Islam & Science
- Thread starter 7x7
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@ anonymous2
I didn’t say that resrograde motion what will make the earth slow down or reverse motion. I was referring to that special accidents happen all time, while Igor was saying that we have to wait for long time before earth reverse motion or its motion slows down a lot due to the gravity of the moon.
All I wanted to say from this point that "gravity vr motion".
Many incidents could affect the gravity of earth like a planet approaching earth.
Resrograde motion is not part of Islam and science thread, it was a replay to Igor.
I didn’t say that resrograde motion what will make the earth slow down or reverse motion. I was referring to that special accidents happen all time, while Igor was saying that we have to wait for long time before earth reverse motion or its motion slows down a lot due to the gravity of the moon.
All I wanted to say from this point that "gravity vr motion".
Many incidents could affect the gravity of earth like a planet approaching earth.
Resrograde motion is not part of Islam and science thread, it was a replay to Igor.
@Michael
No, body is not a one mass, and it dose not develop at once. Things after things….
This statement also proves that brain is not one mass and every portion controls something and you know it.
it is not just a definition
No one is referring to complex math. There are people "crazy" that can hear and see but they don't understand a word.
I have seen real examples..
Can you give me more info:
What is that?
Why that happen?
What type of honey?
Is the honey is pure or cheated?
Where that happen?
No, body is not a one mass, and it dose not develop at once. Things after things….
This statement also proves that brain is not one mass and every portion controls something and you know it.
it is not just a definition
No one is referring to complex math. There are people "crazy" that can hear and see but they don't understand a word.
I have seen real examples..
Can you give me more info:
What is that?
Why that happen?
What type of honey?
Is the honey is pure or cheated?
Where that happen?
anonymous2
Registered Senior Member
7x7, if Muhammad said that a disease is in one wing, and a cure is in another, then can you tell me what scientist says that a fly carries a disease in one wing and its antidote in the other? Also, can you tell me if it would be wise to dip a fly in a drink, considering it can be a carrier of many diseases? Are you trying to tell me that a fly has the antidote for EVERY DISEASE it could possibly carry? If so, what scientist says that?
Just because a fly can produce substance to fight off disease, that doesn't mean that a specific wing holds a disease while the other one holds the cure.
I think what Muhammad was thinking is that, flies were known carriers of disease, and he thought, "how could flies carry those diseases without dying/being sick from them?" So, I suppose he figured that the fly must have an immunity to the diseases by supplying its own antidote. I think modern science believes the fly is not genetically able to be sick from many of the diseases it can carry, not that it has a specific antidote to those diseases.
The fact of the matter is that, at least according to the English translation, the idea is FALSE that a fly has a disease in one wing and its antidote in the other. And, even if it did, how wise would it be to FURTHER expose a vessel to possible disease by dipping it in a drink, considering how MANY diseases a fly can carry? That doesn't seem very wise to me.
As an example, how many Muslims do you know, if they see a fly drop in a vessel, they grab it and then dip it in the vessel? That does not seem very sanitary.
Just because a fly can produce substance to fight off disease, that doesn't mean that a specific wing holds a disease while the other one holds the cure.
I think what Muhammad was thinking is that, flies were known carriers of disease, and he thought, "how could flies carry those diseases without dying/being sick from them?" So, I suppose he figured that the fly must have an immunity to the diseases by supplying its own antidote. I think modern science believes the fly is not genetically able to be sick from many of the diseases it can carry, not that it has a specific antidote to those diseases.
The fact of the matter is that, at least according to the English translation, the idea is FALSE that a fly has a disease in one wing and its antidote in the other. And, even if it did, how wise would it be to FURTHER expose a vessel to possible disease by dipping it in a drink, considering how MANY diseases a fly can carry? That doesn't seem very wise to me.
As an example, how many Muslims do you know, if they see a fly drop in a vessel, they grab it and then dip it in the vessel? That does not seem very sanitary.
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sure it is, and I'm still waiting for yours7x7 said:it is not just a definition
So again,
For: sight, hearing, and understanding
(i) what is it?
(ii) how does it come about?
(iii) where does it occur?
(iv) what day does it start?
(v) what is required for it to occur?
@Honey and how it sometimes kills some people.
Q: What is that?:
A: Anaphylactic shock is a severe allergic reaction
Q: Why that happen?
A: Hypersensitivity
Q: What type of honey?
A: Any type
Q: Is the honey is pure or cheated?
