Info on heaven

wellwisher said:
An interesting set of heaven symbolism is in revelations 21-2. What happens is a slice of heaven descends to the earth; heavenly Jerusalem descending like a bride from heaven. Instead of heaven being in a place where the physical body cannot go, the two planes merge.
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The slice of heaven is what I am not certain about, does the whole mountain of 1500 miles square come down or just a portion of it? Several sources suggest that a new mountain is created for the city to settle on, some say a great plain is made first, or that a great mountain becomes a plain. See Zechariah 14:4.
The two planes merging, I have heard that happens on a smaller scale to the human body prior to entry of heaven, you get an upgrade.
 
Just a few bits to add,
The gates are visible from outer space, so they are not insignificant. Set in the wall that obscures the view, they reach a height of about thirty stories, or the height of the wall. The mountain falls back over the horizon like a distant planet, the summit over 1000 miles away.
The doors or gates are made of a single pearl stone or moon stone, that emits some light. Given the sample measurements in Ezekiel, they are 3 yards thick and about 20 yards wide, which would bring their total weight to well over 6000 tons.
They hang on blue glittering 'stone' hinges from a yard wide crimson frame.
On either side are pillars of gold, over three yards wide each, carved and formed into palm trees, the leaves forming the arches.
Inside the wall the arches are repeated two or three times with golden rooms 4 yards wide in between. After 30 yards or so, they give way to a reception room 50 yards square that opens the view to heaven.

Each gate is about 500 miles from the next, and has symbols, and subtle design changes and colors to represent one of the twelve tribes.
Every person who enters heaven comes under their assigned tribe. The land from the gate to the summit is their allotted country which contains a major city and villages. The land at the top is shared. Their are no boundaries as to which country you want to visit.

I don't know the criteria for tribal allotment, but the personal and new family connections would be more enduring and meaningful than on earth, simply because so many people have been disowned by their families, and many others don't have one.
 
We have only covered the very basics, the common features mentioned in beliefs. There are about twenty main topics and the temple is one of them. It seems to be exclusive to Israel and the Jewish people, simply referred to as "the temple" or "Holy place."

This is where the throne of God is often claimed to be in. "Often" because the throne has also been pictured in other locations, including above earth, or not in the temple. Islamic writings describe such a Holy place and or places.

According to some, the Jewish Sanctuary was a replica of the greater one in heaven, including a replica of all the furniture like the ark. The original, and possibly only, ark of the Jewish temple went missing just before the Assyrians took Jerusalem captive. All the furniture was carried into Babylon, then returned 70 years later, then stolen again by the Romans in 70 AD. But the ark is missing, and some Ethiopians claim it is hidden under their care. It has not been found as yet, and claims of finding it are false to date (June 2012).

It is interesting that temples of different faiths all over the world, including Catholicism, replicate the simple layout and placement of its furnishings.

The whole temple is the crux of all relationships between heaven and earth, and was the centre of the ancient Jewish economy. It has to be the most detailed area of heaven. A separate book could be written on it.
 
We have only covered the very basics, the common features mentioned in beliefs. There are about twenty main topics and the temple is one of them. It seems to be exclusive to Israel and the Jewish people, simply referred to as "the temple" or "Holy place."

This is where the throne of God is often claimed to be in. "Often" because the throne has also been pictured in other locations, including above earth, or not in the temple. Islamic writings describe such a Holy place and or places.

According to some, the Jewish Sanctuary was a replica of the greater one in heaven, including a replica of all the furniture like the ark. The original, and possibly only, ark of the Jewish temple went missing just before the Assyrians took Jerusalem captive. All the furniture was carried into Babylon, then returned 70 years later, then stolen again by the Romans in 70 AD. But the ark is missing, and some Ethiopians claim it is hidden under their care. It has not been found as yet, and claims of finding it are false to date (June 2012).

It is interesting that temples of different faiths all over the world, including Catholicism, replicate the simple layout and placement of its furnishings.

The whole temple is the crux of all relationships between heaven and earth, and was the centre of the ancient Jewish economy. It has to be the most detailed area of heaven. A separate book could be written on it.
 
kx000 said:
This thread is silly. No one has a credible source.
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Apart from the lack of credible sources, what do you think and why? People are a credible source, just like you.
A document has not lived life like you, a document is wall paper. You are thousands of books in one library.
 
Gerhard Kemmerer said:
Apart from the lack of credible sources, what do you think and why? People are a credible source, just like you.
A document has not lived life like you, a document is wall paper. You are thousands of books in one library.
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I think its there, and I was there.
 
kx000 said:
I think its there, and I was there.
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Its incredible how much evidence of lifes experience is lost by the owners. But that cannot invalidate it.

