I respect what Hitler accomplished

[oiram]

If you look into a mirror and dislike what you see, is that the fault of the mirror?:

Depends on what kind of mirror it is, I tend not to like I how look in those mirror they use in the fun house. (being sarcastic here)

The quoted sentences in my post are not my opinion. They are your opinion, and your logic, reflected back onto you.:

They might be but you were doing with a personal attack behind it, and not debate or at least that’s how it came off to me.


In regards to my sibling being murdered I forgave that person who did it and put that behind me, not to mention the person who murdered my sibling didn’t kill my sibling to make the world a better place through a master plan and rid the world of less desirable people but rather out of being high on drugs and having bad judgment and he truly felt sorry for his actions afterwards, nevertheless my sibling is still dead and live goes on.


Hitler’s motive was driven by hate (which I do not support hate) but he still had a good idea and was bold enough to implement it, and for that I respect him. If Obama decided that only Blacks should be the race in the world and he had some statistical evidence that supported that and there had to be an elimination of 500 million people due to population problems I wouldn’t be opposed to have all other races neutered to prevent reproduction until they all died off, or even put down if it helped the greater good of mankind. My contribution to this cause would be my life, and I could not think of a greater sacrifice.

Nonsense. By saying that the Nazi's genocide wasn't bad you are personally attacking all Gypsies, Poles, Jews, Slavs, catholics, communists, homosexuals, disabled people, and others on sciforums:

I wasn’t attacking those individual groups personally because I said what Hitler did in regards to genocide wasn’t bad. I was simply saying how can genocide be bad if it is for the greater good of the world and mankind? The problem is who is to decide this and with what motives.

 

[pjdude1219]

Let's see, his actions resulted in half of Germany being occupied by the Russians for 50 years, he ruined the reputation of the Wehrmacht, and his actions led to the deaths of over 50 million people. I'd say he was one of the biggest losers on the planet. What did he ever do that was admirable?

he helped make the standards that got the beetle the top notch car it is.

 

[Oli]

Really ?, Who did ?

who did?

If you mean "who did invent the jet engine" that's still to be settled AFAIK, because the exact definition has not been agreed upon.
But what is certain is that von Ohain's/ Heinkel's test-bench model required a separate power source to keep the turbine going - if that classes as a jet engine then the inventor would be the Romanian Henri Coanda (who built and flew one in 1910).
Whittle had the first self-contained power unit using a gas turbine, but that did not include such things as correctly-configured intake/ exhaust (which was one of the sticking points in the final decision in the court case).

 

[oiram]

Well I see your point regarding the jet engines, but Hitler was the first to put a jet engine in a military fighter jet and build multiple units and get them in the air. They just happened to be a day late and a dollar short in their success.

 

[Xylene]

When you have millions to kill, putting them in labor camps isn’t a good idea because then you millions to guard, feed, and care for. It’s easier and more efficient to simply gas them and bury them like Hitler did.

Maybe if he had used the bodies and butchered them he could have used the meat to feed wild animals in the zoo or guard dogs, and at least gotten some benefit out of the dead people but then again too much trouble, just bury them in mass graves and be done with it.

Well, they did use the human ash from the crematoria to fertilize gardens all over Germany during the war years--no kidding... The real question should be, how could he have done things better, so that Germany won?

A) The obvious answer, don't attack Russia.
B) The next most obvious answer, don't annihilate a large and potentially useful section of your population. In WW1, German Jews fought against the Allies in the trenches, alongside other Germans, after all. Imagine if A.H. hadn't been such a total f'wit about the Jews, and had them on his side--(i.e. if WW2 had just been a straight-out political contest between non-Communist western Europe and the Communists of the Soviet Union) instead of a racist war of German against Slav and everyone else who wasn't German...
C) A German supreme leader other than Hitler, someone who wasn't a raving psychotic mental, and who had enough sense to see that the scenario set out above (race-war) was a waste of time and effort, and they should concentrate on the purely political business of bringing down the USSR and freeing Europe of the menace of Communism as their most important prior objective. Plenty of time for more nasty games after the first job's done...

