Islam & Science
- Thread starter 7x7
- Start date
anonymous2@
7x7, if Muhammad said that a disease is in one wing, and a cure is in another, then can you tell me what scientist says that a fly carries a disease in one wing and its antidote in the other?
Actually , when I see someone talks like that I feel that person is trying to find way out, and never admit the truth.
About scientists? I do not know any, but I had a name for the anti-germs that they extracted them from the right wing, and because my mother languge isn't emglish I can't remember it right now.
Maybe if I got it again o will post it later.
Also, can you tell me if it would be wise to dip a fly in a drink, considering it can be a carrier of many diseases? Are you trying to tell me that a fly has the antidote for EVERY DISEASE it could possibly carry? If so, what scientist says that?
No one asks you to dip it into you drink, but if it "suddenly" dipped into your drink then dip it all so that the germs don't heart you.
Actually it carries anti-germs that kills all the disease it hold (that’s what I know). I even heard that a pharmacy company at Germany extract these anti-germs and selling them by 800 euros for one box (yet I'm not sure).
I think what Muhammad was thinking is that, flies were known carriers of disease, and he thought, "how could flies carry those diseases without dying/being sick from them?" So, I suppose he figured that the fly must have an immunity to the diseases by supplying its own antidote. I think modern science believes the fly is not genetically able to be sick from many of the diseases it can carry, not that it has a specific antidote to those diseases.
You must be kidding….. another run-away
The fact of the matter is that, at least according to the English translation, the idea is FALSE that a fly has a disease in one wing and its antidote in the other. And, even if it did, how wise would it be to FURTHER expose a vessel to possible disease by dipping it in a drink, considering how MANY diseases a fly can carry? That doesn't seem very wise to me.
I haven described that before, the whole point is to dip it all so that germs don't heart you.
As an example, how many Muslims do you know, if they see a fly drop in a vessel, they grab it and then dip it in the vessel? That does not seem very sanitary.
Actually many, and my cousin himself in front of me did it at the park and nothing happened to him after (for sure)
7x7, if Muhammad said that a disease is in one wing, and a cure is in another, then can you tell me what scientist says that a fly carries a disease in one wing and its antidote in the other?
Actually , when I see someone talks like that I feel that person is trying to find way out, and never admit the truth.
About scientists? I do not know any, but I had a name for the anti-germs that they extracted them from the right wing, and because my mother languge isn't emglish I can't remember it right now.
Maybe if I got it again o will post it later.
Also, can you tell me if it would be wise to dip a fly in a drink, considering it can be a carrier of many diseases? Are you trying to tell me that a fly has the antidote for EVERY DISEASE it could possibly carry? If so, what scientist says that?
No one asks you to dip it into you drink, but if it "suddenly" dipped into your drink then dip it all so that the germs don't heart you.
Actually it carries anti-germs that kills all the disease it hold (that’s what I know). I even heard that a pharmacy company at Germany extract these anti-germs and selling them by 800 euros for one box (yet I'm not sure).
I think what Muhammad was thinking is that, flies were known carriers of disease, and he thought, "how could flies carry those diseases without dying/being sick from them?" So, I suppose he figured that the fly must have an immunity to the diseases by supplying its own antidote. I think modern science believes the fly is not genetically able to be sick from many of the diseases it can carry, not that it has a specific antidote to those diseases.
You must be kidding…..
another run-awayThe fact of the matter is that, at least according to the English translation, the idea is FALSE that a fly has a disease in one wing and its antidote in the other. And, even if it did, how wise would it be to FURTHER expose a vessel to possible disease by dipping it in a drink, considering how MANY diseases a fly can carry? That doesn't seem very wise to me.
I haven described that before, the whole point is to dip it all so that germs don't heart you.
As an example, how many Muslims do you know, if they see a fly drop in a vessel, they grab it and then dip it in the vessel? That does not seem very sanitary.
Actually many, and my cousin himself in front of me did it at the park and nothing happened to him after (for sure)
@ Michael
sure it is, and I'm still waiting for yours
So again,
For: sight, hearing, and understanding
(i) what is it?
(ii) how does it come about?
(iii) where does it occur?
(iv) what day does it start?
(v) what is required for it to occur?
How can I get resources for such questions….?
I'm not physist after all.?
However, they didn’t worship the Idols. Your mistaken if you believe that. The carving of their God is just a representation.