Speaking about libraries, the temple has a special throne room, which must be large enough for twenty four other thrones, arranged in a square around the throne, seven on each side. Apparently these are for human beings. Here are records containing the details of every life, from the child who fell to the ground in Africa with no name, to the famous. From before birth to the last breath, every thought, experience and feeling. Every trial, every hardship and goodtime. Every word and relationship. A complete record.

Someone in an earlier post said that this whole discussion of heaven has too many implications without addressing the philosophical aspects. And they are spot on.

But I started the thread with the intention of keeping it clear of those issues, because of misapprehensions in human thought and traditions.

Having mentioned the records, I must briefly say that they are kept for the sake of the person concerned and not some bloody minded regime. What is more, you can have your record permanently edited. The whole ceremonial year of the Jewish temple service holds all the keys to that information, because its annual services are symbolic of the one time only service in heaven, which lasts for about 2000 years. That Jewish system finished when the real took over about 34 AD, it was only ever a reminder of something in the future.

Now of course, the Israelites were not the only religion to have this type of a religious system that involved a temple and related ceremonies, but others only carry part of those rituals or elements, and perversions of it, like human sacrifice.

I found it impossible to avoid this temple structure and system in heaven. But it is interesting that if heaven is involved with the affairs of men, then the dynamics of that government would be proof of its existence. Apart from that, it remains a fading legend.
 
You want details of the dynamics of a heavenly body? I can help with that, so can you. We can show there is a perfect system of governing.
 
There are three more aspects I would like to share, the throne, misc geographical features, and its history.

The throne is white, on a sapphire blue pavement, that covers "stones of fire." Whether there is a stairway or not is uncertain, but the stones of fire can be walked up and down on. Under the throne, or beside it, is a golden ark which is said to contain writings on stone. These have never changed and never do. Going mostly by Judaism and Christianity, they are the ten laws of God.

Around the throne are four creatures about 4 yards tall, with two of three sets of wings each, they stand in a square and underneath or beside them are complex rings which are a visual representation of all cycles of action and reaction, both in the physical world and spiritual. The meaning and detail of these is very revealing of how freedom is maintained, but they also prove how impossible it is to survive retribution of violating those principles, outside of the plan of redemption. The creatures are human like, with human like hands and legs, but their heads are disguised by four faces each, with the face of a man always outward.

The throne when occupied shows an amber light or fire surrounding the Deity, Who has brass or gold coloured feet, the face as bright as the sun, and a full sphere of a rainbow in reverse order of colours, predominantly emerald. Lightning runs continuously out from the fire, and through the stones etc. The sound is that of a powerful waterfall or as said, a million voices, like in a stadium I suppose.

Under the throne on the south side is a stream of water that flows along the southern wall of the temple and out of the courtyard. It increases in volume and depth and eventually divides into four main rivers, each watering a cardinal domain. More detail of those rivers later.
 
Gerhard Kemmerer said:
I am interested, surely someone has already started a thread to continue that topic?
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Got to go to work for now. I'll process some thoughts. First and foremost will be the heavenly king. It may take a while to have enough to post on, or to just begin my theory. It will;l go into the politics forum unless anyone has an objection. No religious text is to be used unless I site it as my own faith, free of any conformed church.
 
While studying the temple from various sources, I discovered that its outer appearance is either silver or sky blue, possibly silver reflecting the sky.
I estimate its size to be at least 2 miles long, and a third of that wide, based on the layout of its interior furnishings and the number of people/thrones in it. The footings are solid silver supporting walls up to 30 cubits/15yards thick?
The walls are made of a solid gold interior which reflects any light into infinity, like a sea of light. But the walls are multi-layered, beginning with a gold interior, then cedar, then 4 other layers, including the silver exterior. Heavily insulated?

This is all very well, and I have never been able to fathom the significance of the replica on earth, let alone anything unseen.

The Jewish temple built by Solomon, was no doubt the most magnificent building this world has ever seen.

What confounds me is a contradiction, something uncharacteristic, more so for the one in heaven, for this reason - the essence of the earthly model was the sacrificial lamb, which provided food for the priests, that's bearable, but in heaven there is no obvious sacrifice, only something wrong...

The lightning and noise in the place is not regular, but sometimes the place is quiet, and at other times, the lightning and thunder becomes so intense that the pillars and walls of the temple shake, and everyone has to leave. What has this commotion to do with the source of life and peace?
 
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kx000 said:
Got to go to work for now. I'll process some thoughts. First and foremost will be the heavenly king. It may take a while to have enough to post on, or to just begin my theory. It will;l go into the politics forum unless anyone has an objection. No religious text is to be used unless I site it as my own faith, free of any conformed church.
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Looking forward to what you have.
 
Gerhard Kemmerer said:
Looking forward to what you have.
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What are your thoughts on a global king? Is it valuable to have a man with all out power, given if it is the most able man or woman on earth? Is a king significant for our progress as a planet? Can we all be kings and queens with full power over the kingdom? What about a king of kings?

