Islam & Science

[Michael]

Salam Alaikom to all brothers in Islam...

you know what,
all you aethists and non believers are sad...you have no life, no faith, no guidelines, what are your rules in life? you are astray, with no base or conscience, no feeling of right or wrong, no FEAR. what do you fear, the cops? who do you think made you, made everything around you?

One can blather on and on about this or that – but let’s just compare countries:

1) The Netherlands: the Dutch are approximately 50% atheist
2) Japan: The Japanese are either Buddhists or Shinto and don’t worship a particular God.
3) China: The Chinese teach children in elementary school that religion is brainwashing, there is no God.
4) Iran: The Iranians had a revolution and now have an Islamic state.
5) Arabia is the home of Islam and are majority Muslims.

Rank these countries in terms of personal freedoms, enlightenment, judicial fairness, prosperity, and morality.

who do you think made you, made everything around you? if you seriously think that everything was created out of nowhere, then you have no grasp over anything, how the hell is anything a result of nothing? have you ever seen a chair just "happen", or materilalize, NO, . . . .

And just where did your God come from?

Oh yeah here’s your answer:

these questions cannot be explained by the normal human mind.

AKA: I have no idea but someone told me so it must be true. . . .

have you ever seen a chair just "happen", or materilalize, NO, someone or smthing has to build it.

Evolution is the word you’re looking for.

. . . does it not confuse you when you are telling yourself that you just "happened"...logic is the key to narrow minded, ignorant, illogical, undereducated people like you, something or someone has to have created the first human, a supernatural power must have...that is the first fact you must grasp before you talk or argue about anything related to Quran, the Bible, revelations, religion, or anything as such.

Again, it’s ironic that you should call Atheists narrow minded, and then insist that the ONLY answer is a Supernatural power.

Who is undereducated? Who is narrow minded?

I think you’ll find most Atheist were at one time Theists, But they actually had an open enough mind and were able to question the way in which they were taught to think and were actually able to start to think for themselves.

There appears to be the things you just KNOW. And because you KNOW them you obviously needn’t consider other opinions – BUT . . no no no you are open-minded, its not that you’re close-minded, it just that you KNOW the truth and as such there is no reason to consider others opinions. But your open minded . . .

yeah . . . right . . . .
YET:
a) You insist Atheists are somehow inherently immoral. Which just isn’t true.
b) You insist that God needn’t a creator but the Universe does. Which isn’t true.
c) Only a supernatural power can create life. Again, not true.
d) Atheists are close minded. Again, not true.
e) Atheists are "under-educated". Funny enough most PhD are Atheist, funny that?
f) etc . . .

Anyway, I’d be curious as to how you will “open-mindedly” rank the countries from highest to lowest taking into account personal freedoms, enlightenment, judicial fairness, personal prosperity, and morality.

 

[kmt271]

evolution?
if u evolved from apes or monkey or shit or wtvr the hell you want, who created apes/monkeys wtvr...?
Allah is the one and only, and this is our test, whether we succeed or not depends on our belief, if you believe right and know that Allah created everything, you are right. if you choose to be self-centred and selfish and not want to believe that there is a superior power, then that is your loss. you are acting your own God, you are being arrogant and ungrateful for everything around you. YOU WILL ALL BURN IN HELL. and God shall remind of this day, and the day you chose to be like this: arrogant/ungrateful/illogical etc etc..
here's a question:
presume that God created you and everything around you....isnt God amazing in his power and capabilities? isnt he the almighty? just presume ok? now lets take it a step further...presuming (for you that is, i dont need to presume) God is the creator of everything, we as little humans are nothing next to him right...just imagine how much power He possesses, does He need a creator?
My answer is No...

 

[Michael]

evolution?

yeah, that's about right

presume that God created you and everything around you....isnt God amazing in his power and capabilities? isnt he the almighty? just presume ok? now lets take it a step further...presuming (for you that is, i dont need to presume) God is the creator of everything, we as little humans are nothing next to him right...just imagine how much power He possesses, does He need a creator?
My answer is No...

1) An amazing God would be one that could create a universe where suffering, even as a concept, could not exist.

