Islam & Science

[Michael]

The Honey

in Quran:

There issues From within their bodies A drink of varying colours, Wherein is healing for men. [Al-Quraan 16:69]

We are now aware that honey has a healing property and also a mild antiseptic property.

What do you mean, we are now aware? That almost sounds like it wasn’t known 2500 years ago! I know you’re not saying that – are you?!?!

The use of honey as a medicine was known and used by the Greeks 1000's of years prior to the birth of Islam. Even Homer in The ancient Greeks believed that if bee honey is taken regularly human life could be prolonged. Early thinkers such as Homer, Pythagoras, Ovid, Democritus, Hippocrates and Aristotle mentioned that people should eat bee honey to preserve their health and vigor. Scientists of today accept Bee honey as an effective medicine for all kinds of diseases which can be used without side effects. Today Bee honey is being given its due recognition due to two main factors: since some potent strains of bacteria are becoming resistant to antibiotics and due to the fact that people are experiencing some severe side effects to modern synthetic drugs. Bee honey plays an important part in medical cosmetics too. Hippocrates, the father of medicine comments on its ability to preserve the beauty and complexion of the skin. The 'Honey mask' is known to strengthen, soften and nourish the skin.

So, 7x7, which was it? The ancient Greeks looked into the future and copied the Qur’an or that the use of honey was common knowledge and the info was again copied into the Qur’an as if it was some new revelation bestowed from God?

I think the answer is obvious. Don't you?

Earlier I asked you:

1) Does the Qur’an tell a story of a flood and a man who is pre warned by god so he builds a boat and he and his family are saved – whereas other people, not warned by god, drown? Maybe there is a character similar to Noah in it?

2) Does the Qur’an tell a story of a character (maybe like Mosses) leading his people to freedom from servitude with the Pharaoh? (Does it include the parting of some waters?)

3) Does the Qur’an have a story in it about a Prophet from god being crucified on a cross by some Romans?

4) Does the Qur’an have a story about the Great Mother Earth and of a mythical time where, animals, plants, and humans understand each others' languages in which Spirit beings walk the earth openly and interact with human beings freely, sometimes helping, sometimes harming, sometimes mating with them?

5) Does the Qur’an tell a story of a cosmic egg containing chaos, where all opposites were intermixed – (hot and cold, man and woman, night and day . . . etcertra) . . . ?

6) Does the Qur’an tell a story of a time when the heavens and the earths were mixed together in a great cloud in which the lighter parts of the cloud rose up and became heaven while the heavier parts of the cloud descended and became an ocean of muddy water. Suddenly, between the heavens and the earth, a pale green sprout began to grow, it grew swiftly and was extremely strong. When the plant’s flower burst open, the First God emerged? Does the Qur’an tell that story?

You said YES to the first three and NO to the last three.

The first three are Legends from the Middle East and
The last three are from the Americans and Far East Asia.

All 6 of the stories have been found on stone thousands of years old.

So why did I ask?

Well, lets think about this - The Qur’an says that all people started from the same couple and worshipped the same god. You state that the Qur’an is the only correct book and that the original myth stories (aka other religions) have just been perverted.

Don’t you find it funny that ONLY Middle Eastern myth stories ended up in the Qur’an? Why didn’t the Far Eastern or American stories end up in the Qur’an? If all people started from the same spot you’d expect some retention of the real originals of man in other places outside the MIddle East? That is if you supposition is true.

Yet the farther you get from the Middle East the more the Myth stories are completely different. These Myth stories were written on stone thousands of years ago – and couldn’t be perverted – not unless stone can change what’s written on it!

So why is it that ONLY the ME retained the Myth Stories that became part of the Qur'an?!?!?!

Why Why Why . . . ?!?!

Again, like the honey, the answer is obvious.

The people that wrote the Qur’an coped stories from the region where they lived – The Middle East. So obviously American and Far Eastern mythology wouldn’t be included! The writers of the Qur’an hadn’t heard those stories before.

Wasn't a moon-god named Allah worshipped as the highest god at Medina - prior to Islam? Hmmmmmm . . . . And Allah is included in the Qur'an as the name of the God? Hmmmmm . . . .

 

[path]

Again Path, you are following the same rhythm. [The words meaning could be anything….]
So you don't believe they are true but you also don't have proves if they are wrong.

[All these are just coincidence, our interpolation, etc….]

Wired thing, imagine that the sun dose not move, and Muhammad wrote that phrase (of course he did not write any part of Quran) based on sunset and sunrise. What the situation could be?