A: Any honey
Q: Where that happen?
A: In the entire body
Yes ANY honey can and does KILL some people. I would suspect down through the centuries many good Muslims who were just reading the Qur’an for some advice unknowingly gave honey to some poor sop who then had anaphylactic shock and died because of the honey.
What does that say about the verse?
Or are you going to do the re-interpret dance around this one too – until you have reinterpreted it over and over and over until it has some meaning – for you at least. Not that it’ll do the sops any good who died because of being given honey!
Here's a book about it if you want to learn more: Anaphylaxis:
And here’s a scientific article about allergic reactions specifically to honey:
Allergy to honey: relation to pollen and honey bee allergy
Incidentally, it was still copied from earlier medical writings! Everywhere from the Romans to the chinese used honey!
Fine.7x7 said:
However, they didn’t worship the Idols. Your mistaken if you believe that. The carving of their God is just a representation. Hindus don’t worship the Rock carving of their Gods – it just represents their Gods. These special stone carvings are just used to represent the Gods.
And, to tell you the true 7x7, I don’t see any difference in a Hindu dancing 3 times around a rock somehow special to Shiva and Muslims walking around some rock special to Allah.
As far as the act is concerned (that of walking around some stone as if it is going to bring someone closer to God) well - there’s really no difference between the two religions, to me anyway.
What’s a coincidence? There is no meaning in the “Fly” verse. As all animals have an immune system – so what? It doesn’t take an act of God to write down something that has no valuable meaning.7x7 said:
Similar to the “honey” verse the “fly” verse just has no meaning.
That is until, like the “hearing, seeing, and understanding” verse, you reinterpret it over and over and over at nausea until YOU at least are satisfied it has some meaning – of course I doubt anyone else will. Speaking of which, I’m still waiting for you to answer my questions of hearing, see, and understanding. As you seem to think the Qur’an has the answers it should be a piece of cake to answer them.
I’ll repost them again:
For: sight, hearing, and understanding
(i) what is it?
(ii) how does it come about?
(iii) where does it occur?
(iv) what day does it start?
(v) what is required for it to occur?
Much of the so called "Scientific Miracles of the Quran" are just descriptions of things that can be observed by the naked senses.
The rest of these supposed miracles loses its authenticity due to the fact that surrounding nations had already made such statements and discoveries.
Like the mountains which look like pegs.
Like the boundary between salt & fresh water. Determined by tasting the waters at the point where a river exits into the ocean.
Like the hail & thunder. Rarely occuring in the hot middle east but leaves a lasting impression.
The rest of these supposed miracles loses its authenticity due to the fact that surrounding nations had already made such statements and discoveries.
Like the stages of embryology which had been known by the neighboring greeks.
Or some concept of a big bang which was already speculated in Persia & India.
Some muslims try to convince themselves that these obscure hints of scientific realities constitute for a miracle. Do they really know what a miracle is?
A miracle is something that is understood by anybody, any nationality, even by children. Like the miracle of raising the dead or the miracle of instantaneously healing a leper, or the miracle of killing every first born child in Egypt, or the miracle of dividing the Red Sea. If such a thing does happen: Americans, Russians, Arabs, Asians, all of them will see and understand that a miracle had happened. Even athiests would be shaken and many of them would believe.
And what is with this Quran? Give it to a Japanese and he will just stare at you blankly and say "Whats up dude?". :lol: Tell him that this is a miracle and he will tell you "I dont even understand this language, dude".
So maybe its a miracle for you, but not for everybody else that is not a muslim. The Miracle of the quran is that muslims think it is a miracle even though it is truly not. :idea:
A miracle is something that is understood by anybody, any nationality, even by children. Like the miracle of raising the dead or the miracle of instantaneously healing a leper, or the miracle of killing every first born child in Egypt, or the miracle of dividing the Red Sea. If such a thing does happen: Americans, Russians, Arabs, Asians, all of them will see and understand that a miracle had happened. Even athiests would be shaken and many of them would believe.
And what is with this Quran? Give it to a Japanese and he will just stare at you blankly and say "Whats up dude?". :lol: Tell him that this is a miracle and he will tell you "I dont even understand this language, dude".
So maybe its a miracle for you, but not for everybody else that is not a muslim. The Miracle of the quran is that muslims think it is a miracle even though it is truly not. :idea:
Bells said:
Please stick with the topic. We are discussing "Scientific miracles" and Islam. You think what I said is applicable for any religion? Then tell which other religion beside Islam who claim "Scientific miracles" in their religious texts.