2) You seem to be quite enthralled with the “power” of God? Why? So what? What’s so great about having power? Having the power to create people to worship you is actually a bit sick –anyway, that’s just my opinion. Having the power to create a universe without suffering BEING A POSSIBILITY would be good use of said "Godly Power", but instead creating one where suffering is not only possible but evidently quite pleasing to God – as there has been so much of it, God itself even dolles out a bit of it now and again - - well again – just sick.

3) Evolution is true whether you like to believe as such or not. But, it should be noted, many Muslims used to believe in evolution, even before Darwin proposed it. It wasn't as eloquently noted as it is now, but pretty close to the way Darwin imagined it to be.

4)

YOU WILL ALL BURN IN HELL.

To live your life in fear /or/ in love with your own imagination . . . . scary really

Anyway, I attempted to answer your questions/comments, so it would be civil of you to do that same,

Here I’ll repost:

1) The Netherlands: the Dutch are approximately 50% atheist
2) Japan: The Japanese are either Buddhists or Shinto and don’t worship a particular God.
3) China: The Chinese teach children in elementary school that religion is brainwashing, there is no God.
4) Iran: The Iranians had a revolution and now have an Islamic state.
5) Arabia is the home of Islam and are majority Muslims.

Could you rank the countries from highest to lowest taking into account personal freedoms, enlightenment, judicial fairness, personal prosperity, and morality.

Thanks
MII

 

[Lemming3k]

if u evolved from apes or monkey or shit or wtvr the hell you want, who created apes/monkeys wtvr...?
Allah is the one and only, and this is our test, whether we succeed or not depends on our belief, if you believe right and know that Allah created everything, you are right.

You've gone down the road of making opinions again, not providing evidence to support your views, this is called preaching, you may carry on all day but i have a feeling you'll turn more people against you than anything else.

if you choose to be self-centred and selfish and not want to believe that there is a superior power, then that is your loss. you are acting your own God, you are being arrogant and ungrateful for everything around you.

Name calling will not make believers out of us, can you even form a half decent arguement? In your own time please....

YOU WILL ALL BURN IN HELL. and God shall remind of this day, and the day you chose to be like this: arrogant/ungrateful/illogical etc etc..

More name calling and even a threat, ahh the good old days where religion said you'd burn in hell and everyone screamed 'please no not hell i'll do anything to avoid such terror' i shall explain this quite simply to you, burning in hell has no meaning as a threat to atheists since we dont believe in hell, and to other religions, well they believe you'll burn in hell so you're at a stalemate really.

here's a question:
presume that God created you and everything around you....isnt God amazing in his power and capabilities? isnt he the almighty? just presume ok? now lets take it a step further...presuming (for you that is, i dont need to presume) God is the creator of everything, we as little humans are nothing next to him right...just imagine how much power He possesses, does He need a creator?
My answer is No...

He has more power so doesnt need a creator? So he created himself? Or he always existed? There are no other options left.

 

[fahrenheit 451]

hahahahahah
you're sooo predictable pavlos!! hahahah
I stuck the translation of that ayyah you gave me into a search engine and guess what the first result was!! omg, it was an INCORRECT translation of that ayyah in an ANTI-ISLAMIC CHRISTIAN website!! this is hilarious, is this all you could come up with, going to anti-islamic webpages and ripping fake translations of them...you need to get a life man...and some intelligence!
the correct translation is:
O ye who believe! Truly, among your wives and your children are (some that are) enemies to yourselves: so beware of them! But if ye forgive and overlook, and cover up (their faults), verily Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.


this is a great piece of advice, it is saying that your enemies can be amongst the closest people to you, even your wife or your children or your cousins can be your enemies! it is not saying that your wives and children ARE your enemies like you claim: "Your wives and children are your enemies. They are to you only a temptation." you idiot, think! and when Allah says beware of them, that applies to the enemies, not your children or wives...
In the 7th century, you never knew who would be a traitor of war, a traitor against you, who knew who hated you...it could be the closest person to you but you were not aware of it, its even the same today. dont you think your wife could possibly be your enemy? she might want your money and wealth, is that not possible?? now do you understand the REAL meaning of this ayyah in the Quran....

