Interview with Christ...

[SnakeLord]

Well... it didn't happen once. So I could describe many.

Feel free to pick one at random..

This is something completely different. This is talking about those that worked for a better world. It is not talking about salvation.

Oh? So what's the reward, a bottle of wine and a box of chocolates?

Hahaha...
No... I wasn't talking about this "end of the world"

That's somewhat irrelevant to the point. You explained that "love will grow cold", because we are living in the end of times, and as a consequence violence isn't rare right now. But I am saying "love has been cold" since the beginnings of time. As I said, many women during the Inquisition could have easily considered that the end of times, and there's nothing to show violence is any worse than it ever has been. In 100 years time someone will probably be saying the exact same thing, that the current level of violence in the world shows it's the end time, they'll probably be saying the same thing in 1000 years aswell.

Have you ever read Revelations?

Yes.

Does it end with the planet exploding or something like that?

Pretty much, yes. (see below)

Nooooo. It ends with Heaven on Earth.

Rev 21 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; the first heaven and the first earth had disappeared now.

Some would probably say the new simply refers to "a new world without the sinners" and shit but..

Rev 6:12 ..when he broke the sixth seal, there was a violent earthquake and the sun went as black as coarse sackcloth; the moon turned red as blood all over. and the stars of the sky fell onto the earth like figs dropping from a fig tree..

Just so we can clarify... stars are bloody big and bloody hot. If one of them, let alone all of them, were to 'drop' on to the earth, there would be no planet earth anymore. That's a fact.

That's starting to happen right now.

And the evidence to suggest this is...?

No... seriously, the planet is such a shitpit because people are only worried about surviving and saving their asses

And that clearly shows our bond to the animal kingdom. We eat, we bonk, we survive- just like every animal, from bees to rhinos. It's nothing to be ashamed of, and nothing that can be avoided. The ability to survive is what has brought us this far.

 

[Qorl]

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[TheVisitor]

Yes people, I will seal 6th seal soon (6 and 9 are everywhere). When I do, it wont matter if you are a Christian, Muslim, Jewish or from any other religions. Everyone will have to believe in me as being an Alien Jesus Christ to be saved!
Qorl

I believe that would be "un-seal" or "open", the sixth seal........
English isn't your strong point is it.....?
Use a translater........I think even Alta-Vista could do a better job than this.
Of course, it is hard to find a good arabic-english site, but they are out there.
Obviously they have "stargate sg1" where you are.
I hope when you get a little older that you come to realize that Jesus is not a joke...........

 

[TruthSeeker]

Feel free to pick one at random..

Didn't I do that? Well... anyways. When you asked me that original question and God told me the answer, and I was surprised with the asnwer. Did I tell you that...?

Oh? So what's the reward, a bottle of wine and a box of chocolates?

Naaahh... I think it is more then that... I would say the Love of God.

That's somewhat irrelevant to the point. You explained that "love will grow cold", because we are living in the end of times, and as a consequence violence isn't rare right now. But I am saying "love has been cold" since the beginnings of time. As I said, many women during the Inquisition could have easily considered that the end of times, and there's nothing to show violence is any worse than it ever has been. In 100 years time someone will probably be saying the exact same thing, that the current level of violence in the world shows it's the end time, they'll probably be saying the same thing in 1000 years aswell.

Well, what is revelant is not the amount of violence, but how it is dealt with, and who is being violent. Violence became a form of entertainment. Also, the love of many Christians is growing cold, and that is sad. Violence became too "normal" for people. That is the sign of the end of times. It is how we react to it, more then what it actually happens. Not to mention that the world population is much bigger now, and the percentage of people suffering from some form of injustice has grown way too big.

Rev 21 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; the first heaven and the first earth had disappeared now.

Some would probably say the new simply refers to "a new world without the sinners" and shit but..

Rev 6:12 ..when he broke the sixth seal, there was a violent earthquake and the sun went as black as coarse sackcloth; the moon turned red as blood all over. and the stars of the sky fell onto the earth like figs dropping from a fig tree..

Just so we can clarify... stars are bloody big and bloody hot. If one of them, let alone all of them, were to 'drop' on to the earth, there would be no planet earth anymore. That's a fact.

How would you describe an airplane if you lived 2000 years ago? Metaphor? I would probably say that is a metaphor of some sort. If it is, which is probably the case, I still have no idea what it means. Maybe we should as "Jesus" about that...

And the evidence to suggest this is...?

Well... there are lots of scriptures that describe what is going on right now as the end of the earth. But I am at school now. I don't have time to go looking for them. Obviously, the clearest one is that love is growing cold.

And that clearly shows our bond to the animal kingdom. We eat, we bonk, we survive- just like every animal, from bees to rhinos. It's nothing to be ashamed of, and nothing that can be avoided. The ability to survive is what has brought us this far.