No they did, you should believe that. I told you before, they worshiped Idols for reasons, they thought that idols were also gods. They thought idols had special "place" and that they would carry their prayers up to sky. They didn't believe in life-after-death..etc.
And, to tell you the true 7x7, I don’t see any difference in a Hindu dancing 3 times around a rock somehow special to Shiva and Muslims walking around some rock special to Allah.
You are talking like Hajj is only "walking" around the Kaaba. If someone has to go to Hajj, what do you expect him to do? To do regular prayer or to have "special" things to do.
I recomend you read, The Hajj thread by Path beacuse there is very nice repaly there about hajj and what dose it mean to muslims.
My point that hajj is not a regular prayer. Hajj has it's stuff and no only walking around the kabba which geographic science proved that mecca is the center or lands.
Another coincidence ?
What’s a coincidence? There is no meaning in the “Fly” verse. As all animals have an immune system – so what? It doesn’t take an act of God to write down something that has no valuable meaning.
FIRST , it is no writing by god, it was told by prophet.
Second, the point here *which looks you have missed it* is to prevent muslims from the germs that the Fly carries. A very valuable point.
sure it is, and I'm still waiting for yours
So again,
For: sight, hearing, and understanding
(i) what is it?
(ii) how does it come about?
(iii) where does it occur?
(iv) what day does it start?
(v) what is required for it to occur?
How can I get resources for such questions….?
I'm not physist after all.?
However, they didn’t worship the Idols. Your mistaken if you believe that. The carving of their God is just a representation.
No they did, you should believe that. I told you before, they worshiped Idols for reasons, they thought that idols were also gods. They thought idols had special "place" and that they would carry their prayers up to sky. They didn't believe in life-after-death..etc.
And, to tell you the true 7x7, I don’t see any difference in a Hindu dancing 3 times around a rock somehow special to Shiva and Muslims walking around some rock special to Allah.
You are talking like Hajj is only "walking" around the Kaaba. If someone has to go to Hajj, what do you expect him to do? To do regular prayer or to have "special" things to do.
I recomend you read, The Hajj thread by Path beacuse there is very nice repaly there about hajj and what dose it mean to muslims.
My point that hajj is not a regular prayer. Hajj has it's stuff and no only walking around the kabba which geographic science proved that mecca is the center or lands.
Another coincidence ?
What’s a coincidence? There is no meaning in the “Fly” verse. As all animals have an immune system – so what? It doesn’t take an act of God to write down something that has no valuable meaning.
FIRST , it is no writing by god, it was told by prophet.
Second, the point here *which looks you have missed it* is to prevent muslims from the germs that the Fly carries. A very valuable point.
@Michael 2 - honey bee kills.
First you article don't mention the word : Anaphylactic shock?
It just mention allergy to honey.
The group of honey-allergic patients was compared with three control groups: 10 subjects sensitized to artemisia, 10 with honey bee venom allergy and 10 without a history of atopy or bee sting reactions.
??? people tested Honey bee venom? And not honey?
I made my search about the anaphylactic shock and here what I found:
1-
Insect Venom Allergy
Insect venom allergy is a harmful reaction to insect stings that occurs in people who have an abnormally high sensitivity to insect venom.
Allergic reactions to the venom of some stinging insects, such as honey bee, yellow jacket, hornet, wasp or fire ant can be life threatening.
Symptoms of insect venom allergy often begin within 15 to 30 minutes and arise distant from the site of sting. The first symptom is often itchiness that can affect all or any part of the skin, the eyes and the nose. As symptoms progress, the patient begins to sneeze, cough and wheeze, feel congested, and develop hives or swelling. These symptoms may be warning signs of a dangerous condition called anaphylaxis. Symptoms of anaphylaxis include sudden anxiety and weakness, difficulty breathing, tightness in the chest, lightheadedness and palpitation, and loss of consciousness. Anaphylactic shock can occur within minutes and result in death. Anaphylaxis is a medical emergency that needs immediate medical treatment, and any delay may reduce the chance of survival.
Honey bee and not honey????
Stings and not honey??