could you please supply some source material so I can verify your claims, thank you.
I could search myself, But I may come Up with ANTI-ISLAMIC CHRISTIAN website, so it would help again thank you

 

[fahrenheit 451]

hahahahahah
you're sooo predictable pavlos!! hahahah
I stuck the translation of that ayyah you gave me into a search engine and guess what the first result was!! omg, it was an INCORRECT translation of that ayyah in an ANTI-ISLAMIC CHRISTIAN website!! this is hilarious, is this all you could come up with, going to anti-islamic webpages and ripping fake translations of them...you need to get a life man...and some intelligence!
the correct translation is:
O ye who believe! Truly, among your wives and your children are (some that are) enemies to yourselves: so beware of them! But if ye forgive and overlook, and cover up (their faults), verily Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.


this is a great piece of advice, it is saying that your enemies can be amongst the closest people to you, even your wife or your children or your cousins can be your enemies! it is not saying that your wives and children ARE your enemies like you claim: "Your wives and children are your enemies. They are to you only a temptation." you idiot, think! and when Allah says beware of them, that applies to the enemies, not your children or wives...
In the 7th century, you never knew who would be a traitor of war, a traitor against you, who knew who hated you...it could be the closest person to you but you were not aware of it, its even the same today. dont you think your wife could possibly be your enemy? she might want your money and wealth, is that not possible?? now do you understand the REAL meaning of this ayyah in the Quran....

I did a search myself and came up with the three most common english translations; so I quote all three and maybe you could explain without getting angry, a little decorum please. why the all are slightly different and why they are not that disimilar to pavlosmarcos's quote.

O you who believe! Verily, among your wives and your children there are enemies for you, therefore beware of them! But if you pardon (them) and overlook, and forgive (their faults), then verily, Allâh is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. The Holy Quran by Hilali & Khan

O you who believe! surely from among your wives and your children there is an enemy to you; therefore beware of them; and if you pardon and forbear and forgive, then surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. The Holy Quran by Shakir

O ye who believe! Truly, among your wives and your children are (some that are) enemies to yourselves: so beware of them! But if ye forgive and overlook, and cover up (their faults), verily Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. The noble Quran by A.Y. Ali

 

[Truth_above_peace]

Lies and deception.

First of all what we non muslims need to do is stop arguing with these muslims about the scientific proofs. Because just like the church, which killed coppernicus for saying the earth is round; and later changed the meanings of the bible around and started saying themselves that the earth is round; just like that muslims will change the meaning and translations to fit what ever science states today; and if science is proved wrong they will move on and say that the translation is to be blamed and quran never really stated the mistaken scientific fact in the first place; hence they will just place the blame on the translator and say that quran is still correct.

Now look at the life of muhhamad and quran. In quran it says after ramadan is over hunt your enemy by any means possible (cheating, lying,deciet).. Quran also says that if you are under pressure you can even deny that you are a mulims to get out of that situation. Muhammad himself, while signing a document with the jews agreed to not use the word "prophet" (in this one case it was a peace treaty). Then one year when muhammad with his muslims was walking towards kabbah thinking that he would be let in to the kabbah he told his people that "we shall be let in this year and no one can stop us" but, even that year they weren't let in; Instead of getting access to kabbah that year, muhammad was promised that he would be let in the following year if he left with them one of the muslim converts (this convert came to muhammad converted and was going back with muhammad to kabbah...and muhammad gave him up as a payment to get access to kabbah the following year ...) The guy begged and pleaded cause he knew what was his destiny after being submitted back to the tribe that he left and converted from.

So it shoudn't come as a shock that muslims would do anything to convert a person. They will try force, love, deception and would even make up facts. It is also a fact that a lot of ppl that muslims brainwash and convert, they will then ask these converts not to reveal their conversions and influence other people. So its not a big deal for muslims to convert a scientist / doctors and ask them to keep their conversions secret. (Karla hamolka was brain washed into bringing her younger sister to paul bernardo to be raped and later killed and burrried..while she video taped.. people do crazy things after being brain washed..)

