Chosen People = Racist Supremacist Ideology

[Brian Foley]

What you have said is true,

I know .

but the koran says the same shit

Could you show me where in the Koran it claims moslems are a chosen people ? I would be very interested , and besides what stopping yo8u doing such a thraed .

and I don't see you complaining Brian

Complain about what ?

Could it be you have double standards?

I was requested by a Jewish poster to do this thread .

yeah man, it wasn't a criticism. i guess the point is that who cares, racism or not, what you call it doesn't matter because that doesn't alter the fact that its discriminatory and terrible.

What gets me here is those who pounce all over the Koran and even Christians completely change and become defensive and apologetic when the Jewish Torah is examined . the verses I quoted need simple answers yet the critics of my thraed seem determined to make this into a race vs religious group thread .

No, I just addressed them en masse.

Im sorry I missed where on this thread you addressed those quotes en masse , could you go over them again .

Oh? And if the response to their arrival had been less violent, would the association have even had come up? Seriously.

Sorry you are again avoiding the line of debate Here you said very clearly .

Provide what you like; then, illustrate how such messages are meant not as historical reference; then, cite how Jewish people are using such passages to justify their actions.

And I gave this answer :

Ahhhh , for starters isnt the Jewish claim to Israel a Biblical claim ? I mean you can read here how Israeli Jews are doing just that .

Now could I have a straight answer .

All the Abrahamic ones.

OK show me verses from the Koran and the New Testament which corroborate this claim .

Again, if you're arguing that those verses are racist,

Again making things up , I said the quotes were offensive .

Aww, Bwian need nap again? Easy, old timer - I should have specified that the quote therein was merely a supremacist citation with which you happen to fervently agree, and not something you'd be smart enough to write yourself. OK? All better? So sorry.

Christ this guy seriously cant be a University professor , Jesus what a total wanker your students must think of you . I mean you are totally thick no better yet dim witted is a more apt description , once again 8 posts from GeoffP and he still hasnt even touched the subject of the thraed .

 

[The Devil Inside]

I was requested by a Jewish poster to do this thread

there are 3 jewish folks on this forum that i know of. i have spoken intensively with one of them, and im pretty positive it wasnt him..


so in fact, you are spreading lies again..im QUITE positive of that.

get a life, brian fuhrer.

please ban brian foley.

 

[Brian Foley]

Just so the rest of you understand Zephyr who I believe is a South African Jew requested I do this thread .

Australian government 'Flog them' "gas them with the exhaust of your car"

ALL religions believe they are a chosen people.

Christians dont , Buddhists dont in fact Jews are the only religion that does .

Ah Foley, how thou hast fallen. Do some honest research and then try repeating that statement with a straight face. Better yet, start a topic in the religion forum and see how long your assertion stands.

 

[The Devil Inside]

please ban brian foley.

 

[Zephyr]

This was your assertion:

Christians dont , Buddhists dont in fact Jews are the only religion that does .

This is why I think it doesn't hold.

This is why I don't think I need to respond to your quotes; I dislike the strategy whomever its target. At my university there are Christian, Jewish, Muslim and other students who have no difficulty getting along with one another. Selecting verses from the bible or quran in an attempt to discredit an entire religion is sick.

 

[GeoffP]

the romans dominated the land of half of the countries in existence right now and destroyed whole cultures, the jews got off pretty sweet under roman rule. muslims killed and persecuted a lot of christians in their lands despite official tolerance of the sect, and lets also not even mention what most early christians went through at the hands of the romans. the point here is - get over it, everyone else has.

By all means, pick one unpleasantness out of the pile and attack it in order to discredit the rest.

right, genocide has only ever happened to the jews. forget about what stalin did to his own people, the kurds, rwandan genocide... its all inconsequential compared to what the jews went through, i know.