2-
anaphylactic shock
a state of shock resulting from a honeybee sting; during which one of the body's reactions is to contract the muscles in the bronchial tubes, or breathing tubes in the lungs. Anaphylactic shock is brought on by an acute allergy to bee venom and may cause sudden death unless immediate medical attention is received.
http://www.beecare.com/indexDynFrames.htm?http://www.beecare.com/Encyclopedia/Encyclopedia A.htm&1
http://www.hmc.psu.edu/healthinfo/i/insectallergy.htm
A wasp uses it's sting for killing prey, but it can also use it very effectively for defending itself. The sting has associated glands which produce a venom. A Hornet sting can be very painful, but is normally not dangerous, as the amount of venom injected is very small. In some cases, however, people do become ill after being stung by a Hornet, or for that case any stinging insect. In very extreme cases people suffer anaphylactic shock which can prove fatal
Wasp sting also?
Anaphylactic Shock may be caused by the injection of vaccines, atisera or antibiotics, or by insect sting which is what we are concerned with. It is a desperate emergency in which "half measures" or delay may prove fatal.
Insect sting???
http://www.the-piedpiper.co.uk/th4.htm
Honey can cure allegery
Eating locally produced honey may also help to minimize the symptoms of hay fever and related pollen allergies, which leave so many of us sniffling and sneezing at this time of the year. John Heinerman, a noted medical anthropologist and author of Heinerman's Encyclopedia of Healing Herbs and Spices (Prentice Hall, 1996), notes that the best course of treatment is to take one tablespoonful of local honey after each meal, beginning a month before pollen season starts. He also recommends chewing some of the comb between meals. Being a hay fever sufferer himself, Heinerman says, "Although [honey and honey comb] have never actually cured my hay fever as such, I can testify that they have reduced the misery and aggravation of watery eyes and runny nose by at least 80% during the allergy season."
Also
A person suffering from an allergy of a particular plant may be given honey from that plant so that the person develops resistance to that allergy. Honey is rich in fructose and vitamin K.
http://www.answering-christianity.com/honey_healing.htm
First you article don't mention the word : Anaphylactic shock?
It just mention allergy to honey.
The group of honey-allergic patients was compared with three control groups: 10 subjects sensitized to artemisia, 10 with honey bee venom allergy and 10 without a history of atopy or bee sting reactions.
??? people tested Honey bee venom? And not honey?
I made my search about the anaphylactic shock and here what I found:
1-
Insect Venom Allergy
Insect venom allergy is a harmful reaction to insect stings that occurs in people who have an abnormally high sensitivity to insect venom.
Allergic reactions to the venom of some stinging insects, such as honey bee, yellow jacket, hornet, wasp or fire ant can be life threatening.
Symptoms of insect venom allergy often begin within 15 to 30 minutes and arise distant from the site of sting. The first symptom is often itchiness that can affect all or any part of the skin, the eyes and the nose. As symptoms progress, the patient begins to sneeze, cough and wheeze, feel congested, and develop hives or swelling. These symptoms may be warning signs of a dangerous condition called anaphylaxis. Symptoms of anaphylaxis include sudden anxiety and weakness, difficulty breathing, tightness in the chest, lightheadedness and palpitation, and loss of consciousness. Anaphylactic shock can occur within minutes and result in death. Anaphylaxis is a medical emergency that needs immediate medical treatment, and any delay may reduce the chance of survival.
Honey bee and not honey????
Stings and not honey??
2-
anaphylactic shock
a state of shock resulting from a honeybee sting; during which one of the body's reactions is to contract the muscles in the bronchial tubes, or breathing tubes in the lungs. Anaphylactic shock is brought on by an acute allergy to bee venom and may cause sudden death unless immediate medical attention is received.
http://www.beecare.com/indexDynFrames.htm?http://www.beecare.com/Encyclopedia/Encyclopedia A.htm&1
http://www.hmc.psu.edu/healthinfo/i/insectallergy.htm
A wasp uses it's sting for killing prey, but it can also use it very effectively for defending itself. The sting has associated glands which produce a venom. A Hornet sting can be very painful, but is normally not dangerous, as the amount of venom injected is very small. In some cases, however, people do become ill after being stung by a Hornet, or for that case any stinging insect. In very extreme cases people suffer anaphylactic shock which can prove fatal
Wasp sting also?
Anaphylactic Shock may be caused by the injection of vaccines, atisera or antibiotics, or by insect sting which is what we are concerned with. It is a desperate emergency in which "half measures" or delay may prove fatal.