And even these people who are fighting with us and saying "no no look at the facts", even these poor people are just sheep. They hear made up facts by their religious leaders and they have no choice but to keep saying these things without even knowing that they are correct or not. Most of the muslims would even lie about anything because they are taught "just by saying this little lie, you can bring someone to islam". So these poor misguided souls dont understand something thats based on a lie, cant be the truth.

Now going into some of the things that quran says. Some one was saying how impressive it is to hear that quran talks about human being in a leech like form while in the womb. Well if you think about it muhammad was a grown man with many wives and must have seen a placenta (which comes out after the child is born). And placenta looks like a big leeech. Also when you look as a miscarriage you would say that it looks like a leech or a clot. But now muslim scholars (sales people of religion.. whos only mission is to prove quran right) will keep changing meaning and saying, in arabic this word in the past also meant this and this and this. These scholars have been living with this religion for ages, how can they now back out and say they were wrong. If they do that they even face death so why would they leave their position of power and then face death. A muslim preist's (maulvis) quran got burnt by mistake and the town killed him (the priest) saying you are evil. Now imagine a scholar saying " islam is wrong", him and his whole fam would be killed. Remember the muslim guy who stabbed an author who wrote a book exposing the lives of muslim women ... the guy says proudly that he would do it again and again if he had to. ... A person who says even true facts that dont glorify islam either runs a risk of being called racist or being killed. Muslims proved that they are a peaceful people (after popes remarks) by forecfuly (and by killing innocent christians) submitting them to peace. In kashmir terrorist have sent out a warning for all kashmiri ppl to leave kashmir if they are not muslim or to convert other wise they will be killed. Another clasic situation of peace through submission.

The truth is that these guys have been blinded and are being forced to lie.

Say even if i were to let you have it that quran has some prophecies. Do you think only devinely inspired souls can have prophecies?? Dont you think devil would power his subjects with prophecies and they say .. go spread this religion by any means possible (decite, lie, lust, love, killing). I am also reminded of nostradamos he had prophecies and very very accurate ones. Also shakespear had the art of saying sentences with 7 syllables.

See these guys are fooling most of the people even themselves. But at judgement they will be asked why did they keep spreading these lies and they will cry and say that we thought there were prophecies and secrets revealed. And they will be answered: you had a brain, how could you think that the devil couldn't play tricks; the signs were there; would a true messenger be so lustful that he needed several wives and felt the need to marry his adopted son's wife? would he feel the need to marry a 6 year old girl at the age of 55+ and bring her to his house at the age of 9??

To which these guys will answer but we were told that was allowed. BUT THE BLAME WOULD BE ON THEM ANYWAYS.

There is a good possibility that there will be a large population of muslims by the time the earth ends. But, then again when does the LORD end creation; "when there is too much sin on the earth" even if these guys put up a cover of so called "righteousness" over their sins and wrong doings IT WILL STILL BE THE DEVILS INFLUENCE and hence when islam takes full swing earth will have to be ended

Hence our duty as non-muslims is to unite against them spreading these lies and taking our innocent ppl and making them rooters and spreaders of lies. If we fight with them and ask them questions this will only make their lies stronger for the next innocent soul that they wanna brainwash. There will come a time when we will be persecuted for being non-mulims so i say lets do something about it today. These guys live as friends and brothers with us when they are in small numbers but when they become the majority is when you see their true colours. Then they dont let us live they dont let us practice our religions; So do something about it today rather than waiting for that tomorrow. And dear muslims when you read articles like these do try and understand that what youare being fed are lies as well these lies could be from the devil himself. Muhammad struck down the ritual of idol worship but brough the ritual of little kids slicing the necks of animals with blood getting all over them and blood gushing out of the animal as it twitches -- which ritual was better? See the difference between misguided pagans and the obvious deamonic rituals.

PS i am sorry i can't write well so pardon me for my errors.
PS brothers and sister that are muslim right now... i would like to say sorry if i hurt your feelings.