The phrase is completely wrong. But it is not…There is sun and there is point going to?
So what are the chances that this could be true?
Give me another response, you have almost used this response for all.

7x7 the whole thing is based on fantasy and imaginative interpretations. If the quran was written by god then he would know all, no need to be vague or talk condesceningly to people because he would know that one day his most detailed scientific explainations would be understood by western science. But guess what 7x7 there isn't one concrete scientific sentence in the quran if there is and you want me to shut up then SHOW me 1 concrete scientific sentence (not "look this is amazing settled place means alpha lyrae in the such and such galaxy"). Show us 1 it is really getting annoying that you think we are as gullible as many muslims apparently are. In the words of a great western philosopher "put up or shut up"

 

[path]

Oh look another "scientific miracle" The mystery of WHAT the "settled place" mentioned in the quran really is

018.086
YUSUFALI: Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it set in a spring of murky water: Near it he found a People: We said: "O Zul-qarnain! (thou hast authority,) either to punish them, or to treat them with kindness."
PICKTHAL: Till, when he reached the setting-place of the sun, he found it setting in a muddy spring, and found a people thereabout. We said: O Dhu'l-Qarneyn! Either punish or show them kindness.
SHAKIR: Until when he reached the place where the sun set, he found it going down into a black sea, and found by it a people. We said: O Zulqarnain! either give them a chastisement or do them a benefit

Thank goodness that is finally cleared up

 

[Mal]

Something interesting i found:
http://www.submission.org/miracle/
http://www.submission.org/miracle/nebula.html

 

[path]

Something interesting i found:
http://www.submission.org/miracle/
http://www.submission.org/miracle/nebula.html

What is interesting about it it is a regurgitation of the same unfounded claims.

 

[786]

Oh look another "scientific miracle" The mystery of WHAT the "settled place" mentioned in the quran really is



Thank goodness that is finally cleared up

Amazing how you are saying this again. I think I already explained this to you, but I guess you chose to ignore it.

The verses are told from what the prophets "saw".

I can find many pictures where the sun is going down in the ocean. What do you think the Sun lies in the ocean? Absolutely not. But it is still true that I saw the sun setting in the ocean? But how can both be true? Either I am lieing that I saw sun setting in the ocean or I am telling the truth. What am I really doing Path? Am I lieing or telling the truth?

I think even you can observe the Sun setting down in the ocean. So does the sun really set in the ocean? I'll be waiting for your response.

Use some sense.
Peace be unto you

 

[786]

Here are examples.

Do you think I need to show you more examples or did I get my point through?

All of this is what you "see"
Those verses show what the prophets "saw".

Peace be unto you

 

[spidergoat]

Obviously it looks like it sets "in" the ocean, but if Mohammed were truly channeling God, he would write that it disppears BEHIND the curve of the earth.

 

[Igor Trip]

“it set in a spring of murky water”

I would have thought that “beyond the oceans “ would have been better.
The word “in” just doesn’t make sense

 

[786]

Obviously it looks like it sets "in" the ocean, but if Mohammed were truly channeling God, he would write that it disppears BEHIND the curve of the earth.

My friend how can I clearify this to you. I have said this many time. the verse if you read them are stating what the prophets saw. Not what God saw. It is what the prophets saw. When I look at the pictures I presented. It shows me that the sun is setting in the ocean. But obviously it is not true.

Again I repeat it is what the prophets "saw".

Let me try to give you an analogy.

Just suppose I was the prophet. Ok. now when I went to the ocean, I "saw" the sun setting in the ocean.

Ok you get that. God told Muhammad what the prophet "saw". The prophet didn't see the sun in the space, to which the earth is revolving around. He literally saw it setting in the ocean.

It is what the prophet precieved. I hope you understand now.

Peace be unto you

 

[Mal]

What is interesting about it it is a regurgitation of the same unfounded claims.

"Over it is nineteen." " We appointed angels to be guardians of Hell, and we assigned THEIR NUMBER (i.e.19) (1) to disturb the disbelievers. (2) to convince the Christians and Jews (that this is a divine scripture), (3) to strengthen the faith of the faithful, (4)to remove all traces of doubt from the hearts of Christians, Jews, as well as the believers, and (5) to expose those who harbor doubt in their hearts, and the disbelievers; they will say," What did God mean by this allegory ?" God thus sends astray whomever He wills, and guides whomever He wills, None knows the soldiers of your Lord except He. THIS IS A REMINDER FOR THE PEOPLE." 74:30-31

What do you mean?