Insect sting???
http://www.the-piedpiper.co.uk/th4.htm
Honey can cure allegery
Eating locally produced honey may also help to minimize the symptoms of hay fever and related pollen allergies, which leave so many of us sniffling and sneezing at this time of the year. John Heinerman, a noted medical anthropologist and author of Heinerman's Encyclopedia of Healing Herbs and Spices (Prentice Hall, 1996), notes that the best course of treatment is to take one tablespoonful of local honey after each meal, beginning a month before pollen season starts. He also recommends chewing some of the comb between meals. Being a hay fever sufferer himself, Heinerman says, "Although [honey and honey comb] have never actually cured my hay fever as such, I can testify that they have reduced the misery and aggravation of watery eyes and runny nose by at least 80% during the allergy season."
Also
A person suffering from an allergy of a particular plant may be given honey from that plant so that the person develops resistance to that allergy. Honey is rich in fructose and vitamin K.
http://www.answering-christianity.com/honey_healing.htm
@ DoctorNO
the problem that when it comes to islam, anti-islamic sources pick what they like and leave the others.
For example, from out history they tried to link " stages of embryology " to a doctor lived in Arabia at the day of prophet and they have "forgotten" that the stages of Galen were on animals and testing human embryo was totally forbidden during roman empire (oh they have just forgotten)
When it comes to " boundary between salt & fresh water" , they don't mention or forgotten that prophet never been to sea during his life (or at least the area where sea and rivers mixes). But that can take what they want from our history and dump the others.
Or some concept of a big bang which was already speculated in Persia & India.
Again , quran don't use maybe , perhaps and could be, quran and prophet use defenitly.
I have asked before , why the prophet didn't use perhaps while declaring these thing. Wouldn't be easier for him (specially if these things appeared to be false)?
No, he was not speculating things , he was approving things.
And what is with this Quran? Give it to a Japanese and he will just stare at you blankly and say "Whats up dude?". :lol: Tell him that this is a miracle and he will tell you "I dont even understand this language, dude".
the reason what quarn is miracle is beyond what Japanese think, and is beyond what you think…
Quran has many miracles, and science in it is just s small part.
I give one example , that if any human has the sense of thinking would realize it.
Just bring me one book in the world , except quran, that can be copied "totally , word by word and different pronunciation" in brain at all ages from 5 years old and up?
I have seen Syrian boy (only 5 years old) copies the hole quran in his memory.
I have seen kids from Africa, asia , Europe , every where that do not speak any Arabic and yet copies all the quran in their brain.
I have seen 7 years old from Senegal copies all the quran last year in a competition at TV,
Octualy , there is an competition that occurs in dubai every year Live at TV every Ramadan, where kids from all around the world comes.
maybe your Japanese frined would like to watch those little kids to realize why quran is a miracle.
the problem that when it comes to islam, anti-islamic sources pick what they like and leave the others.
For example, from out history they tried to link " stages of embryology " to a doctor lived in Arabia at the day of prophet and they have "forgotten" that the stages of Galen were on animals and testing human embryo was totally forbidden during roman empire (oh they have just forgotten)
When it comes to " boundary between salt & fresh water" , they don't mention or forgotten that prophet never been to sea during his life (or at least the area where sea and rivers mixes). But that can take what they want from our history and dump the others.
Or some concept of a big bang which was already speculated in Persia & India.
Again , quran don't use maybe , perhaps and could be, quran and prophet use defenitly.
I have asked before , why the prophet didn't use perhaps while declaring these thing. Wouldn't be easier for him (specially if these things appeared to be false)?
No, he was not speculating things , he was approving things.
And what is with this Quran? Give it to a Japanese and he will just stare at you blankly and say "Whats up dude?". :lol: Tell him that this is a miracle and he will tell you "I dont even understand this language, dude".
the reason what quarn is miracle is beyond what Japanese think, and is beyond what you think…
Quran has many miracles, and science in it is just s small part.
I give one example , that if any human has the sense of thinking would realize it.
Just bring me one book in the world , except quran, that can be copied "totally , word by word and different pronunciation" in brain at all ages from 5 years old and up?
I have seen Syrian boy (only 5 years old) copies the hole quran in his memory.
I have seen kids from Africa, asia , Europe , every where that do not speak any Arabic and yet copies all the quran in their brain.
I have seen 7 years old from Senegal copies all the quran last year in a competition at TV,
Octualy , there is an competition that occurs in dubai every year Live at TV every Ramadan, where kids from all around the world comes.
maybe your Japanese frined would like to watch those little kids to realize why quran is a miracle.