 

[Sock puppet path]

First of all what we non muslims need to do is stop arguing with these muslims about the scientific proofs. .

For christ sake we did 2 years ago yet you felt the need to join the forum dig up this 2 year old dead thread, resurrect it and start off your post by telling us we shouldn't argue with these muslims! How thick are you?

Oh yeah and welcome to the forum, now log the hell out!
:m:

 

[Michael]

It's fun to read what we wrote 2 years ago - I think I was in a better mood back then

 

[WildBlueYonder]

First of all what we non muslims need to do is stop arguing with these muslims about the scientific proofs. Because just like the church, which killed coppernicus for saying the earth is round; and later changed the meanings of the bible around and started saying themselves that the earth is round; just like that muslims will change the meaning and translations to fit what ever science states today; and if science is proved wrong they will move on and say that the translation is to be blamed and quran never really stated the mistaken scientific fact in the first place; hence they will just place the blame on the translator and say that quran is still correct.

Though you may be right about arguing about what the quran says, until enough non-muslims learn Arabic, we won’t know what it really says, because it is so jumbled, with abrogated passages, that change the meaning from peaceful co-existence to warlike treachery, deceit & conquest, that who’s to know what it really says?

so, if CAIR says the whole quran could be said to a “science book”, a “history book”, or a “moral guide”, who’s to argue?

As to Copernicus, you’re way off base, read below:

From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicolaus_Copernicus

“Publication of De revolutionibus orbium coelestium
Copernicus was still working on De revolutionibus (even if not convinced that he wanted to publish it) when in 1539 Georg Joachim Rheticus, a mathematician from Wittenberg, arrived in Frombork. Philipp Melanchthon had arranged for Rheticus to visit several astronomers and study with them. Rheticus became a pupil of Copernicus, staying with him for two years, during which he wrote a book, Narratio prima (First Account), outlining the essence of Copernicus' theory. In 1542, Rheticus published a treatise on trigonometry by Copernicus (later included in the second book of De revolutionibus). Under strong pressure from Rheticus, and having seen the favorable first general reception of his work, Copernicus finally agreed to give the book to his close friend, Tiedemann Giese, bishop of Chełmno (Kulm), to be delivered to Rheticus for printing by Johannes Petreius at Nuremberg (Nürnberg).
Legend has it that the first printed copy of De revolutionibus was placed in Copernicus' hands on the very day he died, allowing him to take farewell of his opus vitae (life's work). He is reputed to have woken from a stroke-induced coma, looked at his book, and died peacefully.
Copernicus was buried in Frombork Cathedral. Archeologists had long searched vainly for his remains when, on November 3, 2005, it was announced that in August that year Copernicus' skull had been discovered (see "Grave" below).”

“In 1757 Copernicus's book was removed from the Index Librorum Prohibitorum, the list of books which were banned by the Catholic Church. Ever since, Poles claimed that Copernicus was a Pole and Germans that he was a German. Before that, when Copernicus and his ideas were rejected, it was contrariwise”

 

[Truth_above_peace]

I just saw this site for the first time.

For christ sake we did 2 years ago yet you felt the need to join the forum dig up this 2 year old dead thread, resurrect it and start off your post by telling us we shouldn't argue with these muslims! How thick are you?

Oh yeah and welcome to the forum, now log the hell out!
:m:

Hey bro, just saw this site last night; didn't know it was a 2 year old post. And what i am feeling is that we need to unite as non-muslims because the day their population goes up we would be treated as 3rd grade citizens in our own countries. Look at kashmir, look at pakistan, bangladesh, malaysia and any other parts of the world. Muslim people when they are a minority stay calm and quite and act brotherly. But, when their population goes up their religious leaders start preaching hardcore islam and thats when all hell breaks loose and killings start and muslims gang up on you in every which way possible. But by this time its already too late for us non-muslims. Hence i say rather than arguing with these poor misguided souls who are paving their own path to hell and thnking they are still doing the right thing. Lets just form aliances to better protect our coming generations. I dont have a detailed solution that would protect us and educate and enlighten muslims to break out of the brain washing that makes them see demonic/evil practices as the true religion.