 

[786]

“it set in a spring of murky water”

I would have thought that “beyond the oceans “ would have been better.
The word “in” just doesn’t make sense

As I said this is what the prophet saw.

I think this should help.

Igor what do you see in the picture?

First of all let me tell you. I want to know what you "see" not what you know.

Peace be unto you

 

[Igor Trip]

Igor what do you see in the picture?

First of all let me tell you. I want to know what you "see" not what you know.

Peace be unto you

I see the sun going down beyond the horizon.
I see no splash or steam or waves indicating the sun actually touching the sea.
When the sun goes down behind mountains, I know it’s behind the mountains. I’m not fooled into thinking it’s descending into the mountains.

 

[786]

I see the sun going down beyond the horizon.
I see no splash or steam or waves indicating the sun actually touching the sea.
When the sun goes down behind mountains, I know it’s behind the mountains. I’m not fooled into thinking it’s descending into the mountains.

Can you see beyond the horizon?

Peace be unto you

 

[Igor Trip]

Something interesting i found:
http://www.submission.org/miracle/
http://www.submission.org/miracle/nebula.html

Mal, a word of advice. Never trust a numerologist!

There is a claim that the word Month appears 12 times in the Quran. This is easily disproved.
A quick check here;
http://www.hti.umich.edu/k/koran/

Gives 7 month and 14 months (plus 2 added by the translator).
So how does 21 become 12?
The answer is that the numerologists decide the rules. They decide which words to count and which to discard and as they decide the rules, they can always get the right answer.

The number 19 miracle is questioned here.
http://www.answering-islam.org/Nehls/Ask/number19.html


The Cat’s eye nebula
There are millions of stars and galaxies in the visible universe. If you look hard enough you are bound to find something which looks like a red rose.

http://hubblesite.org/newscenter/newsdesk/archive/releases/category/nebula/

 

[Igor Trip]

Can you see beyond the horizon?

Peace be unto you

Yes I can.
The horizon is only the visible limit of the land and sea. It’s not the visible limit of the sky. Clouds, the sun, moon and stars can all be seen beyond it.

 

[786]

Yes I can.
The horizon is only the visible limit of the land and sea. It’s not the visible limit of the sky. Clouds, the sun, moon and stars can all be seen beyond it.

When you look at the Sun. Is the Sun inside or outside the sky.

Peace be unto you

 

[7x7]

They don’t say it will reach an end point and then stop. Don’t you think they would say if the world was going to come to a halt?

Not halt, the world is going to finish in Islam after judgment day. There is no mention that judgment day before or after the sun reaches that point. It says there is a settled place the sun is going to.
Not complicated.

Another link. Note the phrase “to a direction called "Solar Apex,"”. It does not say “point” or that we will stop when we get there.

a direction?

For example if I'm going to park, I'm going to take a road ends in the park.

I have read multiple sites, all saying a point not a direction. Beside I gave you a definition of solar apex:

Solar apex: the point on the celestial sphere toward which the sun and solar system appear to be moving relative to the fixed stars

Question; Just how settled is a settled place?

I don't know how they translate it.

Mostakar means (a settled place)
Istekrar means settle
Yastaker mean settled

Unless I don't know Arabic (my mother language)

So I don’t think we need worry about Judgement day for quite a while yet.

Don't relay on it. Special incidents happen all the time. I can give you an example:

Do you remember the mars couple of months ago when it came closer to earth? What was happening on mars?

Read this :
Astronomers call this backward motion "retrograde." The shift comes as Mars is gradually becoming visible in the late evening, too, just in time for the historic close approach to Earth that will occur in late August. Mars is already rising before midnight, blazing in the southeast skies like a pale red or sometimes yellowish-orange lantern.
At the beginning of this year, Mars was 191 million miles (306 million kilometers) from Earth. This week, the distance will drop to less than 40 million miles (64 million kilometers).
Mars now shines some 30 times brighter than it did on New Year's Day.
Since Jan. 1, the red planet has progressed along an easterly course through the background stars of the Zodiac. The motion is not noticeable in a single morning, but could be detected from one to the next by astute observers.
For the past few weeks, Mars has appeared to slow in its eastward trajectory, almost seeming to waver, as if it had become uncertain.
On Wednesday, July 30, that steady eastward course will come to a stop. Then, for the next two months, the planet will move backward against the star background - toward the west. On Sept. 29 it will pause again before resuming its normal eastward direction.