And don't care at all whether you are hurting other people or not? Do you call that evoltuion? I would say that is a regression...

 

[SnakeLord]

Didn't I do that? Well... anyways. When you asked me that original question and God told me the answer, and I was surprised with the asnwer. Did I tell you that...?

Unfortunately you didn't, but we are certainly progressing. Thus far, as I understand it, jesus doesn't actually speak or say anything, but he uses the different method of giving information directly to you. I then asked if you could tell me what that information entailed, but would understand otherwise if that was the case. You then said it didn't happen once, you could describe many. That was as far as we got..

Don't take it the wrong way or anything, I'm just interested to know what info he gives - life based, afterlife based, etc?

Naaahh... I think it is more then that... I would say the Love of God.

So judging by your works is whether you get the love of god or not? Remember, t's relevant to this:

" For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works."

In this instance though, wouldn't salvation itself play a large part in the 'love of god'?

Well, what is revelant is not the amount of violence, but how it is dealt with, and who is being violent.

Well, I see no real changing significance. There are still cain/abel kind of acts, but less hanging people from trees, mass violence and entire wars based on nothing of any real importance, (*cough*). Most certainly nobody gets crucified anymore for their beliefs, (to my knowledge).

Also, the love of many Christians is growing cold, and that is sad.

It's not that sad, after all- they are just as human as the rest of us. The only reason you'd even notice it is because too often they try to act as if they are something better than human.

That is the sign of the end of times.

Thus, the end of times could have been a thousand years ago, 100 years ago, 50 years ago, or in 1000 years time. It's mainly just a sign that humans are humans.

How would you describe an airplane if you lived 2000 years ago?

I'd say it was a god, and if I didn't bow down I'd get struck with lightning.

But, we're not talking about concorde, we're talking about stars. Sure, they most likely wouldn't have known they were actually big suns a long damn way away, my daughter doesn't know that either. As such along with the rest of the bible, they had no reason to get anything right, or to say anything that was actually factual. It reminds me very much of chicken licken, or whatever his name was. An acorn falls on his head, and he runs round shouting "the sky is falling". It comes from simply not knowing the facts.

Maybe we should as "Jesus" about that...

Sounds good.. Unfortunately I don't know his email address. As you're in contact with him, would you ask please?

Well... there are lots of scriptures that describe what is going on right now as the end of the earth.

Yeah it's ok, I don't expect you to go looking for them, I'm just trying to work out what would distinguish right now as being the end times, than at any other time in history.You say the clearest one is that love is growing cold, but I find this a bit one sided.

My love grows every single day for my wife and daughter. I am sure many many people will say the same thing. Love is out there - everywhere. Sure, there are people who do bad things, but love will never grow cold. Listen to the music charts, and you'll see love is the thing most sung about. Every single one of us has love for something or someone, and that most certainly beats some peoples hatred hands down.

And don't care at all whether you are hurting other people or not? Do you call that evoltuion? I would say that is a regression...

It depends how you view it. Mankind has wiped out enough species in the name of progress. While it's a real bastard for those who have been wiped out, it can be listed off as progression of species, (our species). Don't get me wrong... I hate anyone who so much as swears at an animal, but this isn't about personal feeling. It's about an entire species, and the only place this species is going is forwards and upwards - yes -even at the cost of other species and the natural beauty of this planet.

Qorl

So believe it or not, behind my grammar is hiding something much smarter than anyone could ever think about it.

The smartest you could ever hope to be is when you're smart enough that you don't have to tell anyone how smart you are.

 

[Godless]

So I see Qorl makes yet a bigger fool of himself. How adequate!. The idiot who thinks he's jesus, believes he is older than I. Have you forgotten fool! my name is God!. I created the heavens, the earth, and you!. I became Less than god, when I realized all that you!! Jesus, do is confuse the hell out of my "HUMANS" thus I fucked up by sending a kid, to do a man's job. So now I go by the name Godless, only becuase your sorry ass child had made me less, than I was before, I sent you to fuck it all up!.

Godless.

 

[Qorl]

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[SnakeLord]

SnakeLord;
Nobody believes who God is and who we are, just me myself and I. Well I already told you, but your mind is not capable to figure out something like that! As I see you and TruthSeeker are still in the beginning. Well I can't say beginning, you guys are at the same place that God started. In the beginning was word and word was with God. In the beginning was word and word was with SnakeLord and TruthSeeker. good name for a comedy
Guy's I'm much further!

With all due respect, but you come across as being a mere drivelling simpleton to every single person who reads anything you say. If you were smart, or that much "further", people would recognise it naturally, instead of you having to shout it out like a lonely boy in extreme need of companionship. I hate to say it, but majority rules.

