copying. The Qur'an was around why befor 7x7! Someone else copied. Secondly, it'd good of you to admit that there is copying taking place.

Honestly, there is no copying and no one copied any part in Quran. If honey has such great healing effects for men, then mentioning it in Quran gives Muslims an excellent cure to use.
Any thing mentioned in Quran that has benefits gives Muslim a confident to use it. Otherwise they would say another herbal from ancients.

Of course, if we go back to the “anything can mean anything”, then you can continue to reinterpret the Qur’an over and over until you finally get enough meaning out of it to say it is all correct. Remember me saying that? Remember you initially talking about primordial structures? Remember how that went by the way-side and now we’re talking about what it means to “see” and “hear”.

I have answered that top. It is my mistake I thought the word means nerve, I didn't mean it and I'm not looking for suitable interpretation until I'm satisfied that is wrong.

Firstly, what do you mean “my IBN KELADA”. IBN KELADA is some dead and gone person and bears no rapport with me.

A bad expression. I wanted to give you another proof that your words about prophet learning from Ibn kelada the medicine, and capturing all the information from him, are wrong.

What I am saying is that there are no records of these people at the time they supposedly lived these amazing God blessed lives. So I am not asking for historic books, I’m asking for contemporary evidence taken at the time they lived. The same sort of evidence that proves that Julius Caser existed does not exist for any of the Prophets I mentioned.

\
I told you I'm not familiar very well with the history if Jews and Christian. I'm sure they can provide you with examples if you asked this else where. There are many I believe but I don't have any.

There is Noah boat, which they claim that they found it at the top of the mountain like what Quran other religious books mentioned,. Is it or is not I don't have an idea.

Do you think Shiva exists?

Because acording to your rational for Jesus, the Goddess Shiva also exists.

I don't know who Shiva is honestly.

As for (1) Moon God - I’ll try to find time to look for the information for you. Unless someone here happens to have some information they’d like to post

As for (2) Moon Calendar - Yes that does make more sense and may be the answer as to why Moons are on top of some Mosques.

But it could also be that both are true or one or the other - as one does not naturally exclude the other.

Again the moon represents nothing in Islam beside the calendar where our events take place based on it. I can assure you that. Pre-islam I only they worshiped their idols only , nothing like moon or sun worship.


Last thing for you Michael, I want to ask you as physist to make experiments at the last bone of our backbone hierarchy and check if there any thing special in it. Or the cells that live on/in it. Or any other special medial aspect of this bone.

Don't ask me for any scientific data, I don't know any but this Bone is very special and it doesn't hurt to spend sometime on it.
It can give you some answers.

 

[7x7]

7x7.
Ok this is starting to get confusing.
This map appears to be 2 different maps placed on top of each other. They should have been kept separate.

it is confusing indeed, I want to know where is the rotation circle from solar antapex (where he sun was) and solar apex (where is the sun is moving to)?

As for the solar apex, as you don’t believe me I suggest you ask John.
Ask him if the solar apex is the just the direction we are going at the moment and whether it changes or if it is the suns final destination.

it is not the point I believe you or not. I found most of resources that say solar apex is a point and not a direction.
I didn’t mention any final destination. I said a settle place (A rest place)
The sun could settle for ever as part of direct movement not rotation ,if they are two, (I don't know) or for a while (I don't know) before it moves again.

Nor am I convinced that enough germ killing chemicals would be released to kill all the germs.

why to make things complex. The fly DOSE contains both germs and germs killing.

It is the same when you take couple bills of the drug that manages to kill millions of germs at your body.

 

[7x7]

sorry for late, i was busy and i might be busy also during this week.

 

[Igor Trip]

it is confusing indeed, I want to know where is the rotation circle from solar antapex (where he sun was) and solar apex (where is the sun is moving to)?

The view is from the earth and so is a side on view of our galaxy. You want a view from above the galaxy.

it is not the point I believe you or not. I found most of resources that say solar apex is a point and not a direction.
I didn’t mention any final destination. I said a settle place (A rest place)
The sun could settle for ever as part of direct movement not rotation ,if they are two, (I don't know) or for a while (I don't know) before it moves again.

But you don’t believe me so why not ask someone else? John Harper is a professional astronomer.
http://www.cyberwitch.com/Wychwood/Observatory/

The sun cannot be moving then settle and then move again. It’s against the laws of physics.

why to make things complex. The fly DOSE contains both germs and germs killing.