All the planets exhibit retrograde motion at one time or another.

I believe you should read more

Source from www.space.com (search for Reverse Course! Mars Motion Soon to be Backward)

All cultures had medicine men and women who were highly knowledgeable about all the herbal medicines, which could be obtained from local plants, minerals etc.

I see no reason to believe they didn’t know about honey and its medical uses.

you can assume but you can not prove. We are not talking about Medicene (physist) Man, we are talking about the prophet (an illiterate)
anyway this just another one of many we have and of what I posted about the medicine. Why don't you answer me the "The Fly" thread?

That was no herbal ?

 

[7x7]

oh .. one more thing.. wanna ask about isra mi'raj.. many people define this phenomena as a spiritual incidence.. but i think it can be define scientificly..

what is your religion?

 

[7x7]

Yes I agree that doesn’t mean it works. However, that isn’t what you initially posted. Your initial post was about the primordial appearance of the cells that will lead to the organ that is responsible for hearing (aka ear) and sight (aka eye). You posted about the pre-STRUCTURES that will eventually become a working ear, eye and brain.

Now your story is changing. Now you are talking about really “hearing” and really “seeing” and really “thinking”.

so I'M making mistake, that is very fine, but the phrase is correct regarding the order.

I'm not a physist and I had to choice between the two? It is the same those translations do….which one is accurate, hard to tell.

Now your story is changing. Now you are talking about really “hearing” and really “seeing” and really “thinking”.

so are these in order for the fetus like I have written before? YES or NO?

So the below statement has just been made up and has no bearing on my above statement - which necessitates that a functioning brain MUST be there first. And - you know - developmentally it is!

again I'm saying you generalize The brain?

Lets see if part of the brain works first and that part is not responsible for hearing and seeing , then the problem has been solved.

(like I said – anything can be made to mean anything – agreed?)

I don't agree; In quran every sentence is well planed. And they mean a specific "meanings". MAYBE we sometimes make mistakes as HUMAN, while trying to discover the meanings but that s not a general case and that dose not mean that the Quran is wrong.

So, 7x7, which was it? The ancient Greeks looked into the future and copied the Qur’an or that the use of honey was common knowledge and the info was again copied into the Qur’an as if it was some new revelation bestowed from God?

again for you, it seems we have taken (as you claim) only the correct information from ancient greek medicine. Why we don't include some of their mistakes?

Wired ha?
Nothing weird, Quran is words of allah and it dose not include mistakes.

The first three are Legends from the Middle East and
The last three are from the Americans and Far East Asia.

No the first three are real and the other three and legends or myth stories.

Don’t you find it funny that ONLY Middle Eastern myth stories ended up in the Qur’an? Why didn’t the Far Eastern or American stories end up in the Qur’an? If all people started from the same spot you’d expect some retention of the real originals of man in other places outside the MIddle East? That is if you supposition is true.

let me see:
the first 3 contains :
A character (lived and was a prophet)
A story of nations ( Israel and now the Christians)

The other three don't have any of these , mainly about nature.

Ok, now for example, when history books talk about the Alexander the Macedonian? Are these history books based on myth or real stories?
Of course real stories, but sometimes real stories get altered and blab bla bla..

the first 3 are HISTROY and the other 3 are MYTH

But I have question: why Quran don't tell the history of Arabia (myth stories from Arabia) instead of what you call Middle East stories (instead of prophets' stories).

Arabia had full of myth stories, but they are not included because they are myth NOT real.

So why is it that ONLY the ME retained the Myth Stories that became part of the Qur'an?!?!?!

They are no ME stories. They are stories of prophets LIVED in what is called now ME. God sent thousands of messengers and prophets , but the stories of Moses and Issa (Jesus) are the most important for US and For our religion.

The people that wrote the Qur’an coped stories from the region where they lived – The Middle East. So obviously American and Far Eastern mythology wouldn’t be included! The writers of the Qur’an hadn’t heard those stories before.

Not that, Quran is a religion book, it mentions the stories of prophets, it isn't stories book.

Wasn't a moon-god named Allah worshipped as the highest god at Medina - prior to Islam? Hmmmmmm . . . . And Allah is included in the Qur'an as the name of the God? Hmmmmm . . . .

No…
Arabs were idol worship but they believed in Allah exists. Nothing like moon Allah or sun Allah. (multiple Gods , Musrekeen in Arabic)