Holy hell, man - proportionally there are, again, how many Jewish people in the world? And how many of them were murdered? What percent would that be?

have you seen any israelis bulldozing palestinian homes? killing kids for being out after curfew? hmmm i wonder why the islamic world doesn't like them. also, please dont act like the christ-killers thing has any credibility among anyone but some extreme christian minority or some neo-nazi retards.

For a long time the Christ-killer "thing" was very, very much in vogue among the masses. Say about 2000 years give or take?

And as for the other accusations, have you wondered why the homes get bulldozed and why the kids always show up to throw rocks? Anything to do with shaheedism, say?

oh, so now being god's chosen people and excluding everyone else in the world that isnt a jew is just "standoffishness". interesting.

As mountain would say: red herring. Being or not being God's "chosen people" has nothing whatever to do with Jewish people being "standoffish". If they are the latter at all, it seems pretty clear to me they learned it from about 2000 years of being treated like shit by the other two so-called "Abrahamic" religions. Or do you think that that lovely dark period, when they could be robbed and tortured and extorted almost at will by the kindness of Christians and muslims around them on all sides, pressing ever inward, should have taught them trust for people outside their community? They're people too, you know, not bloody automatons.

if not with lip service, then with money.

And so support for Israel means inherent support for Zionism? Must I remind you who just won the Israeli elections?

Geoff

 

[GeoffP]

Could you show me where in the Koran it claims moslems are a chosen people ? I would be very interested , and besides what stopping yo8u doing such a thraed .

Off the top of my head, how about "theirs is the abode of hell", or "they abandon light for darkness"? Seriously, not even you could be that stupid on your best day.

What gets me here is those who pounce all over the Koran and even Christians completely change and become defensive and apologetic when the Jewish Torah is examined .

Well, zippy, it's a question of usage. Christians and Jews don't go around killing nonbelievers any more, for starters: a couple of little somethings we call the Reformation and the Renaissance. I think most Christians today - except, perhaps, yourself - have refuted those verses. It's that simple. It's when you start referring constantly to a book and a religion as being "utterly perfect" and the "way for all humans forever" and a mad bandit as being the "al-insan al-kamil, the perfect man" that people like me pounce.

the verses I quoted need simple answers yet the critics of my thraed seem determined to make this into a race vs religious group thread .

Again, no. Are you a troll? You cited racial distinctions in your argument. You. Ergo, you turned it into a racial argument yourself.

Im sorry I missed where on this thread you addressed those quotes en masse , could you go over them again .

Sure. My response to your question was: no. You're welcome.

Now could I have a straight answer .

I gave one. Can you?

OK show me verses from the Koran and the New Testament which corroborate this claim .

They're well enough known that I don't need to bother, thanks. You lose.

Again making things up , I said the quotes were offensive .

Did you go back and edit your post?

Christ this guy seriously cant be a University professor

Honestly, Foley, I can't imagine where I'd begin to care what you think.

Geoff

 

[spidergoat]

please ban brian foley.

Just ignore. Besides, I think it's against the rules to say that. I was banned once for it.

In the strictest sense, Brian, you could say some aspects of Judaism are racist, as far as;1: the prejudice that members of one race are intrinsically superior to members of other races.

However, as far as: 2: discriminatory or abusive behavior towards members of another race, I think the Jews are especially sensitive to this, based on being the victims of racism in the past.

I think I know your concern about this in relation to Israel and the Palestinians, but that prejudice is based more on experience than ideology.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

Yeah it was confusing Im sorry, I had 2 differnet lines going and got a little ahead of myself I will clarify it here .

Spidergoat said Moses wrote some I just enjoined .

The 1st 5 books of the Bible which is known as the Pentateuch authoured by Moses .

I was quoting the Exodus chapter 6 as an example of Gods bloodthirst .

