If God has created the Universe and everything in it, then ...

greenberg said:
If God has created the Universe and everything in it, this means that God has also created every choice that a person makes, every action a person performs.

If God has created the Universe and everything in it, this means that everything that happens is up to God.
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In one sense, god created two different universes - one for those who want to exist in awareness of him and one for those who don't - and that is basically what our free will boils down to.
 
davewhite04 said:
Scientists haven't neglected anything. They discovered DNA and they are using their knowledge of genetics to help mankind.

I didn't say the big bang came from nowhere. It is commonly agreed that it came from a singularity.

Lets assume the DNA was created over millions of years.

How was it coded?
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You have not answered my question. You said that asa a result of study and observation you had concluded that an intelligent being was required to explain how things came into existence. What did you study and what did you observe ?


I imagine DNA was encoded progressively from the simple to the complex but I do not know. If you do, I should be interested to hear your explanation.
 
lightgigantic said:
In one sense, god created two different universes - one for those who want to exist in awareness of him and one for those who don't - and that is basically what our free will boils down to.
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No, he created three universes, one for those who want to exist in awareness of him and one for those who don't, and one for agnostics.
 
Myles said:
Omniscience means all-knowing, which includes past, present and future, as most Christians will tell you. The alternative is to limit " Almight God's " power.
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omnipotency doesn't include the power to do illogical things like square circles.... god can't know what we do with our free will because then it wouldn't be free.

god can't know what has not happened yet, because if he knew, then he could "change the future", so the prediction would be incorrect.

and it doesn't matter if he also knows that he will change the future, because then he can choose NOT to change it and then that prediction would be wrong too
 
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Yorda said:
omnipotency doesn't include the power to do illogical things like square circles.... god can't know what we do with our free will because then it wouldn't be free.

god can't know what has not happened yet, because if he knew, then he could "change the future", so the prediction would be incorrect.

and it doesn't matter if he also knows that he will change the future, because then he can choose NOT to change it and then that prediction would be wrong too
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Your argument is circular. You assume god exists and then tell us what it is and is not possible for him to do.

I do not believe in god. Why should I ?
 
davewhite04 said:
Many scientists will say we got here by chance, this planets placement in the solar system(and universe) is perfect for life by chance, we were lucky. But we aren't remarkable, and some scientists will add, there is perhaps multiple universes being created now, which makes us even less remarkable.
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Incorrect, evolution is not chance, it is the opposite of chance.

The solar system wasn't arranged so that life could develop, life develops where it is possible for it to develop. Any life form sufficiently advanced to be aware of it's circumstances will [sarcasm] miraculously [/sarcasm] find those circumstances suitable for life.

A puddle of water in a ditch will also miraculously find that the ditch fits itself perfectly!
 
davewhite04 said:
Lets assume the DNA was created over millions of years.

How was it coded?
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You really have not studied evolution, have you? Once in a while, DNA copies itself incorrectly, creating variations. Some variations survive better than others, leading to a gradual improvement of the genome relative to it's environment.
 
Myles said:
You have not answered my question. You said that asa a result of study and observation you had concluded that an intelligent being was required to explain how things came into existence. What did you study and what did you observe ?


I imagine DNA was encoded progressively from the simple to the complex but I do not know. If you do, I should be interested to hear your explanation.
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I have mainly looked at human origins and theology. Evolution is something that I'm also very interested in. DNA is the key to the whole evolution argument in my opinion. The thing is if you look into the study of DNA with a certain worldview then you will fit the data into that worldview, which means if you believe in God then you will see it as written instructions, a blueprint for an organism, if you look at it from a purely naturalistic point of view you might conclude that it proves there is no need for a creator God now, so the argument just goes around in circles.

If you're interested in origins then I recommened looking into DNA. If your interested in human origins specifically then I recommend these two books to start with:

Bones of contention by Lewin
Bones of contention by Lubenow

They give a view from both sides of the argument, one is a creationist the other is not(Lewin). I actually found Lewin's book to be better.
 
spidergoat said:
Incorrect, evolution is not chance, it is the opposite of chance.

The solar system wasn't arranged so that life could develop, life develops where it is possible for it to develop. Any life form sufficiently advanced to be aware of it's circumstances will [sarcasm] miraculously [/sarcasm] find those circumstances suitable for life.

A puddle of water in a ditch will also miraculously find that the ditch fits itself perfectly!
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Evolution doesn't even try to answer the origin question so your response here is confusing.
 
spidergoat said:
You really have not studied evolution, have you? Once in a while, DNA copies itself incorrectly, creating variations. Some variations survive better than others, leading to a gradual improvement of the genome relative to it's environment.
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The word is mutation. None of which have been observed to be beneficial. Some are harmful some are harmless simple as. Also the DNA for a particular animal has only got the instructions that are applicable and compatible with that animal, apes could never grow wings as no new information is created it is either lost or mutated(harmful or harmless, a fruit fly might grow 7wings for example).
 
davewhite04 said:
I have mainly looked at human origins and theology. Evolution is something that I'm also very interested in. DNA is the key to the whole evolution argument in my opinion. The thing is if you look into the study of DNA with a certain worldview then you will fit the data into that worldview, which means if you believe in God then you will see it as written instructions, a blueprint for an organism, if you look at it from a purely naturalistic point of view you might conclude that it proves there is no need for a creator God now, so the argument just goes around in circles.

If you're interested in origins then I recommened looking into DNA. If your interested in human origins specifically then I recommend these two books to start with:

Bones of contention by Lewin
Bones of contention by Lubenow



They give a view from both sides of the argument, one is a creationist the other is not(Lewin). I actually found Lewin's book to be better.
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So how do YOU think DNA was sequenced ? What has theology to say on the subject ?
 
Myles said:
So how do YOU think DNA was sequenced ? What has theology to say on the subject ?
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I think the gene pool was created with a specific plan. When I look at DNA I see intelligence. I mentioned theology because we are in the religion forum.

Why not look into the subject and see what you conclude, then we can talk again about it.
 
davewhite04 said:
I think the gene pool was created with a specific plan. When I look at DNA I see intelligence. I mentioned theology because we are in the religion forum.

Why not look into the subject and see what you conclude, then we can talk again about it.
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I have already done so. My specific question is whether you have any evidence to suport intelligence or whether you believe it because it seems right.
 
Myles said:
I have already done so. My specific question is whether you have any evidence to suport intelligence or whether you believe it because it seems right.
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Hmmm I thought you said you hadn't a clue about DNA?

I don't mind continuing but I have little time for blatant liars.
 
davewhite04 said:
Hmmm I thought you said you hadn't a clue about DNA?

I don't mind continuing but I have little time for blatant liars.
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Blatant liars? You misunderstood my response. You . I believe. were referring to abiogenisis and asked how DNA was sequenced. As this was part of the God / intelligece thing, I assumed you were asking me how the process started because you seem to believe it requires an intelligent agent wheras I am content to say I do not know.

So the question is , do you believe the process requires of an intelligent creator/ designer or do you share my view that the question has yet to be answered
 
davewhite04 said:
I think the gene pool was created with a specific plan. When I look at DNA I see intelligence. I mentioned theology because we are in the religion forum.

Why not look into the subject and see what you conclude, then we can talk again about it.
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I se where you are coming from now. A plan needs a planner and that shows you that God must exist. Is that your point ?
 
greenberg said:
If God has created the Universe and everything in it, this means that God has also created every choice that a person makes, every action a person performs.

If God has created the Universe and everything in it, this means that everything that happens is up to God.
Click to expand...
If God is transcendant and controlling. If God is immanent or also immanent and we are a part of God, then perhaps it is not like that.
 
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