Many of the pieces I came across, were no better than turds, and that depended a lot on the burial practices of a society, its survival skills and whatever empire dominated. The bits on the legend in Judaism between 400 BC and 70 AD were often exaggerated and bizarre. But before that period there was a lot of info in the Torah or remnants of it. In 70 AD Jerusalem was destroyed with most of its antiquities.
Info on heaven
- Thread starter Gerhard Kemmerer
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Many of the pieces I came across, were no better than turds, and that depended a lot on the burial practices of a society, its survival skills and whatever empire dominated. The bits on the legend in Judaism between 400 BC and 70 AD were often exaggerated and bizarre. But before that period there was a lot of info in the Torah or remnants of it. In 70 AD Jerusalem was destroyed with most of its antiquities.
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keith1
Guest
Psst, I think Spidey was serious. Did you get the icon I made for you?:shh:
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keith1
Guest
Cool. Since I was born twice (an attempt to delay my birth in order to reach the hospital from a distance), certain drugs allowed me to retrace my steps, so to speak. If you consider a pre-life location to mimic a post-life condition, then you might add my turd to your collection.
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keith1
Guest
The basic premise of Feng Shui is to locate a precise ideal location for the king's palace, summer palace, traveling residences. An important factor is to have fresh air flowing from the mountains to the ocean. How and where people enter the palace.
Thanks for that, I will show a plan to some Feng Shui masters and see what they say.
As far as the legend goes, the main palace is at the pinnacle, surrounded by a wall 3.4 meters high and wide, four entries, one to each cardinal point, with a perimeter of 6+ km. The perimeter of the bulk of heaven is just under 10,000 kms, with 12 entries. The smallest version of that is from a Mayan myth, roughly 5 km wide. Less than 5 percent of legends give any definite measurements. Jewish culture gave the most measurements, but while reading at the time they were too varied for me to make any sense.
I will, I also like free rent, as it was before we were born.
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The book "The Quest for Paradise" by Ashton and Whyte is an interesting collection of heaven legends. What I found is that most people who carried these legends, seemed to only remember or tell about things that are found in this world, only bigger, better and in more abundance. Things like crystals, precious metals, food, gardens etc.
Personally I did not find those descriptions satisfactory, simply because they only reflect temporary needs and wishes, and say nothing about heaven as a place, its location, dimensions or history.
The earliest civilizations had a more literal interpretation about heaven. The Mesopotanians called the great pyramids in Giza the gate or path to heaven. Some observations show those pyramids in the arrangement of the constellation of Orion. Some Bedouins who have had little influence of the western world, still say that Nimrod in the third generation post flood, built the pyramids to get to paradise. But that is another story.
Personally I did not find those descriptions satisfactory, simply because they only reflect temporary needs and wishes, and say nothing about heaven as a place, its location, dimensions or history.
The earliest civilizations had a more literal interpretation about heaven. The Mesopotanians called the great pyramids in Giza the gate or path to heaven. Some observations show those pyramids in the arrangement of the constellation of Orion. Some Bedouins who have had little influence of the western world, still say that Nimrod in the third generation post flood, built the pyramids to get to paradise. But that is another story.
Yazata
Valued Senior Member
How have you been doing that? Have you discovered some physical or extrasensory way to actually observe heaven? Or are you talking about studying different cultures' mythical accounts of their various heavens?
"Transcends all societies" how? Are you suggesting that all societies' myths about heavens are alike in some way that you believe is important?
Or maybe a higher mode of non-physical consciousness, or something.
Failing to address the many philosophical issues that this issue raises begs way too many questions.
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Yazata
Valued Senior Member
If you are going to be arguing (falsely in my opinion) that all cultures' myths about their various heavens describe the same physical place, then an assertion of heaven's physical reality is where you're ultimately headed with this thread, right?
Is this building up to an ancient-astronauts theory?
Or under the Earth.
The ancients often imagined 'the heavens' as a huge dome over the Earth. The stars were conceived as being tiny moving lights up on the dome. The Moon was a bigger light, and the Sun the King of lights. The gods were often imagined as residing on the other side of the dome somewhere and as being associated with the lights somehow.
It's a serious historical error to assume that the ancients conceived of the universe in the same way that we do today.
I"m not interested in ancient texts on heaven, I'm more interested in first hand accounts of life after death, this gives us a picture of what happens when brain death occurs and also more real info on heaven. I believe it exists however..............
some unusual things to consider still remain, for example
1. One girl died, went to heaven to meet her uncle, he said her father didn't expect her so soon and would be very upset to know she was there......... makes sense...... but........ why wouldn't he know? Is heaven someplace people don't know everything? And why would her father be UPSET over her death? If heaven exists who cares if she died and left earth?
2. One guy died and ended up in hell, after awhile he realized you have no free will in hell that's why it sucks so badly, on Earth you have choices. So....... after awhile more an angel pulls him out of hell through a portal. But why did he end up there in the first place if he was meant for heaven!?
There are more, I see on discovery channel etc. but yea those stand out as very telling.
People in heaven don't KNOW everything.
People in heaven don't always greet their loved ones, it depends on?
There is some sort of life in heaven beyond simply sitting waiting around, but what is it? What was that girls father doing in heaven that he wouldn't know of her death?
Find some more first hand accounts it should be very interesting!
some unusual things to consider still remain, for example
1. One girl died, went to heaven to meet her uncle, he said her father didn't expect her so soon and would be very upset to know she was there......... makes sense...... but........ why wouldn't he know? Is heaven someplace people don't know everything? And why would her father be UPSET over her death? If heaven exists who cares if she died and left earth?