*************
M*W: Recent biblical scholorship would indicate that Moses never existed and the Exodus never happened. Even I, formerly, was a student of Moses' comings and goings, but later learned that Moses was just another name for another hero in history called Sargon, and the Ten Commandments were plagarized from the Code of Hammurabi. Genesis had at least three authors (all Egyptian), and the 'Pentateuch' doesn't really mean the first five books of the bible. Job was the oldest book written as a play and not Genesis as the story of creation. In fact, Noah's Flood was plagarized from the earlier Flood of Gilgemesh. The Flood stories were to have taken place prior to the myths of A&E in the GoE. And for the record, both the old and new testaments are so embedded in Egyptian astrotheology that they are nothing more than ancient astrological calendars referencing animals like rams, lambs, fish; elements like rain, wind, fire and air; numbers like 3 Mary's, 3 Magi, the trinity, 3 days Jonah was in the belly of a whale, 3 days between crucifixion and resurrection (an impossibility, I might add); 7 days in a week, 7th son(sun) of the 7th son(sun), 12 days of Christmas, 12 apostles, 12 months in a year, Mary was age 12 when she was impregnated, 12 tribes, and Jesus was age 12 when he was found at the temple; 30 days in a month, Jesus was 30 years when his ministry began, there are 30 degrees in every astrological sign; 40 days it rained, 40 days and nights Jesus prayed in the desert, Moses spent 40 years in the desert, and Jesus ascended on the 40th day; 144 (12x12) means wholly, entirely, and the alpha and the omega -- the entire orbit around the zodiac.

Moses has been ruled scholarly out as having written about his own death. The whole aura of the 'Pentateuch' reeks of Egyptian culture. The ancient Hebrews (Abiru) were Egyptian, and there is a very fine line between Egyptians and Jews (but don't tell them I said that!). The only true difference between Jews and Arabs is their holy books and land holdings. Genetically, they're the same. In fact, we all may be Egyptian offshoots.

All I'm saying is don't credit some guy named 'Moses' (there were quite a few of them in the 18 Dynasty alone, and 'Moses' isn't a name, it's a pharaonic title, and there were multitudes of Moseses in Memphis.

The actual chronology of the books of the bible were NOT, repeat NOT written in the order they appear in the bible. Just like the gospels, the earliest one written was Mark (Mars) circa 70 AD not Matthew (Ma'at or Mithras). Just for the record, Luke (Lucifer) and John (Oannes), Thomas (Tammuz), Peter (Ju-Peter), Paul (Apollo), for starters.

I have to run now, or I could go on forever, but I do look forward to your response.

 

[Brian Foley]

This was your assertion:

Which was to JamesR which he asked of me , and you enjoined and requested I do this thread , so stop attempting to make out I deliberately authored an extremist thread .
Your first link about the Chosen People points out only 2 minority Christian Groups The Mormons and Seventh Day Adventists see themselves as a chosen people , these 2 groups hardly represent Christianity and are on the fringe . Nowhere does your link provide quotes concerning the Koran or the Christian nor the Hindu beliefs only to say that there are segments of opinions that consider themselves chosen , but not based on scriptural evidence . More importantly this link has the included the Nazi master race concept alongside the Jewish chosen people concept , so do you think this chosen people concept has supremacist overtones ?

This is why I don't think I need to respond to your quotes; I dislike the strategy whomever its target. At my university there are Christian, Jewish, Muslim and other students who have no difficulty getting along with one another. Selecting verses from the bible or quran in an attempt to discredit an entire religion is sick.

As for this 2nd link , I can only accept that as other than a cop out by you yourself , simply to make out I am simply singling out Jews and selectively taking quotes out of context from the bible to arrive at a skewered viewpoint that reinforces a point of view . You asked me to do this thread concerning this subject and I have complied , I even PMed you to come here and enjoin this debate . I appreciate your points , but you are really avoiding answering the quotes and whether they are offensive or not , and I would like it very much if you could address these quotes and provide an answer as to whether these quotes are indeed offensive and provoke the kind of ideological excess’s common to Zionism against other human beings , that is what is sick .

Off the top of my head, how about "theirs is the abode of hell", or "they abandon light for darkness"? Seriously, not even you could be that stupid on your best day.

