Chosen People = Racist Supremacist Ideology

[Brian Foley]

Firstly, I've shown that it isn't "Jews are the only religion that does", unless you say that none of the other groups you mention are religions.

No you havent , you have shown a link which gives Christianity , Islam and Hinduism as examples saying their religion according to their scriptures is the true faith , but in no way does these faiths say that their practitioners are the chosen ones of God . And again in your link Nazism and Zionism were the only ideologies which called their followers the Chosen .

Secondly, we're talking about whether the ideology is racist. Mormons may be a fringe group, but are they racist? Have Mormons ever wiped out an ethnic group, or performed ethnic cleansing, or blown up a busload of civilians? They may be more assertive in their faith, but how does 'fringe' equate to 'racist'?

Actually Balcks could not be Mormons , and up until 1976 this was enforced , the only black in heaven was the slave of Joseph Smith the founder of Mormonism , that is no bullshit .And there are extreme groups within that sect which have set about murdering others an example to set pure Mormonism such as polygamy , the was a case in the 80's .

Thirdly, here you manage to discern between some Christian groups and others. Now if you look at my first link you would see that different Jewish groups have different views too. Did you notice this?

Look I know you have very progressive Jewish groups which are liberal and you have very fundamentalist groups . All sects of Judaism be they liberal , conservative or fanatic still hold to that concept that they are a chosen people and God divenely gifted them land .

So not only isn't it "Jews are the only religion that does", within Judaism there are different viewpoints. Just like Christianity has different levels of extremism in different groups? Or Islam?

But on this thread we are discussing Judaism not other religions , you are really trying to spread the blame out and say "well they do it so why cant we". Just address it do you think that the term chosen people is racist and offensive in our modern world ?

I don't have time or desire to do so myself, but it's easy to select similar quotes from the New Testament or Quran. It's not a cop-out; it's just that I don't think it's worthwhile responding to something that can be used to incriminate almost any religion equally. The assertion "Jews are the only religion that does" is still false.

I take that as an admission that you cant provide any tracts from any other reliogion which compares with Judaism's exclusiveness . Judaism is a very unique religion in that they believe they are Gods chosen people , the Christian and Islamic texts clearly reinforce that concept of Jews as well , as those 2 religions grew from that tree .

Regarding Zionism, I agree that the situation in the ME is less than ideal. But does ethnic cleansing of Jews in Arab lands mean that all Muslims are supremicist racists? Does the KKK mean that all Christians are supremicist racists? If not, how can you possibly infer that Israel represents all Jews?

What do you mean ethnic cleansing those Jews left in an orderly fashion , such as Iraqi Jews as they had airlifts , and besides not all Jews left these arab countries Iraq and Iran still have sizeable Jewish communities . There was plenty of American Jewish pressure on those nations to get them to send their Jewish populations to Israel . Same as after WW2 those European Jews who survived werent allowed to immigrate to the New World most were put on boats to Palestine . In effect Israel was artificially created .

Really, I think most people on this thread would agree that I've shown that:

You havent shown anything and most people on this thread are of a extremely pro-Israel bias and as you well know an equally bigoted towards Islam .

Non-Jewish groups also hold to the 'chosenness' concept. (E.g. Christians believe that in the New Testament their chosenness is added to, or replaces that of the Jews)
In these groups only extremists use this concept to defend supremism. The same is true in Judaism.

And again no religion other than Judaism holds that their practitioners are in fact the chosen people . 5 million Palestinians were displaced into refugee camps and today suffer unimaginable oppression because a group of people see themselves as Gods Chosen People and seeing their God gave his people a nation they dispossesed an entire people of the lives .

If from this Foley wishes to argue Jews are still somehow more racist than Christians or Muslims, then I suspect he'll make himself look either foolish, or bigoted, or both.

There you go again , making himself the victim , clearly you asked , or better yet , dared me to do this thraed and here you are attempting to make out I have deliberately and volutarily constructed an anti-Semitic tract . Thats why this thraed hasnt been locked up because the mods are aware of why this thraed has been constructed . Stop playing the victim and start answering the questions .

