I respect what Hitler accomplished

But back to Hitler, how did he become the personification of all evil by doing exactly what everyone in his position has been doing for millenia?

Is it because he was more efficient

Because:

A) It was the 20th Century, in Europe and the last time someone did that in Europe was probably the Romans against the Celts. Though there was small purges of people here an there (Jews, Vlad Dracula impaling Muslims etc.). Pretty much happened pre-Enlightenment.

B) Selected Jews mostly and Jews NEVER forget and rarely forgive.
 
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So is it wrong to recognize him for the good things that were accomplished under his leadership?
I'm pretty sure that by recognizing any "good" things that Hitler might have accomplished, you are committing rape.
 
I'm pretty sure that by recognizing any "good" things that Hitler might have accomplished, you are committing rape.

Under Hitler’s rein there were many very good things that occurred and technologies we still have to credit his administration with. What about the bestselling vehicle of all time in the world? “The peoples Car” yes that little VW Bug that out sold any other model and it was a car for the people. What about the first jet airplane engine? Genetics? And the list goes on.
Hitler might have committed atrocities but I think he is no different than many other men in this world including Bush. Hitler was just more successful with his extermination techniques than others have been so he is considered evil. Try telling this to the mothers of the hundreds of Iraq children that have been innocently killed and labeled “collateral damage”, do you think they hold Hitler as more evil than Bush?
 
The Germans were advanced engineers, not Hitler. Compared to him, our actions in Iraq would be considered a humanitarian mission.
 
The general public equate evil with discomfort and violence, not realizing that sometimes we have to experience these things in order to improve, in order to succeed. Hitler did horrific things, but he did them for the "greater good", and the man had no fear and submitted to no authority. That is why he has my respect.
 
I don't think the Bush argument works at this level

Oiram said:

Hitler might have committed atrocities but I think he is no different than many other men in this world including Bush. Hitler was just more successful with his extermination techniques than others have been so he is considered evil.

I'm not sure this works. Bush was an incompetent boob. His redemption in history will be the widespread perception that he is stupid.

Not so with Hitler. Even accusations of psychopathy cannot redeem the man, as it's hard to find redemption in an indictment. Interestingly, though, the late Hervey M. Cleckley, a pioneering American psychiatrist, noted,

Over a period of many decades psychiatrists, and sometimes other writers, have made attempts to classify prominent historical figures-rulers, military leaders, famous artists and writers-as cases of psychiatric disorder or as people showing some of the manifestations associated with various psychiatric disorders. Many professional and lay observers in recent years have commented on the sadistic and paranoid conduct and attitudes reported in Adolf Hitler and in some of the other wartime leaders in Nazi Germany. Walter Langer, the author of a fairly recent psychiatric study, arrives at the conclusion that Hitler was "probably a neurotic psychopath bordering on schizophrenia," that "he was not insane but was emotionally sick and lacked normal inhibitions against antisocial behavior." A reviewer of this study in Time feels that Hitler is presented as "a desperately unhappy man ... beset by fears, doubts, loneliness and guilt [who] spent his whole life in an unsuccessful attempt to compensate for feelings of helplessness and inferiority."

Though the term psychopath is used for Hitler in this quotation it seems to be used in a broader sense than in this volume. Hitler, despite all the unusual, unpleasant, and abnormal features reported to be characteristic of him, could not, in my opinion, be identified with the picture I am trying to present. Many people whose conduct has been permanently recorded in history are described as extremely abnormal in various ways. Good examples familiar to all include Nero and Heliogabalus, Gilles de Rais, the Countess Elizabeth Báthory and, of course, the Marquis de Sade. I cannot find in these characters a truly convincing resemblance that identifies them with the picture that emerges from the actual patients I have studied and regarded as true psychopaths.


(326-7)

To the other, I'm not sure what comfort there is to be had by telling people that greater evils have existed than the one plaguing them. "Ah, chin up, Ahmed ... at least it's not Hitler."

(My kid has no fucking legs! he might say. What do I care about Hitler right now?)

Tell a grieving parent that Ted Bundy was worse than the piece of shit who raped and killed their daughter. It just doesn't work that way.

I don't think W. even qualifies as a "mini-Hitler". Yes, the policies and methods of his administration raised an unsettling spectre that we have yet to banish under the new boss, but the sheer scale of Hitler can only be exceeded by Stalin. No other monster of history and legend can compare. Not Pol Pot, not Columbus, not Milosevic or even Joseph Kony.

What Hitler did wasn't just bumbling. It wasn't just the toll of an ugly war. His political capital depended on the demonization of Jews, and the toll he exacted in blood to maintain his political wealth well crosses into the realm of insanity. He was unique to his time, and nearly any time. Bush is not so unique insofar as the toll of his adventure in Iraq is a benchmark in the degradation of an idyll. The American dream has fallen this far, and while plenty have recognized this descent for some time, what happened under Bush was a manifestation of the quiet evil that so many of our citizens have tried so hard to ignore.