I don't have too much information to work from in this case, but here is what I have concluded so far:

You most likely live in a one parent family. That parent most likely works a lot of hours to provide for your future, and to ensure there is food on the plate. You feel somewhat 'alone' because of this, and that rubs off into your general social life. At school, others regard you strangely, because of your inverted nature. It's possible you have or have had a girlfriend who was in to strange sense of dress, (like gothic). The pair of you were quite suited, deep, dark and moody, not understanding why society spat you out. Of course eventually she decided it was best to go your seperate ways, most likely down to your mental imbalance.

The only way you can justify being a loner to yourself, is by "imagining" you're from an alien race, or you're jesus, or sometimes on weekends you even imagine that you have magical powers. You sit there attempting to 'move' objects with your mind, and when you fail you simply chalk it up to lack of concentration.

Most people who suffer from this form of loneliness actually keep things to themselves, whereas you on the other hand seem to prefer turning yourself in to a giant walking advertisement board. You are looking for some form of recognition from others, in the hope it will prove to you that being alone in the world is quite ok - because you're special and because you're on a special mission.

Feel free to call my offices at any time of the day, and I shall arrange a free session.

 

[Godless]

Snake, you've called it well. This kid is screwed up in the head, he seeks attention, seems he does not get it at home, so he comes here pretending to be an "alien jesus" I hope he does not share this illusion with other friends in the physical world, were he would draw the attention of some shrink and put him on Prosac, to help with his apparent deppression, and the need to seek attention.

Godless.

 

[SnakeLord]

You know.. I don't think we even need to use the word 'pretending'. I'm sure a while back, Qorl started to ask himself questions over why he felt so different to everyone else, and why everyone else regarded him as different. What starts off as a simple self-targetted question, soon becomes a self-accepted truth. I don't think he is pretending, I feel the 'truth' of his 'personal self' is paramount. The minute it comes under doubt in his own mind, his esteem and very character would crumble like volcanic ash.

 

[TruthSeeker]

Unfortunately you didn't, but we are certainly progressing. Thus far, as I understand it, jesus doesn't actually speak or say anything, but he uses the different method of giving information directly to you. I then asked if you could tell me what that information entailed, but would understand otherwise if that was the case. You then said it didn't happen once, you could describe many. That was as far as we got..

Well... He always talk about Love. Everything comes down to that, it seems.

Don't take it the wrong way or anything, I'm just interested to know what info he gives - life based, afterlife based, etc?

I think He never told me anything about afterlife. I'm not interested to know anyways. I enjoy very much living in the present. I'm more worried with what is going on right now than what will go on when I die someday (even if this day is tomorrow...).

So judging by your works is whether you get the love of god or not? Remember, t's relevant to this:

" For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works."

In this instance though, wouldn't salvation itself play a large part in the 'love of god'?

I think the love of god was a bad answer. I think He Loves everybody. The Bible says that He sent His Son to die for the world's sins. So... no, Love is not a good answer. However, eternal life is a much better answer. It is written that some will get eternal life and some will get second death. And it seems it will be purely a matter of choice.

Well, I see no real changing significance. There are still cain/abel kind of acts, but less hanging people from trees, mass violence and entire wars based on nothing of any real importance, (*cough*). Most certainly nobody gets crucified anymore for their beliefs, (to my knowledge).

Well, I was pointing out the fact that violence became normal-day-life for people...

It's not that sad, after all- they are just as human as the rest of us. The only reason you'd even notice it is because too often they try to act as if they are something better than human.

Yeah, I guess so.

Thus, the end of times could have been a thousand years ago, 100 years ago, 50 years ago, or in 1000 years time. It's mainly just a sign that humans are humans.

Mass Destruction would have been a myth 200- years ago. Now, it is possible. Is that relevant to the possibility of the end of times being now? i think so...

I'd say it was a god, and if I didn't bow down I'd get struck with lightning.

But, we're not talking about concorde, we're talking about stars. Sure, they most likely wouldn't have known they were actually big suns a long damn way away, my daughter doesn't know that either. As such along with the rest of the bible, they had no reason to get anything right, or to say anything that was actually factual. It reminds me very much of chicken licken, or whatever his name was. An acorn falls on his head, and he runs round shouting "the sky is falling". It comes from simply not knowing the facts.

She doesn't know it yet? Cute. How old is she?

Sounds good.. Unfortunately I don't know his email address. As you're in contact with him, would you ask please?

Yeah, sure. Whenever I read the question again... I forgot what we were talking about...?

Yeah it's ok, I don't expect you to go looking for them, I'm just trying to work out what would distinguish right now as being the end times, than at any other time in history.You say the clearest one is that love is growing cold, but I find this a bit one sided.

My love grows every single day for my wife and daughter. I am sure many many people will say the same thing. Love is out there - everywhere. Sure, there are people who do bad things, but love will never grow cold. Listen to the music charts, and you'll see love is the thing most sung about. Every single one of us has love for something or someone, and that most certainly beats some peoples hatred hands down.