@path
7x7 how could you read "where the moon god Hubal (al-Lah or "the God") had his shrine, the Kaaba" then turn around and make that post? ...... You aren't really interested in reading or understanding other peoples posts are you? So why bother
what this ?
I told you HUBAL WAS ANOTHER IDOL……………..SO THEY CALLED\NAMED THAT IDOL AS THE MOON GOD. SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO NO ONE WAS WORSHIPING THE MOON BUT THE IDOL.
it looks you need to understand what i'm saying...
sorry for caps, but i had too. :m:
7x7 how could you read "where the moon god Hubal (al-Lah or "the God") had his shrine, the Kaaba" then turn around and make that post? ...... You aren't really interested in reading or understanding other peoples posts are you? So why bother
what this ?
I told you HUBAL WAS ANOTHER IDOL……………..SO THEY CALLED\NAMED THAT IDOL AS THE MOON GOD. SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO NO ONE WAS WORSHIPING THE MOON BUT THE IDOL.
it looks you need to understand what i'm saying...
sorry for caps, but i had too. :m:
anonymous2
Registered Senior Member
7x7 said:anonymous2@
Actually , when I see someone talks like that I feel that person is trying to find way out, and never admit the truth.
Just like you believe about every alleged prophet who came after Muhammad, right? Just because Muhammad appears to say something which could be interpreted as being half way right, that doesn't make him a prophet of God, in my opinion. Why don't you read Joseph Smith or any other alleged prophet after Muhammad. Do you? Do you take their claims seriously? Or do you *by default* say they're wrong because there is no prophet after Muhammad (in your view)?
7x7 said:
I want for you to show me what scientist says a DISEASE [obviously he was referring to a transmittable disease] is in one wing of a fly and its CURE is in the other [as if they are separate, left wing=disease, right wing=cure]. After all, THAT is what Muhammad supposedly said, isn't it? Just because someone might make some medicine from a part of the fly, that does NOT mean that there's a transmittable disease in one wing of the fly, and the cure for that transmittable disease in the other, does it? I also wonder just how effective this "medicine" is. After all, read this:
Like the Bald Chicken Tonic, most traditional aphrodisiacs contain herbs. Ginseng, seaweed, sulfur, and cinnamon are common ingredients. Animal fluid like liver extract, urine, feces, and semen can also be added. http://www.giantrobot.com/issues/issue14/aphro/
An aphrodisiac with urine or feces or semen? Goes to show that people can try to use just about anything for their "medicine".
7x7 said:
Wait a second, are you seriously trying to tell me that for every single disease a fly can hold, its antidote is in one of its wings?
Read this if you want:
For instance, the USDA states that “The house fly....can mechanically vector several pathogens, including: Salmonella, Shigella, Vibrio comma(cholera), Treponema pertenue (yaws), and amebic dysentery.”
Because it has been proven that flies can transport large numbers of pathogens both on and inside their bodies. And their peculiar feeding habits - regurgitation to disperse enzymes to liquefy their food as well as frequent defecation - are particularly worrisome given the pathogens they harbor internally.
Virus diseases that flies can carry..parainfluenza serotype 3 (PI3). Bacterial diseases flies can carry include pink eye, mastitis, bacterial scours, typhoid, anthrax, vibriosis, and several clostridial diseases. Flies also can transport eggs and infectious larvae of several important parasitic worms. ..Flies redeposit disease agents with each time that they defecate, feed or vomit. House flies have shown the ability to harbor more than 100 different species of pathogenic organisms. Studies also have incriminated flies in more than 65 human and animal diseases. (source: http://www.actroninc.com/hospital.htm)
Here's another source:
A SINGLE FLY CAN CONTAMINATE FEED/FOOD
WITH ENOUGH BACTERIA TO CAUSE ILLNESS
Flies are transmitters of disease primarily because they feed on human and animal wastes. The dangerous bacteria present in these wastes stick to the mouth, footpads and hairs of flies and may then be deposited in feed intended for animal consumption. Fly feces, which contain disease-bearing organisms, can also contaminate human food. Flies defecate every four to five minutes. And since flies have no teeth and must take their nourishment in liquid form, they spit on solid food and let the dissolve before consuming it. Fly spittle, or vomit, is swarming with bacteria and contaminates feed and areas where feed is stored.
