Chosen People = Racist Supremacist Ideology

[Zephyr]

Firstly, since anyone of any race can become Jewish by conversion, I don't think there is a question of racial discrimination. Instead I'll address the question of religious discrimination.

Of course there are some extreme Jews who see themselves as superior to people of other religions. There are districts in Israel where driving on Saturday (which technically breaks the sabbath) will have your vehicle stoned. Not very friendly.

But is this representative of all Jews? Well...

Is Fred Phelps representative of all Christians? He created the sites godhatesfags, priestsrapeboys, godhatesamerica, godhatescanada, and godhatessweden (.com). Mmm, sure likes the word 'hate'.

Are Saudi Arabia, a Muslim state which refuses entry into the country to Jews (not Israelis, Jews) and Afghanistan, which enforces the death penalty for anyone converting from Islam (recent news), representative of all Muslims?

(Is Brian Foley representative of Australians? Just kidding...)

Unless you have reason to answer 'yes' to any of the above questions, I believe that settles the question of "Judaism=racism?".


Now when I said 'research' I was thinking of something a little more two-sided, but since you've already come up with your view here are some alternative views:
Wiki and some Christian site.

The first link even contains an interesting section on something called 'quote mining'.

 

[GeoffP]

No , it is completely a retraction and stand down from your assertion here

Wrong again. I assumed they were; the evidence specifically indicates that they have no genetic divergence from Palestinians, nor between European and non-European Jews. Similar evidence also indicates differentiation between Jews/Palestinians and other groups. I am unconvinced as to whether they are or aren't a race.

Be that as it may, your position is that the above statements are racist. Ergo, you consider the Jews a race specifically when it suits your position or hatred to do so, which is patently ludicrous. If you now consider them a race in order to level the charge of racism against Judaism, then you must now also accept that you are, in fact, a racist.

Plenty here agree with me

Oh? Who? Diamond, the resident hack-and-slash queen? I assure you, her rabid homophobia and islamic supremacist stance - coupled with the fact that she just did a runner from the site - doesn't impugn her believability at all. Not a bit. Or is this like the mythical "other sites" you said you'd heard about me on? (And are you ever going to illustrate which ones?)

I ahve to wait for mountainhare to see this and join in , he is at uni studying

Dumbass, I'm at uni teaching, and I can still write in. Or maybe mountain doesn't back you any more?

I know where its going , once again 7 posts from GeoffP and true to form he has not even touched the verses i quoted in my thraed .

You have no idea where it's going, and I already responded to them. Sad.

Ahhhh , for starters isnt the Jewish claim to Israel a Biblical claim ? I mean you can read here how Israeli Jews are doing just that .

And they didn't try to take it over militarily; they came in peacefully and refused to submit. How's that have anything to do with their religion?

Geoff

 

[spidergoat]

The Jews believe only they have a special relationship with God which excludes Gentiles .

I thought every group, religion or club excludes others by definition.

And the Jews believe their God ends up making these gentiles the slaves ,whilst the Jews rule the world and all the worlds races and nations from their capital in Jerusalem .

But it doesn't tell them to do it, just that God will favor them.

Who wrote the Bible God or man ? You talk here as if you actually believe this Bible was written by God himself . The Bible is mainly a rip off from other religions stories such as genesis came from the story of Gilgamesh and samson from the Egyptians .

I know, dude. But religious people feel that it was devinely inspired. Whatever it's origin, it is not the tradition to change it, only reinterpret it. The old testament also tells people to stone adulterers to death, but this is not popular nowadays.

Self critical , could you give me examples of this self criticism .

Every watch Seinfeld? ...or anything by Woody Allen?

Could you discuss the verses I quoted and tell me what you think of them.

I thought I was.

 

[GeoffP]

Yasser Arafat’s Palestinian Authority recently aired an “educational” television program claiming the biblical Hebrews were actually Arabs, that the land was dominated by Islam in biblical times, and that “Canaanite Arabs” built Solomon’s Temple.

That Yasser - always good for a laugh.

Seriously, Brian, find those sites yet? Get looking.

Geoff

 

[Medicine*Woman]

Moses only wrote up to the first 5 books of Exodus.

*************
M*W: What you stated is confusing. What do you mean by your statement? What first five books are you talking about? Are you referring to "the Exodus out of Egypt?" Also, please provide some scholarly references to you statements.

 

[Xerxes]

There are districts in Israel where driving on Saturday (which technically breaks the sabbath) will have your vehicle stoned. Not very friendly.

I've driven through those areas.

These ugly children, with long sideburns will throw small rocks and yell at anything that moves... not enough to break windows, but it sure is annoying.

 

[Hapsburg]

Yeah sure , I found 2 other quotes from you about the Jews being a race you just got caught out , deal with it.