I hope so. But again, I find that most people nowdays have a very selfish love. People are usually thinking about themselves instead of others. The Love I'm talking about should be selfless and should be for everyone, not just for the ones close to you.

It depends how you view it. Mankind has wiped out enough species in the name of progress. While it's a real bastard for those who have been wiped out, it can be listed off as progression of species, (our species). Don't get me wrong... I hate anyone who so much as swears at an animal, but this isn't about personal feeling. It's about an entire species, and the only place this species is going is forwards and upwards - yes -even at the cost of other species and the natural beauty of this planet.

Well, it is not just about the beauty and other species. We need those other species to balance the ecosystem. And we can't possibly produce lots of garbage as we are doing. The planet can't take it. It can take oil in the oceans, it can't take radioactive waste and it can't take carthode tubes being left on dumps. I think we should take more care of our home...

 

[Qorl]

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[SnakeLord]

Well... He always talk about Love. Everything comes down to that, it seems.

That's most certainly a good quality subject.

I think the love of god was a bad answer. I think He Loves everybody. The Bible says that He sent His Son to die for the world's sins. So... no, Love is not a good answer. However, eternal life is a much better answer. It is written that some will get eternal life and some will get second death. And it seems it will be purely a matter of choice.

And thus: salvation. No?

And thus to argue the starting point, where you said "You are saved by grace, and not by works...". The passage I used goes against that, does it not?

Well, I was pointing out the fact that violence became normal-day-life for people...

That depends how you view it. I don't watch TV or read the newspaper, and as such violence isn't a part of normal day life for me. Of course, the reason we can say violence is a part of normal day life is purely thanks to our ability to communicate across the world instantaneously, and to show the entire world everything from the comfort of their living rooms. I'm sure violence was just a normal everyday occurence throughout the entirety of human history, it's just there was no real media with which to show everyone.

My daughter watches Tom and Jerry - and that is as gratuitously violent as a programme can get, but that doesn't mean she'll ever consider violence right- whether she ends up religious or not. The bible is full to the brim with acts of pure violence, and hatred aswell, but it doesn't mean everyone is therefore violent - leaving a conclusion that it's the end of times.

The knowledge of violence is available to everyone - but there is nothing to suggest violence and hatred are any different to how they ever have been.

Mass Destruction would have been a myth 200- years ago. Now, it is possible. Is that relevant to the possibility of the end of times being now? i think so...

Well, humans must have been that bad at one stage - they all got wiped out because of what they were doing. Furthermore, mass destruction has always been available to mankind. Ok, man has made it a lot quicker to accomplish nowadays, (the push of a button), but people managed just as well back in the old days.

She doesn't know it yet? Cute. How old is she?

Is this where I say 4, and then you tell me I can't compare a 4 year old girl to grown men?

I hope so. But again, I find that most people nowdays have a very selfish love. People are usually thinking about themselves instead of others. The Love I'm talking about should be selfless and should be for everyone, not just for the ones close to you.

Not a supporter of quality over quantity? Personally I would rather spend more time and energy loving my daughter, than sharing that love with the paedophile up the road.

Well, it is not just about the beauty and other species. We need those other species to balance the ecosystem.

Indeed we do. Technological advancements often give man a 'safety net' for his actions. When man destroys the land, he creates biospheres, (just an example). I would fully agree with you its bad, and would much rather see the world as it should be. You know, there are are meager 5% left of the Blue Whale population that was around 20 years ago. Back in the 60's, the Southern White Rhino population numbered a total of 10. Not thousands, or hundreds even - just 10 known surviving southern white rhinos. Man had all but eliminated them from this planet. Other humans jumped in and saved them. There are now a few thousand.

In many cases however, man wouldn't have progressed as much as he has without actions like this. It's tragic, yes - but inevitable.

Of course, this isn't aided by god in any way - after all, it was he who told the religious masses that they were above the animals, the rulers of them even. I go to many many protests from chopping trees down to fox hunting and not once have I seen a religious person defending animal life, but I have seen many on the other side of the fence - happy to end the lives of those animals. The attitude I see all the time is simply that they are better than the animals.

Your whole "love should be selfless and for everyone", doesn't include the animal population of this planet, or does it?

And we can't possibly produce lots of garbage as we are doing. The planet can't take it. It can take oil in the oceans, it can't take radioactive waste and it can't take carthode tubes being left on dumps. I think we should take more care of our home...

I agree. Eventually man will kill this planet, then they'll just move on to the next one. NASA are planning to send humans to study Mars in 2009. It is simply an inevitable outcome. We wont see it in our lifetimes, but eventually man will be out there.

Qorl

My theory is unique that's why people can't recognize it.

Theory? Whatever that 'theory' is, I'd state it shouldn't be a theory if you're actually jesus or god. You'd already 'know' it to be true. Ok, in science you could use the term 'theory' to describe something that is generally accepted as being true, but we're not talking science here.