Look , it is once again obvious you are simply going to proceed with this same type of divertive debate you display on every other thread you enjoin . You deliberately avoid directly answering any questions and bring in superfluous points to draw away from any conclusive end related to this thread . You have provided 12 answers on this thread none and I mean none have addressed any point this thread . Until you do I wont waste any more time answering any of your posts on this particular thread .

Just ignore. Besides, I think it's against the rules to say that. I was banned once for it.

The wonderful world of fantasy did thankfully put me on his ignore list .

Todays lesson on working together
Brian Foley
This message is hidden because Brian Foley is on your ignore list.

Unfortunately he has decided to go back to stalking me ………yay

In the strictest sense, Brian, you could say some aspects of Judaism are racist, as far as;1: the prejudice that members of one race are intrinsically superior to members of other races.

Racist or better supremacist .

However, as far as: 2: discriminatory or abusive behavior towards members of another race, I think the Jews are especially sensitive to this, based on being the victims of racism in the past.

I said that over the Holocaust and the Jewish community wanting to delete ceratin passages from Matthew concerning Christs crucifixion and the blood curse being understandable .

I think I know your concern about this in relation to Israel and the Palestinians, but that prejudice is based more on experience than ideology.

Zionism is an ideology , in fact Jews never entertained returning to Israel , it became a facet during the European empire and colonization days of the 19th century . Nowhere does the Torah mention returning to that land until the Messiah comes . that fact is that Zionist have given The Chosen people a newer and more sinister meaning , namely because Zionism has created victims in the Palestinians .

 

[Brian Foley]

M*W: Recent biblical scholorship would indicate that Moses never existed and the Exodus never happened. Even I, formerly, was a student of Moses' comings and goings, but later learned that Moses was just another name for another hero in history called Sargon, and the Ten Commandments were plagarized from the Code of Hammurabi. Genesis had at least three authors (all Egyptian), and the 'Pentateuch' doesn't really mean the first five books of the bible. Job was the oldest book written as a play and not Genesis as the story of creation. In fact, Noah's Flood was plagarized from the earlier Flood of Gilgemesh.

I clearly see your point , concerning the Bible , this work is nothing more than a concoction of man , Stories as you pointed out such as Samson did indeed derive from Egyptian folklore and more importantly the Story of Gilgamesh which I did a post on here last year is what the Genesis of the Bible has directly ripped off .

The Flood stories were to have taken place prior to the myths of A&E in the GoE. And for the record, both the old and new testaments are so embedded in Egyptian astrotheology that they are nothing more than ancient astrological calendars referencing animals like rams, lambs, fish; elements like rain, wind, fire and air; numbers like 3 Mary's, 3 Magi, the trinity, 3 days Jonah was in the belly of a whale, 3 days between crucifixion and resurrection (an impossibility, I might add); 7 days in a week, 7th son(sun) of the 7th son(sun), 12 days of Christmas, 12 apostles, 12 months in a year, Mary was age 12 when she was impregnated, 12 tribes, and Jesus was age 12 when he was found at the temple; 30 days in a month, Jesus was 30 years when his ministry began, there are 30 degrees in every astrological sign; 40 days it rained, 40 days and nights Jesus prayed in the desert, Moses spent 40 years in the desert, and Jesus ascended on the 40th day; 144 (12x12) means wholly, entirely, and the alpha and the omega -- the entire orbit around the zodiac.

That is extremely interesting that numerology coupled with astrology I shall look into that further . It seems from what you put forward here is that the earlier books of the Bible as in the order we have them today is firstly due to mainly Egyptian and Babylonian(Iraqi) influence . How much of the later Old Testament was influenced by the Greek thought of Alexanders time ?

Moses has been ruled scholarly out as having written about his own death. The whole aura of the 'Pentateuch' reeks of Egyptian culture. The ancient Hebrews (Abiru) were Egyptian, and there is a very fine line between Egyptians and Jews (but don't tell them I said that!). The only true difference between Jews and Arabs is their holy books and land holdings. Genetically, they're the same. In fact, we all may be Egyptian offshoots.