And you just simply ignore anything anyone else says. Like I said, retard, I changed my opinion on the matter inbetween that two-month-old thread and this one. Perhaps you have a hard time understanding the concept that people have the ability to change thier opinions. Oh, wait, that's probably because you never do. You never listen to reason or any other people, only you misguided antisemitic view.

What do you think of those verses , that is the subject of the thread are they a racist agenda as in the 21st century concept of racism . Should those verses be expunged from the holy books ?

What holy books? To me, they are just storybooks, seeing as god does not exist and everything in the bible is bullcrap.

 

[Brian Foley]

Unless you have reason to answer 'yes' to any of the above questions, I believe that settles the question of "Judaism=racism?".

No it really hasn’t I would like a discussion on the points and verses I raised in the thread and explained why none would constitute supremicism .

Now when I said 'research' I was thinking of something a little more two-sided, but since you've already come up with your view here are some alternative views:

Thank you but none are applicable to this thread , you asked me to author , but I woulds like a more indepth answer on those verses .

Wrong again…………….

Shut Up you Fucking clown more Bullshit cant you argue straight .

Oh? Who?

Gustav , mountain , spurious , diamond , Neildo plenty ! I have already pointed out the quote from another poster concerning your other forums , I wouldn’t waste time tracking you down , you are a wanker .

Dumbass, I'm at uni teaching, and I can still write in. Or maybe mountain doesn't back you any more?

Don’t worry cup cake I gotta show him this , you climbing down and being caught out contradicting yourself .

You have no idea where it's going, and I already responded to them.

Where I for the life of cannot find anywhere on this thread where you have addressed one verse .

And they didn't try to take it over militarily; they came in peacefully and refused to submit. How's that have anything to do with their religion?

Don’t avoid answering this question you clearly asked me in the last post where Jews have used Biblical dogma to justify their actions .

I thought every group, religion or club does this by definition

Which religious groups practice the same chosen people beliefs .

I know, dude. But religious people feel that it was devinely inspired. Whatever it's origin, it is not the tradition to change it, only reinterpret it. The old testament also tells people to stone adulterers to death, but this is not popular nowadays.

We were discussing the validity of the Bible and the beliefs associated with it , if the Bible was not divinely inspired then this must be a human concotion with supremacist overtones .
I would like it if you could lead me to a more serious Jewish critic of Judaism .

I thought I was.

You could statrt by explaining each verse or some of the verses as to why they are not racist .

M*W: What you stated is confusing.

Yeah it was confusing Im sorry , I had 2 differnet lines going and got a little ahead of myself I will clarify it here .

What do you mean by your statement?

Spidergoat said Moses wrote some I just enjoined .

What first five books are you talking about?

The 1st 5 books of the Bible which is known as the Pentateuch authoured by Moses .

Are you referring to "the Exodus out of Egypt?"

I was quoting the Exodus chapter 6 as an example of Gods bloodthirst .

Also, please provide some scholarly references to you statements.

.Pentateuch

 

[Brian Foley]

Yasser Arafat’s Palestinian Authority recently aired an “educational” television program claiming the biblical Hebrews were actually Arabs, that the land was dominated by Islam in biblical times, and that “Canaanite Arabs” built Solomon’s Temple.

That Yasser - always good for a laugh.

Seriously, Brian, find those sites yet? Get looking.

Geoff

Back the FUCK UP HERE !!!!!!!!! I demand you show where I said this !
I never said that , you have deliberately concocted a misleading quote , attached my name to this quote .

 

[spidergoat]

What I meant, Brian, is that every group by definition has exclusivity. This doesn't automatically lead to hatred of outsiders, but that is a danger. It doesn't say that you must hate anyone who isn't jewish, quite the opposite, in fact. Taken out of context, one could probably derive a racist ideology from it, but like Muslims, Jews as a whole are not a race. I didn't read in any of those passages the words "chosen people". I think most Jews are critics of their own religious texts, in fact this criticism is an institution in Judaism.

 

[charles cure]

On this thread, dipshit. If you want to call those statements racist, then the Jews by definition have to be a race in your argument, since you claim they're excluding anyone not of the Jewish "race".
Geoff

so what you're basically saying is that its totally ok to be exclusive and discriminatory if your basis is creed and not race? youre arguing foolish fucking semantics, both you and foley. the point is its still detrimental to the world to hold this view, whether its held by a jew, a muslim, a christian, or an atheist, an american, a chinese person, or a kurd. it doesnt matter. the problem for me is that i think that jews, as far as i have experienced, place the neeeds of other jews above those of other people, often champion strictly jewish causes, and here's the kicker - are one of the only ethnic groups in the world who have demanded and won their own ethnic homeland, even if they did have to steal it from someone else. so you can prattle on uselessly about what race is and isnt, the bottom line is that whatever it is, it sucks and its bad for the world, and jews accuse other people of it all the time, but then balk when it comes to a little self-examination of their own actions and those of their community.