Once again no religion be it Christianity , Islam , Hinduism , Bhuddism etc claim they are a chosen people . Now I laid out several quotes which 3 of them ie: the Chosen People , Gods gift of Israel and the persecution of Gentiles is justified in those verses and currently Israel is prosecuting those policies because of Biblical writ . Can you explain the Jewish scriptual justification of these policies towards non-Jews .

 

[Brian Foley]

Could it be Brian, that you are totally loseing this argument?

A word of advice, give the fuck over.

:m:

Good you must of seen where on this thread where the concept of "The Chosen People " was tackled head on , because I for the life of me cant find it , could you show me where I cant seem to find it ? Or better yet why dont you address it , put your mouth on the line .

 

[The Devil Inside]

for being done talking about this, you sure wont shut up, foley.

please ban brian foley for extreme anti-semitism.

 

[Xerxes]

He should be banned on the grounds of stupidity, not anti-semitism.

Man, does this factory worker guy ever shut up about the evil Jews?

 

[GeoffP]

No you havent , you have shown a link which gives Christianity , Islam and Hinduism as examples saying their religion according to their scriptures is the true faith , but in no way does these faiths say that their practitioners are the chosen ones of God . And again in your link Nazism and Zionism were the only ideologies which called their followers the Chosen .

And the difference between "chosen people" and "those that will inherit the kingdom of God etc etc" is....?

But on this thread we are discussing Judaism not other religions , you are really trying to spread the blame out and say "well they do it so why cant we". Just address it do you think that the term chosen people is racist and offensive in our modern world ?

LOL - of course not! But you say any use of "chosen people" terminology is exclusionary (and I can't believe I have to give Foley his proper terminology, but it's better than letting him stagger around in the dark), then wouldn't you consider Diamond's commentaries exclusionary also? She's talked at least once about muslims being allah's "chosen". BTW, you said "racist" again - and here you keep telling me you think Jewish people aren't a race! Sort out that Khazar thing yet? LOL

I take that as an admission that you cant provide any tracts from any other reliogion which compares with Judaism's exclusiveness .

Then you're wrong yet again. Why does anyone have to provide you with quotes of the perception of moral superiority? They are certainly evident in islam and Christianity. Should we then ban all religion?

the Christian and Islamic texts clearly reinforce that concept of Jews as well , as those 2 religions grew from that tree .

What are you on about here? Come on, provide some quotes, if your points are at all meaningful.

What do you mean ethnic cleansing those Jews left in an orderly fashion , such as Iraqi Jews as they had airlifts , and besides not all Jews left these arab countries Iraq and Iran still have sizeable Jewish communities .

Nope - they're all quietly disappearing. Strange, that, eh?

Can you explain the Jewish scriptual justification of these policies towards non-Jews .

Can you first prove that there are any such policies and that they are being applied by religion, and not political basis?

Geoff

 

[GeoffP]

Here's a sweeping indictment of all those out-of-context quotes: they were spoken by God, not orders from a Prophet. There's no invective to "get out and attack the un-Chosen", as you find in some religions. Well, one anyway. God's just going to give them the land; it doesn't say "take it".

Done and done. You lose.

Geoff

 

[The Devil Inside]

indeed, geoff. judaism is one of the only major religions that i can think of whose members dont wander through the streets, knocking on doors prosetelyzing. (<---did i spell that right? )

its cuz we want to remove others of differing religions from the planet....oh wait, thats islam...ok let me try again....we tell everyone about how our godly savior was murdered by a bunch of italians?....nope, got it wrong again. nope, we mind our own business, and let the world turn as it should.

just because a few assholes show up at a rave and start blowing away candykids, doesnt mean all ravers are bad.

get it through your head, brian fooley.

 

[The Devil Inside]

oh, i almost forgot....

please ban brian foley.

 

[Zephyr]

Listen carefullly, 'cause I'm only doing this once. These quotes are from the articles I linked to.

No you havent , you have shown a link which gives Christianity , Islam and Hinduism as examples saying their religion according to their scriptures is the true faith , but in no way does these faiths say that their practitioners are the chosen ones of God .

"Supersessionism is the belief of some Christians that Christians have replaced Israel as God's Chosen people"

"Muslims who believe Islam is in an adversarial relationship with Christianity and Judaism, cite other verses such as:

O you who believe! Do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people."