But did the Jews actually reside in Egypt as claimed ? Clearly from this link the American archaeologist Mark Lehner and Egyptian archaeologist Zahi Hawass say that no Jews built these structures and they cannot find any trace of where the Jews lived in Egypt .
Who Built the Pyramids?
In fact the Red Sea crossing has been dismissed as well .

All I'm saying is don't credit some guy named 'Moses' (there were quite a few of them in the 18 Dynasty alone, and 'Moses' isn't a name, it's a pharaonic title, and there were multitudes of Moseses in Memphis.

I only implied Moses authored these books as to fit in with the line of debate for the sake of the argument . Moses did not obviously author these books , or if this character Moses existed he simply plagiarized the Iraqi Gilgamesh epic .

The actual chronology of the books of the bible were NOT, repeat NOT written in the order they appear in the bible. Just like the gospels, the earliest one written was Mark (Mars) circa 70 AD not Matthew (Ma'at or Mithras). Just for the record, Luke (Lucifer) and John (Oannes), Thomas (Tammuz), Peter (Ju-Peter), Paul (Apollo), for starters.

I realize there were additions , I believe over time additions were made as the ancient Hebrews came into contact with other neighbouring cultures . You can see with the New Testament that it really reads like Greek Philosophy current at the time Israel being under Roman rule .

I have to run now, or I could go on forever, but I do look forward to your response.

Yes I have enjoyed your post and thank you I have learnt some interesting items such as that numerology lesson which I shall investigate further ,

 

[Medicine*Woman]

But did the Jews actually reside in Egypt as claimed ? Clearly from this link the American archaeologist Mark Lehner and Egyptian archaeologist Zahi Hawass say that no Jews built these structures and they cannot find any trace of where the Jews lived in Egypt .
Who Built the Pyramids?
In fact the Red Sea crossing has been dismissed as well .

*************
M*W: The reason they could not find any trace of Jews/Hebrews living in Egypt is because they weren't Jews/Hebrews, they were Egyptians. Hebrews evolved out of Egyptians, their name was changed to give them a distinction, but they were nothing more, nothing less, than Egyptians.

Who built the pyramids? I don't know, but it wasn't the Jews. I personally think that the Egyptians at that time were an advanced race. Why else would they place the pyramids in alignment with certain stars? They were really into the gods from the skies (space beings). I'm still quite skeptical on their existence. I guess you could rightfully say that as far as ETs go, I'm agnostic.

I tend to think that some kind of anti-gravity was used and the pyramids may have been built from top to bottom rather than from ground up. The world is full of pyramids, not just Egypt. They all appeared around the same timeline. Why are the Aztec, Mayan and Peruvian pyramids so similar to the Chinese temple pyramid etchings when these countries were separated by the vast Pacific Ocean? I don't know, but I'm inclined to believe that the Titan's did exist and it would have been quite easy for a Titan to stack a bunch of small boulders together without any effort.

Regardless of how the pyramids were built, or if there were any real sky gods, we know for sure humanity existed and evolved. As long as we look beyond our own dimension for some kind of creator god, we limit our own creative power and become our own adversary.

 

[Brian Foley]

As long as we look beyond our own dimension for some kind of creator god, we limit our own creative power and become our own adversary.

Thanks for that interesting post MW , I find the Egyptian angle very interesting .

 

[Brian Foley]

I can now safely decalre to Zephyr that I have accomplished what he dared me to do in this thread and have held the assertion that Judaism is a supremacist religious/ideology .No argument was put forward successfully to disprove this assertion .

The matter is now closed .

 

[The Devil Inside]

as long as there is bigotry in the world, no issue resembling this will be closed.

you are a bigot.

please ban brian foley


spidergoat: i thought that the rule was no "threads" could be started about banning a certain person. if i am doing wrong, moderators please pm me to say so.


please ban brian foley.