One fly can carry over 33 million disease-causing microorganisms on the inner and outer surfaces of its body. (source: http://www.discoverdaytona.com/mainland/services/byebyebugs/insectfacts.htm)
So, are you SERIOUSLY trying to tell me that the fly carries the antidote for all of these diseases it may have at a particular time, in one of its wings, and by redipping the fly, all of these antidotes will come out in the drink, and thus make it disease free?! What doctor says that?
7x7 said:You must be kidding…..
No, I'm very serious. Evidently, you're very impressed by this, but I'm not. I don't find it the epitome of wisdom to say a disease is in one fly wing and its cure is in another, so go ahead and dip a fly in your drink if it's fallen in already. Read about the diseases a fly can carry. Muhammad's advice, which could further expose to possible disease, does NOT seem very wise to me.
7x7 said:
You were fortunate in my opinion. I wouldn't make a practice of doing that, though. Go ask doctors who are NOT Muslims who believe this Hadith if they think it wise to further expose yourself to possible disease by redipping a fly in your drink. If you put pressure on a fly by trying to redip it in your drink, it could redeposit disease agents. Read the quote above: Flies redeposit disease agents with each time that they defecate, feed or vomit. I'd hate to think that a fly I redipped in my drink defecated or vomitted or tried to drink what's in my vessel. And, if a fly merely "fell" in a vessel/drink, it'd be at the surface, wouldn't it? Why would anyone then take the fly, and DIP it IN the drink, which to me means submerge it? If anything, wouldn't that expose the drink to even MORE possible disease? I doubt very many doctors would advise you to redip a fly in your drink, unless they already believe in this Hadith.
Last edited:
yes people do have anaphylactic shock from being stung, However, people have food allergies as well and some have allergy to eating honey. Just like some have allergy to eating chocolate.7x7 said:
As I posted: Allergy to honey: relation to pollen and honey bee allergy.
You notice the first line says “allergic symptoms following honey ingestion”. This means to eat. The groups you are writing about were the “control” groups. So as I said, some people can not eat honey as it can make them sick due to allergic reaction to “the honey” the most severe form being anaphylactic shock. Of course this is common from the sting, but also can occur from eating honey.
So again, why would a god tell people to eat honey knowing that he created some to be allergic to it and get sick? The answer is that it wasn’t a message from god, it was the people writing the Qur’an adding something that was well known throughout the ancient world (agreed?) and making it appear as if it was some sudden “revelation” from God.
By the way there are many studies on honey allergies and the proteins “in honey” that causes people to get sick. Here's a few more:
1. DE LA TORRE F, GARCIA JC, MARTINEZ A ET AL. IgE binding proteins in honey: discussion on their origin. Invest Allergol Clin Immunol 1997;7:83-89.
2. LEUN R, THIEN FCK, BALDO B ET AL. Royal jelly induced asthma and anaphylaxis: clinical characteristics and immunological correlations. J Allergy Clin Immunol 1995;96:1004-1007.
3. HELBLING A, PETER CH, BERCHTOLD E ET AL. Allergy to honey: relation to pollen and honeybee allergy. Allergy 1992;47:41-49.
4. BAUER L, KOHLICH A, HIRSCHWEHR R ET AL. Food allergy to honey: pollen or bee products?. J Allergy Clin Immunol 1996;97:65-73.
Last edited:
They seem simple enough but if you can not coem up with any definitions then I will assume that we are in agreement that the Qur'an says nothing particularly insightful about the embryological grown of humans. Or at leat not in a way you can easily understand. And, as I said before I will have to say it is incorrect (for those reasons outlined).7x7 said:
If this were from a God it could have easily worded a few scientific facts (such as DNA) in a way as to be understood by all. As this is not the case, I am left to say that similar to the honey, the Qur’an has just copied writings from earlier work (in this case embryological and Galen). And are not in anyway, anymore scientifically sound than his writings.
I was under the impression that the Prophet was given revelations from God. But whatever.7x7[COLOR=DarkOrange said:
In response, I would say: so what? Rats, birds, dogs, humans (basically all animals and many insects) carry disease too. By your reasoning we could also say that a human has disease under one arm and the cure under the other! Although I don’t know what dunking the human in some water is going to do
I’m positive that because flies live and breed on dead rotting putrid flesh that many ancient peoples made the simple connection that flies carry disease. So we must assume that the verse has more meaning than that.