In school I was always in the the middle of the attention. I was the best in sports and everybody likes me wherever I went. I am not alone I have 100 of friends and they know me all over the world.

Then I would question what you're doing wrong here.

Nobody regard me strangely

Again I would question what you're doing wrong here.

But news spread in small town really fast, they know that I went in America and that you (US) throw me out worse than a criminal.

I'm English, not American.

My imagination is really big, but I know the difference between mentally illness and craziness.

I'd be interested to hear how you differentiate it.

I never think about me as Jesus nor Alien, but I find out who I am and when I start reading and studying it was really easy. I start getting messages and many other things... By the way in the Bible and in all other prophecies is 100 of my personal signs.

Millions of people are, and have been, in the same position. David Koresh is just one example. Are they as "real" as you, or are they just fakes?

I don't think that anyone in this planet will ever archived what I did.

Which is what exactly?

Anyway's I know how and what are you thinking about me. I know it's unbelievable and it will be hard for me to believe if someone will claim to be a Jesus, even harder an Alien Jesus Christ!

Alas, it's more 'easy' these days than hard. Need I mention David Koresh again? However, something is not true because someone says it is. You must acknowledge the need for proof of such claims. What if I now tell you I am actually jesus, and I'm making you just think you are to keep you happy? Believe me?

I will like to help to this world - this make me an alien and Jesus Christ!

There are many people who like to help this world, it does not make you anything other than someone who wants to help the world.

Yes I am different and I'm not from this world! I am sure about that now.

I don't doubt you believe that for a second.

 

[TruthSeeker]

And thus: salvation. No?

And thus to argue the starting point, where you said "You are saved by grace, and not by works...". The passage I used goes against that, does it not?

I don't understnad where you are getting at. My point is that you receive the salvation if you want. It is a present. It is given to you. You can throw away if you want, but it is given to you.

That depends how you view it. I don't watch TV or read the newspaper, and as such violence isn't a part of normal day life for me. Of course, the reason we can say violence is a part of normal day life is purely thanks to our ability to communicate across the world instantaneously, and to show the entire world everything from the comfort of their living rooms. I'm sure violence was just a normal everyday occurence throughout the entirety of human history, it's just there was no real media with which to show everyone.

My daughter watches Tom and Jerry - and that is as gratuitously violent as a programme can get, but that doesn't mean she'll ever consider violence right- whether she ends up religious or not. The bible is full to the brim with acts of pure violence, and hatred aswell, but it doesn't mean everyone is therefore violent - leaving a conclusion that it's the end of times.

The knowledge of violence is available to everyone - but there is nothing to suggest violence and hatred are any different to how they ever have been.

People react to violence in a bad way... that's all. People are indifferent. Not to mention that you are an exception. Most people watch the news and they don't care whether thousands die on Africa as long as they have their toys to play... This is the sign... the love that grows cold. People not carrying at all. people fighting for nothing. Many suffering and a few that has too much and don't care.

Well, humans must have been that bad at one stage - they all got wiped out because of what they were doing. Furthermore, mass destruction has always been available to mankind. Ok, man has made it a lot quicker to accomplish nowadays, (the push of a button), but people managed just as well back in the old days.

Not so. If people were killed in Europe, that were still people somwhere else. There was no real mass destruction. Not to mention that the planet would still exist, while if you press the wrong button nowdays... we "puf"...

Is this where I say 4, and then you tell me I can't compare a 4 year old girl to grown men?

No. i was just asking because kids are cute. Awww. Do you ahve a picture of her?

Not a supporter of quality over quantity? Personally I would rather spend more time and energy loving my daughter, than sharing that love with the paedophile up the road.

If everyone was loved, there would be no violence in this wolrd. And you are talking with someone that conquered hatred through many years of indifference and rejection from others...

Indeed we do. Technological advancements often give man a 'safety net' for his actions. When man destroys the land, he creates biospheres, (just an example). I would fully agree with you its bad, and would much rather see the world as it should be. You know, there are are meager 5% left of the Blue Whale population that was around 20 years ago. Back in the 60's, the Southern White Rhino population numbered a total of 10. Not thousands, or hundreds even - just 10 known surviving southern white rhinos. Man had all but eliminated them from this planet. Other humans jumped in and saved them. There are now a few thousand.
In many cases however, man wouldn't have progressed as much as he has without actions like this. It's tragic, yes - but inevitable.

Yeah... thinsg can change. But I'm stressing that we sjould work on it.

Of course, this isn't aided by god in any way - after all, it was he who told the religious masses that they were above the animals, the rulers of them even. I go to many many protests from chopping trees down to fox hunting and not once have I seen a religious person defending animal life, but I have seen many on the other side of the fence - happy to end the lives of those animals. The attitude I see all the time is simply that they are better than the animals.

He told us to rule over the animals to take care of them, not to destroy them. That's a serious common misconception...