Hitler's evil was a manifestation of his own corruption, and while that can reasonably be said to be to some degree a product of society, there's a difference between losing one's temper and punching a bloke a square and attempting the extermination of an entire class of people.
___________________

Notes:

Cleckley, Hervey M. The Mask of Sanity—An Attempt to Clarify Some Issues About the So-Called Psychopathic Personality. 1941. Fifth ed. Augusta: Emily S. Cleckley, 1988. Cassiopaea.org. Accessed June 19, 2009. http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/sanity_1.PdF
 
Precisely why he ought to be respected, Tiassa. He genuinly was efficient and intelligent, and he was afraid of no meaningless code or "higher power"
 
He was an incompetent General, who failed to listen to the Generals who actually knew what they were doing and that's a big reason why he failed. Barbarossa? Come on- one of the worst military mistakes in history.
 
I don't care that he was militarily incompetent; the point is, he was a manipulative mastermind that achieved his greatest ambitions, and only failed because of his one shortcoming: his stubborness.
 
the man had no fear and submitted to no authority. That is why he has my respect.

Yeah but neither did Albert Fish, Andrei Chikatilo nor GG Allin. Would you also respect them for reaching a personal goal of not submitting to any authority or fear and 'doing what they want'?

I think Hitler would have been more successful if he had moved more slowly instead of trying to reign in the entire world in one day. He improved the morale and economy for the people of Germany, he was a great orator and inspired many but he wasn't creative nor patient enough to bring his vision to fruition, the perfect individual and perfect society would have perhaps been better served by bringing it forth at home first and perfecting it before the eyes of the world then it may have been desirable and spread. Its the expansionist vision that ruined him and his dragged all of Germany into war setting back their cultural achievement. Just think Germany was at the height of its cultural achievements in music, literature, philosophy and he ruined it all. Germany has yet to reclaim that for themselves.
 
As I said he had shortcomings, namely his stubbornness and impatience. However the man is still a man of action, and that's why he has my respect.
 
Well ... justice?

Norsefire said:

He genuinly was efficient and intelligent, and he was afraid of no meaningless code or "higher power"

Well, he was afraid of something. Perhaps justice? There are many who regard justice as a higher power, and plenty who would declare it meaningless.

And yet Hitler feared justice.
 
As I said he had shortcomings, namely his stubbornness and impatience. However the man is still a man of action, and that's why he has my respect.

No read the first question considering why you respect him. All those men were 'men of action' they all lived 'without fear' they all 'shirked authority and lived only by their own authority'. The question is do you respect them for their actions and achievements?

At the end of the day Hitler didn't create anything he didn't leave anything behind he only managed to destroy what was bad AND what was good.
 
Was that before or after your roll toward nihilism?

Norsefire said:

There is no such thing as justice, Tiassa, we've been over this.

And yet Hitler feared it.

Imagine that, someone you admire was afraid of something you believe doesn't exist.

Of course, plenty of people I've admired over the years believe in God, so ... whatever works, right?
 
And yet Hitler feared it.

Imagine that, someone you admire was afraid of something you believe doesn't exist.

Of course, plenty of people I've admired over the years believe in God, so ... whatever works, right?

I don't think he feared justice, I think he was taking his life in his own hands (no pun intended:D).
 
No read the first question considering why you respect him. All those men were 'men of action' they all lived 'without fear' they all 'shirked authority and lived only by their own authority'. The question is do you respect them for their actions and achievements?

At the end of the day Hitler didn't create anything he didn't leave anything behind he only managed to destroy what was bad AND what was good.
I've never heard of any of those people; at any rate, I have respect for any individual that thinks for themselves, and doesn't fear meaningless nonexistent nonsense.

Also Hitler left behind a legacy and a name that will live on.

And yet Hitler feared it.

Imagine that, someone you admire was afraid of something you believe doesn't exist.

Of course, plenty of people I've admired over the years believe in God, so ... whatever works, right?
What makes you think Hitler feared justice?
 
I've never heard of any of those people; at any rate, I have respect for any individual that thinks for themselves, and doesn't fear meaningless nonexistent nonsense.

Also Hitler left behind a legacy and a name that will live on.

No he left behind a name not a legacy. Where is Hitler's legacy? What is it? You can wiki any of those names, they also are 'famous' but what was their legacy? Where and what is it?
 
An entire ideology, an entire place in history, and simply what he did that affected the course of history....that's quite the legacy.
 
An entire ideology, an entire place in history, and simply what he did that affected the course of history....that's quite the legacy.

Ok I can agree with that statement. But please answer my question comparing those three with what you consider worthy of respect. They all lived by the standards you say causes you to respect Hitler I want to know if you extend it towards those men also
 
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