 

[Zephyr]

so stop attempting to make out I deliberately authored an extremist thread .

I'm not. However, the assertion I quote is what I was responding to in the other thread, the reason I suggested you create a thread in this forum, and the assertion I am responding to here.

Your first link about the Chosen People points out only 2 minority Christian Groups The Mormons and Seventh Day Adventists see themselves as a chosen people , these 2 groups hardly represent Christianity and are on the fringe . Nowhere does your link provide quotes concerning the Koran or the Christian nor the Hindu beliefs only to say that there are segments of opinions that consider themselves chosen , but not based on scriptural evidence . More importantly this link has the included the Nazi master race concept alongside the Jewish chosen people concept , so do you think this chosen people concept has supremacist overtones ?

Firstly, I've shown that it isn't "Jews are the only religion that does", unless you say that none of the other groups you mention are religions.

Secondly, we're talking about whether the ideology is racist. Mormons may be a fringe group, but are they racist? Have Mormons ever wiped out an ethnic group, or performed ethnic cleansing, or blown up a busload of civilians? They may be more assertive in their faith, but how does 'fringe' equate to 'racist'?

Thirdly, here you manage to discern between some Christian groups and others. Now if you look at my first link you would see that different Jewish groups have different views too. Did you notice this?

So not only isn't it "Jews are the only religion that does", within Judaism there are different viewpoints. Just like Christianity has different levels of extremism in different groups? Or Islam?

 

[Zephyr]

As for this 2nd link , I can only accept that as other than a cop out by you yourself , simply to make out I am simply singling out Jews and selectively taking quotes out of context from the bible to arrive at a skewered viewpoint that reinforces a point of view . You asked me to do this thread concerning this subject and I have complied , I even PMed you to come here and enjoin this debate . I appreciate your points , but you are really avoiding answering the quotes and whether they are offensive or not , and I would like it very much if you could address these quotes and provide an answer as to whether these quotes are indeed offensive and provoke the kind of ideological excess’s common to Zionism against other human beings , that is what is sick .

I don't have time or desire to do so myself, but it's easy to select similar quotes from the New Testament or Quran. It's not a cop-out; it's just that I don't think it's worthwhile responding to something that can be used to incriminate almost any religion equally. The assertion "Jews are the only religion that does" is still false.

Regarding Zionism, I agree that the situation in the ME is less than ideal. But does ethnic cleansing of Jews in Arab lands mean that all Muslims are supremicist racists? Does the KKK mean that all Christians are supremicist racists? If not, how can you possibly infer that Israel represents all Jews?

Really, I think most people on this thread would agree that I've shown that:

Non-Jewish groups also hold to the 'chosenness' concept. (E.g. Christians believe that in the New Testament their chosenness is added to, or replaces that of the Jews)
In these groups only extremists use this concept to defend supremism. The same is true in Judaism.

If from this Foley wishes to argue Jews are still somehow more racist than Christians or Muslims, then I suspect he'll make himself look either foolish, or bigoted, or both.

 

[john smith]

Could it be Brian, that you are totally loseing this argument?

A word of advice, give the fuck over.

:m:

 

[The Devil Inside]

zephyr...he already looked foolish and bigoted BEFORE he even made this thread. he once went through all my posts in order to try and make me look confused, or as a liar.

he asserted that i said i was mormon, when i am most certainly not.
he said that my heritage was a lie, and still clings to this because he has nothing else to claim. these are examples of personal attacks he makes on people who happen to disagree with him. several times in other threads, i have given scriptural evidence for what i have stated on this thread, but he couldnt take the time to look THOSE up, because they might make him seem foolish for saying i never said those things.

he is a troll. nothing more.

please ban brian foley.

 

[GeoffP]

What was all that whining about diversion, anyway?

Foley doesn't like straight answers; he doesn't deal in them, and they confuse him, like looking into a car's headlights, or seeing something shiny.

Geoff