Your whole "love should be selfless and for everyone", doesn't include the animal population of this planet, or does it?

It definetely does.

I agree. Eventually man will kill this planet, then they'll just move on to the next one. NASA are planning to send humans to study Mars in 2009. It is simply an inevitable outcome. We wont see it in our lifetimes, but eventually man will be out there.

Sadly enough... possibily will happen. Hopefully not.

 

[SnakeLord]

I don't understnad where you are getting at

Oh, recap: You said salvation was by grace and not by works, I put a quote from the bible that said it was from works, you said that wasn't referring to salvation, I asked if perhaps it was referring to chocolates and wine, you said love, i responded, you said it wasn't love but eternal life, (and thus salvation).

So, we come right back to the beginning, where It would seem salvation comes from works, just as much as it would from grace.

My point is that you receive the salvation if you want.

Depending on your works.

People react to violence in a bad way... that's all.

I don't think so. I recently spoke to a reporter from the NYT, who claimed that GTA caused real life violence. Just as with you, I told him about Tom and Jerry and showed that just because someone sees violence doesn't mean they'll go out and inflict violence, or even agree with any act of violence. The reporter used a story of a young lad who played GTA, (grand theft auto), and then went out shooting cars and people. He said the product had made him act violently, and that violence based games like GTA should be banned.

I read about a guy who thought he was superman. He jumped out of his bedroom window, went *splat* on the floor and that was the end of that.

We could blame superman products for this, or we could point to the where the problem originates: The persons brain.

There are "ill" people on this planet, who will be violent, and possibly act on other violence that they see in the media. We have a field of medicine to try and help these people - but the majority of us are fine, and have no impulsions to be violent or to condone it. In saying this, we also have a justice system instead of the simple old solution of hanging or crucifying people.

You say people are indifferent to violence, but again I would be inclined to disagree. The debates that were caused during the whole Iraq war were massive. Many people said "no war", based upon the principle that all life is worthy, and that innocents would die. Nobody is under the illusion that Saddam was innocent, but nobody wanted to see anyone die because of it.

You say people don't care about the dying in Africa.. Every year in England we have Red Nose Day, and many other "appeals" which gather money from people all over our country to help out those dying in Africa, (even while neglecting our own homeless people). This is how selfless people can be.

Not so. If people were killed in Europe, that were still people somwhere else. There was no real mass destruction. Not to mention that the planet would still exist, while if you press the wrong button nowdays... we "puf"..

There are some that state the Inquisition ended upto 9 million lives. How many were killed during world war 1 or 2? Sure, nuclear weapons can cause much greater damage, but mass destruction comes in many guises.

No. i was just asking because kids are cute. Awww. Do you ahve a picture of her?

Yeah, about 1000.

If everyone was loved, there would be no violence in this wolrd.

The most basic ideal of daydreamers. Actually it reminds me of the X Files when Mulder finds a genie and wishes for peace on earth. The earth gets emptied of humans However it just isn't feasible.

What happens when the human I love kills an animal that I also love so he can eat it? (wouldn't this instantly cause an argument between nature loving people and meat eating people)?

You say love everyone, but the only way that would work is if we were all exactly the same person.

Yeah... thinsg can change. But I'm stressing that we sjould work on it.

And people do try, (in their own individual way). Sure, there are people that don't give a damn, but there are people that do.

He told us to rule over the animals to take care of them, not to destroy them.

Are you a vegan?

It definetely does.

But then if you truly and selflessly loved animals as much as a human you wouldn't agree with the whole "rule over them" concept. Poor horse having to slave for humanity, poor cows having to provide their milk for our consumption etc etc etc. Sure, we rule over them, if we loved them, we wouldn't rule over them- we'd be equal to them.

Sadly enough... possibily will happen. Hopefully not.

Well it wouldn't be such a problem. Let's say man managed to inhabit Mars. It is devoid of natural life and vegetation. There's nothing to hope against, unless you consider the planet to have feelings?

 

[Qorl]

...........................

 

[TruthSeeker]

What!?!? What happened with all that I wrote yesterday!!
Ahh...! Ok... I will answer it all over again... :bugeye:

 

[TruthSeeker]

Oh, recap: You said salvation was by grace and not by works, I put a quote from the bible that said it was from works, you said that wasn't referring to salvation, I asked if perhaps it was referring to chocolates and wine, you said love, i responded, you said it wasn't love but eternal life, (and thus salvation).

It depends on your definition of 'works'. It can be a tricky definition... Keep reading... I'll take about that on the next quote...

So, we come right back to the beginning, where It would seem salvation comes from works, just as much as it would from grace.