 

[Brian Foley]

And you just simply ignore anything anyone else says. Like I said, retard, I changed my opinion on the matter inbetween that two-month-old thread and this one. Perhaps you have a hard time understanding the concept that people have the ability to change thier opinions. Oh, wait, that's probably because you never do. You never listen to reason or any other people, only you misguided antisemitic view.

Your first answer on here was that Jews were not a race yet on other threads you clearly stated that in fact Jews were a race . You in no way indicated in your answer on this thread straight up that you had changed your opinion on this matter . You were simply caught out contradicting yourself end of story .

What holy books? To me, they are just storybooks, seeing as god does not exist and everything in the bible is bullcrap.

Tell someone who cares .

What I meant, Brian, is that every group by definition has exclusivity. This doesn't automatically lead to hatred of outsiders, but that is a danger. It doesn't say that you must hate anyone who isn't jewish, quite the opposite, in fact.

Now we are getting somewhere , I personally believe the religious triangle of Christianity/Islam and Judaism are the most intolerant .

Taken out of context, one could probably derive a racist ideology from it, but like Muslims, Jews as a whole are not a race.

It does not matter here that the Jews are not a race we all know that they are simply a religious group , but the Jews do see themselves as a race .

I didn't read in any of those passages the words "chosen people". I think most Jews are critics of their own religious texts, in fact this criticism is an institution in Judaism.

The Jews refer to themselves as the Chosen people , the verses I listed refers to extreme cases of supremacism . As for critics I believe they are more discerners over interpretation .

youre arguing foolish fucking semantics, both you and foley

I simply constructed a thread on this subject because Zephyr a Jewish poster asked me to , I in no way am using any wordplay here I simply want these verses discussed and would like some answers from posters here who have no hesitation in highlighting extreme tracts from the Koran . Fair enough .

 

[Huwy]

What you have said is true,

but the koran says the same shit
and I don't see you complaining Brian

Could it be you have double standards?

 

[charles cure]

I simply constructed a thread on this subject because Zephyr a Jewish poster asked me to , I in no way am using any wordplay here I simply want these verses discussed and would like some answers from posters here who have no hesitation in highlighting extreme tracts from the Koran . Fair enough .

yeah man, it wasn't a criticism. i guess the point is that who cares, racism or not, what you call it doesn't matter because that doesn't alter the fact that its discriminatory and terrible.

 

[GeoffP]

Shut Up you Fucking clown more Bullshit cant you argue straight .

Awww, widda Foley all tired out. You need a nap.

Gustav , mountain , spurious , diamond , Neildo plenty ! I have already pointed out the quote from another poster concerning your other forums

Where, sheepdip? Where? This is pathetic. I'm not surprised Diamond - remember, the murderously homophobic wanna-be athiest hacker - is on side with you; I've settled my issues with mountain and if the rest actually disagree with me they could take issue with me themselves. Somehow I doubt the saner members of that group actually authorized you to be their spokesmonkey.

Don’t worry cup cake I gotta show him this , you climbing down and being caught out contradicting yourself .

Where I for the life of cannot find anywhere on this thread where you have addressed one verse .

No, I just addressed them en masse.

Don’t avoid answering this question you clearly asked me in the last post where Jews have used Biblical dogma to justify their actions .

Oh? And if the response to their arrival had been less violent, would the association have even had come up? Seriously.

Which religious groups practice the same chosen people beliefs .

All the Abrahamic ones.

Again, if you're arguing that those verses are racist, then that means that since the exclusion being made is Jews/non-Jews, that you're simultaneously saying that the Jews are actually a race. If so, then your criticisms of them are also racist.

Deal with it.

Back the FUCK UP HERE !!!!!!!!! I demand you show where I said this !
I never said that , you have deliberately concocted a misleading quote , attached my name to this quote .

Aww, Bwian need nap again? Easy, old timer - I should have specified that the quote therein was merely a supremacist citation with which you happen to fervently agree, and not something you'd be smart enough to write yourself. OK? All better? So sorry.

Geoff

 

[GeoffP]

so what you're basically saying is that its totally ok to be exclusive and discriminatory if your basis is creed and not race?

Not even close.

youre arguing foolish fucking semantics, both you and foley. the point is its still detrimental to the world to hold this view, whether its held by a jew, a muslim, a christian, or an atheist, an american, a chinese person, or a kurd. it doesnt matter. the problem for me is that i think that jews, as far as i have experienced, place the neeeds of other jews above those of other people, often champion strictly jewish causes, and here's the kicker - are one of the only ethnic groups in the world who have demanded and won their own ethnic homeland, even if they did have to steal it from someone else.