Bells
Staff member
My my, testy today aren't you? I was agreeing with you. And all I was trying to say that all religions claim many scientific facts to be miracles. Islam is one of the many. Any thing that was different from the norm could be construed as a miracle. Any observation of nature could result in the discovery of a new miracle. What may have seemed miraculous in the 6th century, was easily explained in later centuries as not being miraculous, instead it was merely nature. Many of the discoveries claimed to be miracles in the Quran were already studied and discovered long before Mohammed's time.DoctorNO said:
For example, in the Quran, it describes the fetal developments in 3 stages. Some may see this as a miracle and others (like myself) would point out that Aristotle had already described the fetal development of chicks as being one that occured in 3 stages in the 4th century BC.
Another example is the the healing of the boy in the bible thought to have been possessed by the devil. Hardly the devil as epilepsy is hardly a phenomenon of modern times. A miracle? Many claim it is, and others see it as a boy having a fit that passed and was gone. Not a scientific miracle for sure, but it just describes the fact that people will believe what they want to believe and will see what they want to see.
Genesis 9:11-17 says that the rainbow was the result of a special act of creation. Hmmm... hardly a miracle. As you said above in one of your previous posts, rain and lightning and hail was a rare phenomenon in the desert areas of the middle east. Of course when it did rain and a rainbow formed, the peons looking up would think it was a miracle as they did not happen often but they did not realise that the rainbow was hardly a sign from God but only light being refracted by water droplets.
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7x7 said:
7x7 how could you read "where the moon god Hubal (al-Lah or "the God") had his shrine, the Kaaba" then turn around and make that post? ...... You aren't really interested in reading or understanding other peoples posts are you? So why bother
Like I said it’s two different pictures which makes it very confusing.7x7 said:
Both of the fly’s wings contain germ killing chemicals to protect them against fungus and bacteria. Without these chemicals the wings would soon rot away like a bad apple.
Here I have to rely on translators. This probably explains why they vary so much.
About Honey. The verse is about paradise not this world. Are there illnesses in paradise?
047.015
YUSUFALI: (Here is) a Parable of the Garden which the righteous are promised: in it are rivers of water incorruptible; rivers of milk of which the taste never changes; rivers of wine, a joy to those who drink; and rivers of honey pure and clear. In it there are for them all kinds of fruits; and Grace from their Lord. (Can those in such Bliss) be compared to such as shall dwell for ever in the Fire, and be given, to drink, boiling water, so that it cuts up their bowels (to pieces)?
PICKTHAL: A similitude of the Garden which those who keep their duty (to Allah) are promised: Therein are rivers of water unpolluted, and rivers of milk whereof the flavour changeth not, and rivers of wine delicious to the drinkers, and rivers of clear-run honey; therein for them is every kind of fruit, with pardon from their Lord. (Are those who enjoy all this) like those who are immortal in the Fire and are given boiling water to drink so that it teareth their bowels?
SHAKIR: A parable of the garden which those guarding (against evil) are promised: Therein are rivers of water that does not alter, and rivers of milk the taste whereof does not change, and rivers of drink delicious to those who drink, and rivers of honey clarified and for them therein are all fruits and protection from their Lord. (Are these) like those who abide in the fire and who are made to drink boiling water so it rends their bowels asunder.
Bells
Staff member
Ah my apologies.path said:Bells with all due respect go through this thread to see the scientific miracles presented
On topic, one of my personal favourites is:
We send down from heaven pure water so that by it We can bring a dead land to life and give drink to many of the animals and people We created. (Qur'an, 25:48-49)
Hmmm, mere observation after a rainstorm would see that dormant plants regenerate. As do some dormant animals and insects who only become active after the rains have passed.
Although this would have to be my favourite so called miracle claimed by many Muslims in the Quran so far:
Now excuse me while I wipe tears of laughter from my eyes...
Shame they failed to realise that corn was already cultivated in ancient Egypt long before the birth of Christ and was a great exporter of crops such as wheat and corn. And corn was also grown by neolithic Cypriots.
DoctorNO said:
And, let's not forget, the only religion to claim the existence of those elusive fire-goblins known as Jinn. And to do so with a straight face. Surely, that takes a lot of scientific rigour, or a ginormous sense of humour, I'm still undecided on that one...