Ok... let me see if I remember what I wrote yesterday...
God gave us the gift of salvation through Christ. All that you need to do is to receive that gift. you don't need to try to be perfect, through your works. If you would go to heaven only by your works, you would never go to heaven, because you are not perfect, your works are not perfect. That's why God gave us the gift of salvation. This is God's grace. He doesn't expect us to be perfect, He only expect us to accept His gift. And this is an option. You can either receive it or not. That's all the "work" that you need to do - receive it or not. That doesn't mean that Christ came to nullify the Law. Not really. He came to fulfill the Law for us.
This whole "works" thing is like the "Law" thing. You need to look it in the right perspective. The thing that you need to know is that we are not under the Law anymore, but that doesn't mean that we should forget about the Law. The Law still exists, but we still go to Heaven if we don't follow it. However, you still don't have a very good time on earth if you don't follow it.

Depending on your works.

Only your existence on earth is affected by your works.

I don't think so. I recently spoke to a reporter from the NYT, who claimed that GTA caused real life violence. Just as with you, I told him about Tom and Jerry and showed that just because someone sees violence doesn't mean they'll go out and inflict violence, or even agree with any act of violence. The reporter used a story of a young lad who played GTA, (grand theft auto), and then went out shooting cars and people. He said the product had made him act violently, and that violence based games like GTA should be banned.

I read about a guy who thought he was superman. He jumped out of his bedroom window, went *splat* on the floor and that was the end of that.

We could blame superman products for this, or we could point to the where the problem originates: The persons brain.

I understand what you are saying and agree with that...

There are "ill" people on this planet, who will be violent, and possibly act on other violence that they see in the media. We have a field of medicine to try and help these people - but the majority of us are fine, and have no impulsions to be violent or to condone it. In saying this, we also have a justice system instead of the simple old solution of hanging or crucifying people.

Not all violent people are ill. I would even say only a little portion of the violent people is violent because they are ill. Btw... I don't think "justice" really exists in this world. It seems to me that the rich can always buy their "innocence"...

You say people are indifferent to violence, but again I would be inclined to disagree. The debates that were caused during the whole Iraq war were massive. Many people said "no war", based upon the principle that all life is worthy, and that innocents would die. Nobody is under the illusion that Saddam was innocent, but nobody wanted to see anyone die because of it.

People are indifferent to everyday violence...
People are also indifferent to violence in Africa. Does anybody talk about the wars that always go on in Africa? Part of it is influence of the media.
I still think violence has become entertainment for most people...

You say people don't care about the dying in Africa.. Every year in England we have Red Nose Day, and many other "appeals" which gather money from people all over our country to help out those dying in Africa, (even while neglecting our own homeless people). This is how selfless people can be.

I have never heard about such thing.
So... you give money to help people in Africa and you don't help people around you? Well... it would make more sense that you would help people around you first, not to mention that you can actually DO something about it instead of just giving money to some people to do it.

There are some that state the Inquisition ended upto 9 million lives. How many were killed during world war 1 or 2? Sure, nuclear weapons can cause much greater damage, but mass destruction comes in many guises.

But it can be much faster nowdays...

Yeah, about 1000.

Show us one!

The most basic ideal of daydreamers. Actually it reminds me of the X Files when Mulder finds a genie and wishes for peace on earth. The earth gets emptied of humans However it just isn't feasible.

Why not? If you don't believe in it from the beginning, than you are already defeated...!

What happens when the human I love kills an animal that I also love so he can eat it? (wouldn't this instantly cause an argument between nature loving people and meat eating people)?

That would never happen. Love implies that you won't hurt someone that you love in any way.

You say love everyone, but the only way that would work is if we were all exactly the same person.

Not really. In fact, human being have only two main difficulties with Loving:

• Accepting and embracing variety
• Recognizing that everyone is imperfect

And people do try, (in their own individual way). Sure, there are people that don't give a damn, but there are people that do.

Yeah, sure...

Are you a vegan?

No. That's not the point. Keep reading...

But then if you truly and selflessly loved animals as much as a human you wouldn't agree with the whole "rule over them" concept. Poor horse having to slave for humanity, poor cows having to provide their milk for our consumption etc etc etc. Sure, we rule over them, if we loved them, we wouldn't rule over them- we'd be equal to them.

By "rule over" I mean that we should take care, not abuse them. Sure we can eat them. Death is part of life. Only because we kill them, that doesn't mean that we don't care for them. If we hunt them and live them there, than and only than that would be considered wrong. And of course, other things such as using cows as machines...

Well it wouldn't be such a problem. Let's say man managed to inhabit Mars. It is devoid of natural life and vegetation. There's nothing to hope against, unless you consider the planet to have feelings?

Yeah sure... but it would be sad if we would have destroyed out own planet...

 

[SnakeLord]

This is God's grace. He doesn't expect us to be perfect, He only expect us to accept His gift. And this is an option. You can either receive it or not. That's all the "work" that you need to do - receive it or not.

Ok, I'll take it, thanks. That's it, I'm saved now? Well, that certainly wasn't as hard as I might have previously thought. Still, I'm glad you told me when you did - I was about to sacrifice a cow

Not all violent people are ill. I would even say only a little portion of the violent people is violent because they are ill.