Really, the more I read it the more I think this verse makes no sense. It’s like saying: “See that rabid dog over there eating the rotting animal and frothing blood at the mouth – well it carries disease”.
So what?
As that is almost meaningless, it comes down to the disease under one wing and cure under the other – which as you know just is not the case.
anonymous2
Registered Senior Member
Michael said:The center of what? The universe, the world, the city?7x7 said:My point that hajj is not a regular prayer. Hajj has it's stuff and no only walking around the kabba which geographic science proved that mecca is the center or lands.
Another coincidence ?
This is similar to an argument used by some Bible believers, that Israel is the "geographic center" (or close to it). That seems to be kind of arbitrary to me. After all, just what does one do with Antarctica, Australia, the New World, etc? Conveniently place them where one wants them to get the desired results?
7x7 is probably saying that Mecca is the "center of lands". I'd like 7x7 to show geographic evidence of this, after all, the earth is not some circle of continuous land where one can pinpoint an exact center.
Last edited:
Firstly, I was thinking of peoples in general (including ancient Greeks, Japanese, Hindu etc . . . ) However, even in your own writing you say: and that they would carry their prayers up to sky.7x7 said:
The sky aye?
Why I wounder?
Hmmmmm?
Maybe because they thought that God was in the sky and that the statues were somehow connected to the Gods. Gods liked the pretty Rocks.
AND, this idea of a rock having a special connection to God is still practiced in religions. Take the walking around the rock in Islam.
Like a God is going to give 2 cents about walking around a rock. I somehow doubt it. You yourself said a Muslim can prey anywhere, even in the sand. Yeah? So why are mosques so special? Why have Imams, etc . .. Why make pilgrimages to special rocks and walk around them? It's all pretty much the exact same thing as it was 5000 years ago only the names have changed.
Could it be that religious folk today are just like their "idol" worshiping ancient cousins? I personally don’t see much difference between the superstitious actions of the two.
But that just me and I'm atheist after all.
Oops sorry my mistake.7x7 said:
I entered honey into the search engine and that was all that came up.What I was going to say was this.
The verse makes no mention of just what honey is supposed to cure.
Either this is a big secret which god is keeping to himself or people already knew.
I suspect people already knew.
W
WildBlueYonder
Guest
most muslims that have come here to Sciforrums are far from open-minded,7x7 said:
to be open-minded, means to be fair, let ideas & thougts play,
that means that you would research all points, & if you were open-minded &
islam was found wanting, why, you would abandon it for the better idea or philosophy.
so Mr. Open-minded, can you grant that islam may be wrong, maybe a wee little bit or even a lie?
From:
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/open-minded
W
WildBlueYonder
Guest
using your link, if the quran says that bones are made first before flesh, it is wong. Both made together;7x7 said:
from your link here:
http://www.visembryo.com/baby/stage7.html
As to the following;
now that islam is in the West, it will be subjected to all the sciences, critiques & comparisons that have been used on the Bible. Islam can not stand, you will take offense, because the truth will be stark, bold & as pitiless as a mujahdeen beheading a hostage.
islam is a copy, a forgery, a tale twisted out of order, so that the very first surah given to Mohammad, is not even the first in the quran, nor is the last, last.
Mohammad did not know enough about Christianity or Judaism to explain them or comment on their practices, ways, beliefs, etc...
He messed the stories up, names, etc... Why he didn't even know God's true name; "YHWH",
so who is "allah"? why was he not mentioned in the Bible? could it be, because being an arab crescent-moon god, made him just another false idol & a false god? And we know from Mohammad's family, that allah was already a part of arab culture prior to Mohammad, not a god that suddenly announced his presence to a desert prophet.
islam has served well the motives and aims of arabs, conquering a large swat of the world. but the West will try to understand, assimilate, moderate it, it will not be the same, gone will be the 70 virgins, the jihad of war, intolerance of non-muslims, the idea of world-domination. Islam will then really mean "peace".
I've even heard that 'allah' may not have been Mohammad's name for god at first, it was "al-Rahman", then when he captured Mecca, he started using the name of Mecca's main god, you know, that crescent-moon god named 'allah'. That may be why the quran is not in chronological order, because then you could see the progression of Mohammad's thoughts, with his actions and fortunes in war & statesmanship as more of Arabia fell under his spell.
from:
http://www.ancient-history.nl/Islam...cription Of Names and Attributes Of Allah.htm