All sects of Judaism be they liberal , conservative or fanatic still hold to that concept that they are a chosen people and God divenely gifted them land .

"Reconstructionist Judaism rejects the concept of chosenness."

Just address it do you think that the term chosen people is racist and offensive in our modern world ?

Depends on how it's used. If extremists use it to justify racism, it's racist; if it's used to encourage people to make the world a better place, obviously it isn't.

What do you mean ethnic cleansing

"Typically, this emigration followed documentable discrimination, harassment, persecution, and financial confiscation on the part of the majority population and / or government agencies."


There, that wasn't so hard, was it? Now next time, can you read for yourself?

 

[GeoffP]

Zephyr:

Nice.

Geoff

 

[GeoffP]

indeed, geoff. judaism is one of the only major religions that i can think of whose members dont wander through the streets, knocking on doors prosetylyzing. (<---did i spell that right? )

'Zactly.

Geoff

 

[The Devil Inside]

please ban brian foley.

 

[Brian Foley]

Here's a sweeping indictment of all those out-of-context quotes: they were spoken by God, not orders from a Prophet.

Oh great you are finally going to address these Quotes ?

There's no invective to "get out and attack the un-Chosen", as you find in some religions.

Yes it does .

For the nation or kingdom that will not serve you will perish; it will be utterly ruined.
Isaiah 60:12

Well, one anyway. God's just going to give them the land; it doesn't say "take it".

Yes God did tell the chosen ones to take it and murder the inhabitants .

27And he said unto them, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his side, and go in and out from gate to gate throughout the camp, and slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbour.

Done and done. You lose.

Your not a very bright person are you .

BTW, you said "racist" again - and here you keep telling me you think Jewish people aren't a race! Sort out that Khazar thing yet? LOL

They are not a race , however this thread was done on request by another poster who is Jewish , and seeing supporters here such as yourself see Jews as a race then so I shall construct a post pertaining to that . As you yourself have rtecently said twice that they are a race even on your genetic thread .

Jewish race myth trash, and Khazarian converts
However, breeding within a homogenous subpopulation for a good, what? 5000 years? says to me strongly that they are indeed a "race"

And here is the other more clear and concise where you actually say the Jews are a race .

Cartoons - bad for your health?
Wrong again. One is offensive to the religious position of muslims - who, as you know, are not a race - and one to the existence of Jews, which are a race.

Of course now for the convenience of this debate you have contradicted yourself and climbed down .

 

[Brian Foley]

Listen carefullly, 'cause I'm only doing this once. These quotes are from the articles I linked to.

“Supersessionism” nice word however no scriptual quote to say Christians are a “chosen people” , and the Koran quote , how does that stack up as a “chosen people” concept ? Show me quotes from either the New Testament or the Koran which endorse your claim that these faiths also claim “chosen people” status , remember you are making the claim so back it up .

"Reconstructionist Judaism rejects the concept of chosenness."

Fuck the word “choseness “ do reconstructionist Jews reject that Jews are a “chosen people” ? Answer me that ! They don’t do they these reconstructionist Jews still hold that Jews are a chosen people and Israel is their God given land , thye just have modified the interpretation .

Depends on how it's used. If extremists use it to justify racism, it's racist; if it's used to encourage people to make the world a better place, obviously it isn't.

I provided ample Biblical quotes that clearly point to it as a supremacist tract , that is relation to seizing lands and taking peoples lives . Just read the thread , how is it making the world a better place ? So far since 1948 this Zionist Biblical dream has cost the US taxpayer $1 trillion in aid 5 million Palestinians their livelihoods , and started several wars and is the catalyst for an impending Atomic arms race . All because some people believe they are a chosen people who have a divine right to some real estate and its ok to murder Gentiles because they have divine exemption cards .

"Typically, this emigration followed documentable discrimination, harassment, persecution, and financial confiscation on the part of the majority population and / or government agencies."

Yeah . yeah Im sure , so why are there still Jewish minorities in Iraq and Iran .

There, that wasn't so hard, was it? Now next time, can you read for yourself?

How about next time instead of comparison games with other religions we just stick to what Jews are doing in the name of God . You display no problem in highlighting excesses of Moslems on other threads , so if you set the standard I expect you set the example on this thread . I would like you to read my thread and answer each quote and tell me why it is not racist supremacism .