Also, what about a segregation of good, and evil? A. Is it possible? B. Is there evil to be segregated?

If good, and evil is not observed by you then explain to me a "grey" theory of natural equality.

Thoughts, please and thank you.
 
kx000 said:
What are your thoughts on a global king? Is it valuable to have a man with all out power, given if it is the most able man or woman on earth? Is a king significant for our progress as a planet? Can we all be kings and queens with full power over the kingdom? What about a king of kings?

Also, what about a segregation of good, and evil? A. Is it possible? B. Is there evil to be segregated?

If good, and evil is not observed by you then explain to me a "grey" theory of natural equality.

Thoughts, please and thank you.
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Did you want to start a new thread? What about in the philosophy section? Its a good question, but it involves views on law, politics, idealisms, utopianism, psychology, history etc. The topic is related to heaven, but I wanted to stick with the physical side of the legend, and I know I have stepped over that line too. I was hoping to bring this thread to a summerised closure, seeing that there is not too much info on heaven floating around - pardon the pun.
 
kx000 said:
Thoughts, please and thank you.
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Kingship on earth is based on power, the most testosterone, influence, money, cunning, and even ability.

But Kingship in heaven is the opposite, it is based on service, so people like the dear African slaves we imported will inherit whole cities and provinces, whereas the cruel slave master will probably not be suitable for anything. The legend has it that when the human race sits down to eat for the first time that God walks around the tables serving. It's an upside down world.
 
Gerhard Kemmerer said:
Did you want to start a new thread? What about in the philosophy section? Its a good question, but it involves views on law, politics, idealisms, utopianism, psychology, history etc. The topic is related to heaven, but I wanted to stick with the physical side of the legend, and I know I have stepped over that line too. I was hoping to bring this thread to a summerised closure, seeing that there is not too much info on heaven floating around - pardon the pun.
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We can get something cooking on a heavenly body here on earth coming into existence. What about outstanding members of society come together and start a commune of our own? No rapist, thief's, etc. It wouldn't be so difficult. The only challenge is to separate the rapist who loved it, and rapist who is now suicidal because of what he's done. No one left behind!
 
In regards to the rivers, North American native myths talk about a better hunting ground with streams teeming with fish etc.
This idea repeats itself almost word for word, in other legends, but only generally, as with other ideas like vast plains and mountains to roam.

In the past, I missed out on information because I did not make the link with myths of the antideluvian world and legends of heaven.
In some legends the old world was one island or continent, like Atlantis I suppose, and it was a mountain higher than Everest.
Legends from Nepal and India talked about a higher mountain over Everest or other nearby heights.

The original land may have been called Eden, which had 4 rivers that watered the entire island or world.
Very rarely is the legend of heaven told without including water as an integral part. As the saying goes, "Where there's water - there's life," a necessary resource, one would not want to worry about.
The abundance of life and in particular fish is quite common, and not just in the rivers.

The only details I could pick up on the rivers was, that they exposed the type of ground beneath, they divide instead of converge, and they increase in volume towards the base of the island. Heaven is set up in the same way, with the 4 rivers to each side of the world.

A couple of references indicate that the rivers become wide enough for the other side to be out of sight, like the mouth of the Amazon river.

With 6000 miles of wall facing the hosting planet, there are probably a thousand various landscapes that deal with water. A couple of specific ones are under the wall, besides the gates and in underground streams. What about over the wall?
 
Yazata said:
How have you been doing that? Have you discovered some physical or extrasensory way to actually observe heaven? Or are you talking about studying different cultures' mythical accounts of their various heavens?

"Transcends all societies" how? Are you suggesting that all societies' myths about heavens are alike in some way that you believe is important?

Or maybe a higher mode of non-physical consciousness, or something.

Failing to address the many philosophical issues that this issue raises begs way too many questions.
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These questions and comments are especially applicable, if heaven has no consequence or relation to earth, or if it was just a myth.

However if heaven did exist, then the events on earth must be tied in with its history and intents, and that would have many implications.
So in bringing this thread to a close, I will give a brief overview of heavens history, but only as commonly shared by both tribal lore and religions abroad.
There are some religions which have great detail on heaven, but as the subject comes under comparative religion, it should be just that.

If you are doing your own research, you may find some of these commonalities useful.

If you are studying myths, remember that they are generally communicated through symbols, which can be unlocked by contexts and derivatives.
Most symbolic stories seem bizarre, if you take them literally. For eg, "the eight ancestors were inside a fish during a great flood and survived."
A fish survives water, like those who survived the flood in an ark, the eight ancestors were Noah, his three sons and respective wives.
Another way to unlock symbols is to draw parallels of the same event, between the accounts of different tribes or nations.

On history of heaven later.
 
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