Semantics? Maybe.

But first off, although I can't speak to your experience, it isn't mine.

Second off, let's assume that perspective is true, and let's then put that perspective in perspective:

two thousand years of miserable, second-class treatment from Christian and islamic society at best, and before that, joy of joys: Roman domination.

fifty years ago, a lunatic backed by the most powerful nation in Europe tried to exterminate them all, and killed about six frigging million of them.

Sixteen million Jews, 2.1 billion Christians, 1.2 billion muslims in the world today, with overt hatred spewed at them from every mosque in the world, the echoes of the utterly ludicrous claim "Christ-killers" still resounding down through the ages, and a middle-aged reject from Cairns trying to indict them for the writings of a holy book that they don't follow explicitly - unless you've seen Israelis stoning any homosexuals to death lately?

And you wonder what right or reason they might have to be insular, or aloof?

jews accuse other people of it all the time, but then balk when it comes to a little self-examination of their own actions and those of their community.

But they don't. There are Jews all over who disagree strongly with Zionism, and with religious Zionism.

And assuming they actually are as insular as you say, why in hell would we require them to be otherwise? Can't they be as interested or disinterested in world affairs as you or I? Can't they have that right as individuals? Did you give any money to tsunami relief? How about New Orleans? Hiroshima? Chernobyl? Did you recognize Disabled Gay Inuit week? Why or why not? Do you belong to any groups that might or might not have done the same, or different? Are you a filthy Rotarian? How can we best categorize your failure to act - or your actions?

There are 16 million Jews in the entire world, and we somehow need them to pitch in for - what? Anything? Somehow the world's going to miss those 16 million donations against the over 6 billion that didn't fork over either?

Sixteen million people. For fuck's sakes, be the good whatever-the-hell-it-is- you're-pretending-at and leave them be.

Geoff

 

[charles cure]

Semantics? Maybe.

But first off, although I can't speak to your experience, it isn't mine.

Second off, let's assume that perspective is true, and let's then put that perspective in perspective:

two thousand years of miserable, second-class treatment from Christian and islamic society at best, and before that, joy of joys: Roman domination.

the romans dominated the land of half of the countries in existence right now and destroyed whole cultures, the jews got off pretty sweet under roman rule. muslims killed and persecuted a lot of christians in their lands despite official tolerance of the sect, and lets also not even mention what most early christians went through at the hands of the romans. the point here is - get over it, everyone else has.

fifty years ago, a lunatic backed by the most powerful nation in Europe tried to exterminate them all, and killed about six frigging million of them.

right, genocide has only ever happened to the jews. forget about what stalin did to his own people, the kurds, rwandan genocide... its all inconsequential compared to what the jews went through, i know.

Sixteen million Jews, 2.1 billion Christians, 1.2 billion muslims in the world today, with overt hatred spewed at them from every mosque in the world, the echoes of the utterly ludicrous claim "Christ-killers" still resounding down through the ages, and a middle-aged reject from Cairns trying to indict them for the writings of a holy book that they don't follow explicitly - unless you've seen Israelis stoning any homosexuals to death lately?

have you seen any israelis bulldozing palestinian homes? killing kids for being out after curfew? hmmm i wonder why the islamic world doesn't like them. also, please dont act like the christ-killers thing has any credibility among anyone but some extreme christian minority or some neo-nazi retards.

And you wonder what right or reason they might have to be insular, or aloof?

oh, so now being god's chosen people and excluding everyone else in the world that isnt a jew is just "standoffishness". interesting.

But they don't. There are Jews all over who disagree strongly with Zionism, and with religious Zionism.

and there are lots who support it. if not with lip service, then with money.

 

[Hapsburg]

right, genocide has only ever happened to the jews. forget about what stalin did to his own people, the kurds, rwandan genocide... its all inconsequential compared to what the jews went through, i know.

1. The kurds and tutsis I get, but what Stalin did was not genocide. He wasn't trying to destroy an ethnic or religious group. He was trying to consolidate his own power. Granted, he killed far more than either genocides, but his intent was not as sinister and vile as the those big genocides.

2. I'm guessing it is the sheer number of people killed in the Holocaust that makes it more of a stark reminder of the illogical insanity of genocide. Twelve and a half million people compared to the 900,000 dead in the Rwandan Genocide, and 50,000 Kurds killed in the Anfal Campaign. That's a 1250:90:5 ratio there.

 

[Xerxes]

Hapsburg, you can reduce that ratio:
250:18:1

 

[Hapsburg]

Yeah, but 1250 seems more impacting than 250, what with it being a 4-digit number.
Besides, I'm not good at reductions. Fuckin' hate math...