 

[Oli]

but Hitler was the first to put a jet engine in a military fighter jet and build multiple units and get them in the air. They just happened to be a day late and a dollar short in their success.

Again, no.
The Heinkel 280 (designed just as the war started) was cancelled by the German government as unnecessary.
And then when the later Me 262 was finally accepted for service Hitler insisted on it being used as a bomber rather than fighter.
And that was, from an engineering point of view, a piece of crap - ~10 hour engine life, badly designed intakes etc.

Referencing the He 280:

This was the case across all jet engine development in Germany; government funding was lacking at the critical stage that of initial development. The entire jet program was under-funded, with the effect that unreliable engines were commonplace.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinkel_He_280

 

[scorpius]

i wonder what we would all be saying if he had won. I dont like the man but all of you seem to be basing your assesments on the fact he lost, if he hadnt been so stupid as to atack russia he might well have beaten the allies

attacking Russia wasnt stupid,after all thats where the biggest reserves of oil are!
attacking it at the wrong time of the year was,
as smart as Hitler was he was too dum not to learn from the history when Napoleon army soldiers froze to death b/c they werent prepared for the harsh Russian winter.

 

[PieAreSquared]

Just think if Ed Teller hadn't bailed in 33

 

[Norsefire]

In that case I fight to my dying breath. And maybe even in that I would fail. Perhaps I would end up executed by tyrants. But I would certainly not do the job for them. And I certainly would not instruct the scattered remnants of my resistance to kill themselves.

Executed by tyrants? Oh no, you must remember, if you lose then you are the terrorist and they are the saviors. Thus, you will simply be executed as a criminal, and as part of "justice"

In this way Hitler is no more fearful of justice than any other leader. Justice is what the dominant decide it to be.

That we have not yet realized that justice is no reason to surrender to tyranny and hatred.

Perhaps that is a fundamental difference between how you and I view the world.

There is no real justice. It's all perception

 

[Repo Man]

Just think if Ed Teller hadn't bailed in 33

Hitler's insane antisemitism caused a brain drain from Germany as many very intelligent and well educated Jews and other intelligentsia fled the madness. They came here, and worked for the U.S.

 

[PieAreSquared]

Exactly Repo.. could you imagine what could of happen had he not had the insane antisemitism
sad as it was for those tortured or murdered but it did change the balance of things
in a indirect way those lost life's save many more

 

[Carcano]

The 'great' people of political history were mostly just mass murderers.

George Bush slaughtered more innocent human beings than every serial killer you can name.

 

[Norsefire]

However GB was not intelligent, cunning, ambitious, or strong willed and fears foolish meaningless things

 

[codanblad]

As long as you live in a free country, that is not Germany, you can think anything you like about Hitler.

He was tragically...a skilled orator, with radical opinions in a radical time for Germany. He was never going to be a success, his plans were always doomed.

how so? if he'd kept america out of the war, and made fewer military mistakes, might he have won the war?

 

[Bells]

No I am not disappointed, I actually have family members who are Jewish but I also understand sacrifices for the greater good of humanity. If eliminating an entire class of people was for the greater good then so be it even if I was included in that class of people. I have family members who served in WWII on both side and they fought and were willing to give their lives for the greater good of their countries so why shouldn’t we as a whole be willing to give our lives for the greater good of humanity? Most people talk about what they would do but when it comes down to dying for the greater good they change their mind faster than a Jew picking up a penny on the street.

:bugeye:

Greater good? Greater good of whom? Hitler? Germany and those mighty Aryans? The world? Your own?

Whose greater good did it serve to commit a genocide? Tell me, if one day you God forbid, breed, and you are then told by your country's leader that it would serve "the greater good" to torture and kill your child, you'd hand that child over without protest and blindly follow because you are told it is for "the greater good"? Seriously, what kind of a weak sheep are you that you would blindly allow yourself and your family to be killed because you are told that it is "for the greater good"?