Sure but I view it like this..

I like the Eagles music, (Hotel California etc). I never sat down and said to myself "Snake, you're going to like the Eagles", it's something that can't be avoided. This can be said with anything.. Do you know why you like lamb, (example)?

By the same token, these people don't sit down and say "I want to be the kind of guy who likes being violent", it is a natural part of them and they have no choice in the matter.

Do me favour and read Mark Twain's 'What is man?'

I agree very much with that, and that might help you to understand what I'm getting at better than I have been able to type it.

Or, from his story 'Thou shalt not kill':

--------

Excerpt:

The Ten Commandments were made for man alone. We should think it strange if they had been made for all the animals.

We should say "Thou shalt not kill" is too general, too sweeping. It includes the field mouse and the butterfly. They can't kill. And it includes the tiger, which can't help it.

It is a case of Temperament and Circumstance again. You can arrange no circumstances that can move the field mouse and the butterfly to kill; their temperaments will ill keep them unaffected by temptations to kill, they can avoid that crime without an effort. But it isn't so with the tiger. Throw a lamb in his way when he is hungry, and his temperament will compel him to kill it.

Butterflies and field mice are common among men; they can't kill, their temperaments make it impossible. There are tigers among men, also. Their temperaments move them to violence, and when Circumstance furnishes the opportunity and the powerful motive, they kill. They can't help it.

--------

Excerpt:

--------

He loved to kill. It was his temperament. He did not make his temperament, God gave it him at his birth. Gave it him and said Thou shalt not kill. It was like saying Thou shalt not eat. Both appetites were given him at birth. He could be obedient and starve both up to a certain point, but that was as far as he could go.

--------

Btw... I don't think "justice" really exists in this world. It seems to me that the rich can always buy their "innocence"...

The great corruptable world of justice, that serves just as much injustice Still, I would submit it as being somewhat more reliable than older methods.

People are indifferent to everyday violence...
People are also indifferent to violence in Africa. Does anybody talk about the wars that always go on in Africa? Part of it is influence of the media.
I still think violence has become entertainment for most people...

In these kind of instances we're not talking about 'people', we're talking about government and politics. I guess any person can fly over to Africa, walk into the middle of a war zone professing love for his fellow man. He will undoubtedly get shot..

Swiftly.

Solution usually comes in the form of armed forces, which often cause a lot of deaths, (even innocent deaths), to help achieve that peace and love we speak of.

And yes, violence is entertainment. Is there anyone who didn't like Commando? Worst acting film you'll ever see, but a great film nonetheless. What would you propose be a better way? That man see no violence? A kind of see no evil, hear no evil? To even consider that there could be a planet of people who have nothing but love for each other, is daydreaming plain and simple.

So... you give money to help people in Africa and you don't help people around you?

Not me personally, but that's how the organisers go about it. £100+ (m) per year in red nose day, and it all goes abroad. Bizarre.

Well... it would make more sense that you would help people around you first, not to mention that you can actually DO something about it instead of just giving money to some people to do it.

Yeah, try telling them that

Show us one!

No offence to you personally, but there are strange people out there who would perhaps get a little too excited over a photo of a 4 year old.

Why not? If you don't believe in it from the beginning, than you are already defeated...!

Disagreement leads to conflict, that's the way it is. You can't expect a vegan to get along with a meat eater, a parent to get along with a paedophile, or a religious man to get along with an atheist.

The only way you can really have peace is if everyone is identical, which i've already stated. You can't make people something that they are not.

That would never happen. Love implies that you won't hurt someone that you love in any way.

That still leaves a problem with our vegan and our meat eater. The meat eater loves the vegan who loves animals, and as such the meat eater can't kill the animal because it would hurt the vegan. Basically, it all comes down to the same thing that all men must be identical.

Not really. In fact, human being have only two main difficulties with Loving:
Accepting and embracing variety

So you accept and embrace the variety of a paedophile, even though his very actions would hurt you- which you said wouldn't be done in any way by someone who loves, which means he'd have to not be a paedophile, which means there is no accepting or embracing variety because he'd actually be the same as you.

That is just one example, but it works for every example available. The only way anyone could do anything that doesn't hurt anyone else is if everyone does exactly the same things, which makes variety null and void.

Recognizing that everyone is imperfect

Everyone should understand this, including the religious man who would tell people to love everyone. Imperfect people cannot be expected to love everyone - because they're imperfect, and you have to accept and embrace their variety of not loving anyone - which leaves little point in telling them they should love everyone. If you truly embraced their variety, you'd never even try telling them to love everyone.

By "rule over" I mean that we should take care, not abuse them. Sure we can eat them.

Sure you can eat them? The vegan disagrees. You are exterminating those which the vegan loves.

 

[Qorl]

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