2. One guy died and ended up in hell, after awhile he realized you have no free will in hell that's why it sucks so badly, on Earth you have choices. So....... after awhile more an angel pulls him out of hell through a portal. But why did he end up there in the first place if he was meant for heaven!?
There are more, I see on discovery channel etc. but yea those stand out as very telling.
People in heaven don't KNOW everything.
People in heaven don't always greet their loved ones, it depends on?
There is some sort of life in heaven beyond simply sitting waiting around, but what is it? What was that girls father doing in heaven that he wouldn't know of her death?
Find some more first hand accounts it should be very interesting!
Yazata,
I have only collected info on the myths and legends re heaven, in the same manner that many others have done, with the intention of being able to find consistancies in myths and legends, both in history and location, in either human interpretation or the details of the place. And also to be able to compare findings.
There are two distinct philosophies about heaven, which are a whole subject on themselves.
The two main philosophies are that heaven is accessed through death, and you live in an abstract form such as a ghost in a ghostland, or just in some sort of consciousness. The entertainment industries generally push the "ghost after death" view.
The other not so popular view is that heaven is a physical place where you have to be alive or resurrected to be there.
As far as comparing our views with those of the past, people have not changed much, we have always had a broad range of ideas, both then and now. But there have been periods, as posted by Aqueous Id, where empires would nurture one or another idea, that would have been as wide spread as the culture. Our modern ideas of heaven, particularly in the US have been formed by the miriads of religions, and there is tremendous variety. But you will find that they fall into either catergory as above.
I have only collected info on the myths and legends re heaven, in the same manner that many others have done, with the intention of being able to find consistancies in myths and legends, both in history and location, in either human interpretation or the details of the place. And also to be able to compare findings.
There are two distinct philosophies about heaven, which are a whole subject on themselves.
The two main philosophies are that heaven is accessed through death, and you live in an abstract form such as a ghost in a ghostland, or just in some sort of consciousness. The entertainment industries generally push the "ghost after death" view.
The other not so popular view is that heaven is a physical place where you have to be alive or resurrected to be there.
As far as comparing our views with those of the past, people have not changed much, we have always had a broad range of ideas, both then and now. But there have been periods, as posted by Aqueous Id, where empires would nurture one or another idea, that would have been as wide spread as the culture. Our modern ideas of heaven, particularly in the US have been formed by the miriads of religions, and there is tremendous variety. But you will find that they fall into either catergory as above.
DarksidZz,
I am interested in your research and your conclusions about near death or post death experiences, and if you find any details about heaven ie, measurements, descriptions, etc, we can compare them with contents found in legends. In regards to first hand accounts, some legends claim to be transcripts of stories told by people who have seen it in vision or trance, or claim to have been there. Most of those stories are found in religious writings. The Christian Bible contains over a thousand texts on the subject, from which many books have been written. The Koran has many references, from which come many Islamic writings, etc. Judaistic writings are prolific with such accounts, and their culture as a whole is closely related to land use or farming, so their accounts are more centred on the restoration of earth back to a future paradise.
I am interested in your research and your conclusions about near death or post death experiences, and if you find any details about heaven ie, measurements, descriptions, etc, we can compare them with contents found in legends. In regards to first hand accounts, some legends claim to be transcripts of stories told by people who have seen it in vision or trance, or claim to have been there. Most of those stories are found in religious writings. The Christian Bible contains over a thousand texts on the subject, from which many books have been written. The Koran has many references, from which come many Islamic writings, etc. Judaistic writings are prolific with such accounts, and their culture as a whole is closely related to land use or farming, so their accounts are more centred on the restoration of earth back to a future paradise.
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Hey GK, interesting topic, read all the posts. Don't got any info for you, don't know anything about the physical heaven, though I do believe talking to jahovah's witnesses is a good place to get some answers. They believe in a physical heaven. So long as you show up on their door step, and not the other way around, they'd probably be happy to answer questions. don't tell them your name, and don't tell them where you live, or else you'll invite a lot more than you've bargined for. OH, and have a time line, like 15 minutes in and out and that's it.
From the tid bits I've heard, I was under the impression that heaven was actually a real place at one time.
Oh, just something that caught my attention, the dove and flood myths. You know, their was a time when man was settling the far reaches of the earth, at that time they would have had to traverse oceans and I know that they did use birds as a means to discover new lands. Jared Diamond "Guns, Germs and Steel"
From the tid bits I've heard, I was under the impression that heaven was actually a real place at one time.
Oh, just something that caught my attention, the dove and flood myths. You know, their was a time when man was settling the far reaches of the earth, at that time they would have had to traverse oceans and I know that they did use birds as a means to discover new lands. Jared Diamond "Guns, Germs and Steel"
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keith1
Guest
One likes the parts most that are manageable in size and carry the indeterminable distance...
nine months in the womb = three years under the mast = an eternity.
under the mast, when and how? interesting.
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keith1
Guest
Name of an old seafaring adventure book. It was interesting.
It had little to add to my point, but I always liked it's sound. A duration of significant time spent to "become a professional", complete the task...finish the job.
Read full quote previous above.
Yes JW's is one religion that takes the physical view, mainly from a restoration of earth point.
The legends of heaven in tribal myths, do not always indicate a permanent or a future place, but often referred to as a paradise lost. Sometimes that story is entwinned with local catastrophies, even rather than the flood and the loss of the old world, so in many cases I did not take their stories on board as specifically relating to the topic. And Jared Diamond - very revealing.
I guessed under the mast was in the pram for 3 years?
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keith1
Guest
Well, if your going to ask followup focus questions, the book is "Two Years Before the Mast" Author: Dana Published: 1840.
Spoiler: "Around the Horn" to California depiction is very realistically documented. The crew gets scurvy.