You view the mass slaughter of everyone who did not fit into an individual's retarded notion of 'purity' as being a 'sacrifice for the greater good'. That's fine, you are free to your opinion. It still does not take away the simple fact that Hitler was a tyrant and a mass murderer who was not only selfish, but also a coward. Not to mention insane to boot. While you may respect his achievements, I need to ask, how does one respect and admire someone who has committed genocide on a scale not seen since, and all because he wanted racial purity? More to the point, why do you respect him for having committed gross crimes against humanity? Sure, he could give a great speech and terrify the populace into complying with his wishes. It does not make him an admirable figure. Just makes him a wart on the arse of humanity.

 

[chris4355]

Is it wrong for someone to claim they respected Hitler for all he accomplished he made both good and bad?

Here is what I mean, Hitler was nobody and was even in jail where he wrote a bestselling book. He was released and in a very short time rose to become one of the most powerful men in the world and became a defining man in all of history. He created so many good things and help advance so much, but along with those good things he was committing genocide, which isn’t a bad thing if you’re not one of the people in line at the gas chambers.

So is it wrong to recognize him for the good things that were accomplished under his leadership?

Respect is not the right word.

Are you going to respect Osama Bin Laden for taking out WTC? After all, it was cleverly done and well planned out.

There comes a point where you have to realize, though Hitler may have accomplished a lot, more than all of us here, what he accomplished does not deserve respect.

He may have a lot of qualities that respectful people have~~ but the way he used them and the outcome of his actions are not the ones of respectful people.

Keep in mind, this is the guy who is responsible for 60 million deaths... Hate and disrespect are much better ways of describing him.

 

[codanblad]

Greater good? Greater good of whom?

You view the mass slaughter of everyone who did not fit into an individual's retarded notion of 'purity' as being a 'sacrifice for the greater good'.

if you're improving the gene pool, physically its for the greater good of everyone, and the dead don't lament their plight. his notion of purity was pretty retarded, i think jews were just an attractive target.

Sure, he could give a great speech and terrify the populace into complying with his wishes. It does not make him an admirable figure.

Respect is not the right word.

Keep in mind, this is the guy who is responsible for 60 million deaths... Hate and disrespect are much better ways of describing him.

i agree respect and admiration don't apply, but perhaps awe-inspiring does. he took control of an entire country, and set the world at war. i can't even get my little brother to do the kitchen. He deserves to be reviled, but what he accomplished was tremendous, i think a person might respect him for his abilities. its true his flaws were greater than his achievements.

 

[Tiassa]

The important thing

Executed by tyrants? Oh no, you must remember, if you lose then you are the terrorist and they are the saviors. Thus, you will simply be executed as a criminal, and as part of "justice"

Well, sure. But, what, am I going to call them saviors?

In this way Hitler is no more fearful of justice than any other leader. Justice is what the dominant decide it to be.

Yeah, actually he is. He was a fucking coward. At least Saddam Hussein had the balls to go underground and carry on the fight. And when he was hauled into a kangaroo court, he stayed stroppy and defiant to the end.

There is no real justice. It's all perception

To reiterate:

Every victor pretends their justice is the real justice. There is an abstract concept that transcends the justice that laid John Brown to rest. Or Saddam Hussein. Or Jeanne d'Arc. Or Giles Corey. Or Che Guevara. Or Ted Bundy. Or ... or ... or ....

That we have not yet realized that justice is no reason to surrender to tyranny and hatred.​

The subjective justice of any society, sect, class, or other group appeals to an abstract concept. That abstraction is already justified in itself; it is what we strive toward. That we have not reached the end of that journey is no reason to give up.

So maybe it's easier to just throw our hands up and say, "There is no justice." Perhaps it brings some ephemeral satisfaction to condemn our species to madness at best. But it is a surrender. It is a self-fulfillng prophecy: If we abandon the search for justice, we will never find it.

But at least you will have a moment's comfort on your deathbed, murmuring to yourself, "I was right. I was right. I was right."

Because, hey, that's the most important thing, right?

 

[nietzschefan]

how so? if he'd kept america out of the war, and made fewer military mistakes, might he have won the war?

Yes.

 

[Xylene]

One thing Hitler did in Germany after 1933 was to build the autobahn system, so I'm told; in doing so, he actually speeded the end of the war, IMO. The invading Americans, British and Russians used the excellent autobahn system to move about the German countryside far more quickly than they would otherwise have done.