 

[GeoffP]

Oh great you are finally going to address these Quotes ?

I just did.

Yes it does .

Again, that's a GOD talking, not some guy telling you to go do it. Exodus 32:27 refers to a specific event. It is not a general order for all time. Talk about not bright...

They are not a race

Then why, O benighted numbskull, is the title of the thread "Chosen People = Racist Supremacist Ideology"? If they aren't a race, then why do you feel you can call Judaism "racist", since the contrast is obviously with non-Jews?

As for myself, I've already explained to you as clearly as humanly possible that the jury is still out on whether they could be called a "race", but that they exhibit genetic similarity with Palestinians and with each other. Whether you cal. The comments you refer to, much like your thinking, is old. But it does at least signal you've given up on the Khazar hypothesis.

I accept your surrender.

Geoff

 

[GeoffP]

“Supersessionism” nice word however no scriptual quote to say Christians are a “chosen people” , and the Koran quote , how does that stack up as a “chosen people” concept ? Show me quotes from either the New Testament or the Koran which endorse your claim that these faiths also claim “chosen people” status , remember you are making the claim so back it up .

Obtuse. It's the only conclusion I can draw about you, Foley. Obtuse.

Yeah . yeah Im sure , so why are there still Jewish minorities in Iraq and Iran .

I would like you to read my thread and answer each quote and tell me why it is not racist supremacism .

Oh, so now it's racist supremacism for its own sake? Not "because all the big kids say Judaism's a race and they're so mean and they made me title the thread *sniff sniff*". Make up your bloody mind, ponce.

Geoff

 

[android]

Jews are totally "racist" in that they exclude other races and cultures.

That's just smart thinking.

Zionism is Jewish National Socialism, and it should be supported.

 

[The Devil Inside]

zionism should NOT be supported, android.
it is zionists that give the rest of us a bad name.


please ban brian foley.

 

[DiamondHearts]

This argument has been dealt with already.

It's strange - when you post hatred of Jews, you claim they're not a race, so you can't be accused of racism. Then you claim they are a race, so you can accuse them of racism. Make up your mind.

Geoff

Hey you have a quote of me saying something anti-Jewish?

I never have said anything anti-Jewish.

I'm anti-Zionist and thus anti-Israeli, but I respect Jewish religion and Jewish ethnicity.

Zionism is a political movement, it has nothing to do with religion, infact its anti-religion.

Peace.

 

[Brian Foley]

I just did.

No you haven’t and seeing you are deliberately avoiding them I will repost it the entire thread .

Jews believe themselves a Chosen People divinely chosen by God and those who are not Jews are Gentiles meaning heathens .

But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days declares the Lord. I will put My Torah within them, and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.
Jeremiah 31:31-34:

And God divinely presents real estate to his Chosen People .

And I will give to you and to your descendants after you, the land of your temporary residence, all the land of Canaan as an eternal possession and I will be a God to them.
Genesis 17:8

The Chosen People believe a Jewish Messiah will arise in Israel and he will smite Israels Gentile enemies .

I will raise up a prophet from among their countrymen, like you (Moses), and I will put My words in his mouth, and he shall speak all that I command him. And it shall come about that whoever will not listen to My words which he shall speak in My name, I Myself will require him
Deuterotomy 18:18-19:

The Jewish Messiah can only be Jewish

you may appoint a king over you, whom the Lord your God shall choose: one from among your brethren shall you set as king over you.
Deuteronomy 17:15

He must gather the Jewish people from exile and return them to Israel , in the process evicting and oppressing 5 million Palestinians and making their lives a 5th World hell .

And he shall set up a banner for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth
Isaiah 11:12

Then the Jewish Messiah will be murdered by the Chosen People themselves.

And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for himself; and the people of the prince who is to come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.
Daniel 9:26

The Gentile nations will come against Israel to invade with the sole intention of destroying the Jewish people and the Chosen Peoples God will directly intervene to destroy the Gentile .

For I am with you', says the Lord, 'to save you; though I make a full end of all nations where I have scattered you, yet I will not make a complete end of you.
Jeremiah 30:11

God will then judge the nations depending upon their treatment of the the Chosen People .