It is the same when you take couple bills of the drug that manages to kill millions of germs at your body.

Volume 4, Book 54, Number 537:
“Narrated Abu Huraira:
The Prophet said "If a house fly falls in the drink of anyone of you, he should dip it (in the drink), for one of its wings has a disease and the other has the cure for the disease." “

You are saying this is proof Muhammad was a prophet from God. So if it is not totally accurate it cannot be from God.
One wing does not have the disease and the other the cure as Muhammad states.

 

[anonymous2]

7x7, Mars retrograde motion is because both the earth and Mars are orbiting the sun, and since their orbits are different, at times the earth "overtakes" Mars. Mars is NOT actually "reversing course". Think of how we see the sun rise and set. Besides geocentrists, we know this is due to the earth spinning, not the sun actually revolving around the earth every 24 hours. This "retrograde" motion was known to people a long time ago, and "epicycles" were proposed to explain their movement (see Ptolemy). Now we know this motion is not caused by epicycles, but rather the differences in the orbit of Mars and the earth. This motion is not something just recently discovered, and there's nothing amazing about it, although if you didn't know the mechanics involved, it might seem amazing. Do a search on the net about it and you'll find it explained in great detail. It can easily be explained.

You apparently just don't understand how this works.

 

[Michael]

this is the third time I repeat this, Brain is not one mass , and you know it. Why you keep repeating this over and over. Brian presents first before hearing but we are talking about the area at brain that controls the understanding which is forebrain and forebrain develops after hearing and seeing.

Again, what does it mean to “see” to “hear”?

I think you’ll find you won’t see/hear much without your forebrain present huh

Also, Bye this new definition which is developed first the “eye” or “ear”?

Incidentally, what was the new definition again?

You will have to define what it means:

For: sight, hearing, and understanding
(i) what is it?
(ii) how does it come about?
(iii) where does it occur?
(iv) what day does it start?
(v) what is required for it to occur?

Brain is not one mass , and you know it.

It’s all in the definition.

Is the body one mass? Is the forebrain one mass? Is a neuron one mass? Is a protein one mass? Is a chemical one mass? Is an atom one mass? Is a proton one mass? Is a meson one mass? etcetera . . . .

A man can hear and see but can't understand, why? His forebrain is damaged.

True, if you are referring to a liberal sense of “understand”. It’s like saying: A person can hear and see but can not understand complex maths. Sure I agree. However, you are not talking about a liberal sense of understand. You are talking about ALL understanding. Think about the above questions again.

about honey

Look, 7x7, honey was used medicinally from China to Roma for a thousand years before the Qur’an was even an idea. It’s really that simple. It’s called writing down other peoples ideas and saying they’re from god.

Secondly, honey is not the cure all you make it out to be. Many people die every year due to anaphylactic shock caused by honey. What a wondrous God you worship. Tell people to use honey and make sure some people then die of it. So really it’s also as harmful as it is helpful!

Is it or is not I don't have an idea.

No there is no Noah’s boat on a mountain and the Jews and Christians have no contemporary evidence that their prophets where ever real. I wouldn’t have asked you such an important question like that if I hadn’t researched it prior.

But there are a lot of evidence that suggests that these prophets were completely make-believe. For example, many early Christians didn’t think there really was a Jesus character. Although they were still Christians. Funny huh? Ironically, I believe that the Qur’an says that the Mandeans are allowed to worship – and even they don’t think Jesus was a prophet from god! And that’s from the Qur’an!!

I can assure you that. Pre-islam I only they worshiped their idols only , nothing like moon or sun worship.

Idol worship doesn’t exclude moon and sun worship. It just means that the God (or God’s divinity - such as a divine stone) is symbolized via some object. I think pilgrims come to Arabia to walk around some special stone? I see no difference really. When I have time, I will look up the info. I am pretty sure that Allah was the name of a moon god worshipped in Medina and Mecca. And moon gods were worshipped all over the ME. Common really.

I want to ask you as physist to make experiments at the last bone of our backbone hierarchy and check if there any thing special in it. Or the cells that live on/in it. Or any other special medial aspect of this bone.

When I have some time I will look into it – I promise, at least literarily if anything.

 

[Michael]

The fly DOSE contains both germs and germs killing.

So what? All animals do! Even human animals - as I posted earlier!!