In those days and at that time, when I restore the fortunes of Judah and Jerusalem, I will gather all nations and bring them down to the Valley of Jehoshaphat. There I will enter into judgment against them concerning my inheritance, my people Israel, for they scattered my people among the nations and divided up my land.
Joel 1:1-2

The Jews as the chosen people will then rule the world and we Gentiles will serve the Jews .

Foreigners will rebuild your walls, and their kings will serve you.
Isaiah 60:10

Ant the Gentiles will financially pay for it , of course , the funny thing is we are at the moment paying for Israel , so whats new ?

Your gates will always stand open, they will never be shut, day or night , so that men may bring you the wealth of the nations , their kings led in triumphal procession.
Isaiah 60:11

And those of us Gentiles who refuse this servitude to the Chosen People will be smitten down and condemned to eternally damnation .

For the nation or kingdom that will not serve you will perish; it will be utterly ruined.
Isaiah 60:12

And seeing we are in the Chosen Peoples eyes guilty for our Fathers sins we will have to bow down at the Chosen Peoples feet apologize and praise them !

The sons of your oppressors will come bowing before you; all who despise you will bow down at your feet and will call you the City of the LORD, Zion of the Holy One of Israel.
Isaiah 60:14

I believe this religion should have these offensive verses removed from their holy books , afterall the Chosen People themselves are succeeding in having this verse removed from Christian books .

Now please go through each one and explain why it is not racist supremacism .

Again, that's a GOD talking, not some guy telling you to go do it. Exodus 32:27 refers to a specific event. It is not a general order for all time. Talk about not bright...

What the Fuck has that to do with it ? Whether its God or Moses it still written down as scripture .

Then why, O benighted numbskull, is the title of the thread "Chosen People = Racist Supremacist Ideology"? If they aren't a race, then why do you feel you can call Judaism "racist", since the contrast is obviously with non-Jews?

OK one more time boxhead , this was my reason for posting this thread .

They are not a race , however this thread was done on request by another poster who is Jewish , and seeing supporters here such as yourself see Jews as a race then so I shall construct a post pertaining to that . As you yourself have rtecently said twice that they are a race even on your genetic thread .

Meaning that seeing posters such as yourself see Jews as a race ( a claim you are now distancing yourself from ) then those tracts must be racist .

Got It !!!! Seeing you and others claim they are a race , then accordingly these verses must be racist supremacism .

Before I forget I did ask you earlier , and you didn’t reply , could you answer this .

Yawn...ok. Already clarified what the analysis means. I considered Jews to be a race in the genetic sense before I saw the data, but the data indicates that they are a 'race', best case, in the sense that they're a culturally distinct group with marginal breeding isolation. I was wrong in my assumption about Jewish genetics, but then again I'm not into human genetics. Crawling out of what, exactly?

So you finally agree with me and mountain that Jews are simply a loose confederation of converts consisting of many different races , nationalities and cultures .

Is that you stance now Boxhead ?

I accept your surrender.

Fuck what planet did this Arsehole drop from ? Seriously do you morris dance as a hobby ?
Better yet as poster earlier by another poster on this thread he summed it up best .

Come on Jewish scholars, Diamond Heart (THE most patient tolerant muslim on the planet!) answered MANY MANY questions in the Isalmic threads please pay the courtesy of doing the same here? The 'chosen one ' theme is accurate, please explain it? Devil inside are you able to explain it, maybe you have done so and I missed it? Please direct me to the reply..thank you.

Mind you its pointless asking you for any explanation .

Obtuse. It's the only conclusion I can draw about you, Foley. Obtuse.

Fuck this from a clown who was clobbered on his own thread about gentics , oh yeah , which I was promised starling updates that would turn my head , ROFL , oh yeah , and the sound and embarassin thrashing mountainhare handed you over the Khazarist thread . Obtuse , Dense is an apt word for you .

Oh, so now it's racist supremacism for its own sake? Not "because all the big kids say Judaism's a race and they're so mean and they made me title the thread *sniff sniff*". Make up your bloody mind, ponce.

Fuck mate , what you lack in intelligence you sure as hell make up in stupidity .You first claimed Jews were a race and here you contradict yourself and sayi you have changed your mind , you are a liar , you change your argument when it suits you .