Arrested for not Tipping

[milkweed]

as stated before it goes to the waitstaff waiters/waitresses.. they keep the tip and it is manditory.. and i know how the min wage is lower in other states same applies tho a high end place can pay 3$ an hour and they can make 200 an hour in tips

Prove it. Show me what mandates the waitstaff keeps the tip. It MAY be true for cal, I dont know. I think you assume again because your brother says so.

You should maybe spend some time asking people other than your bro whats up. I remember the shock to my system when I found out some places take the tips. I thought it was a fluke and began asking questions in other places. Its more common than you think.

When the waitstaff gets uncomfortable because you ask this question and quietly mumbles, we're not supposed to talk about our tips, have a clue. Its because they have to give all their tips to management at the end of their shift. Places that let the waitstaff keep their tips dont worry about customer response.

 

[superstring01]

One (of many important life lessons learned from my step-dad). First thing you do in a bar your planning on partying at. Lay down a $10 and tell the bartender to put it in his/her pocket. Then begin ordering your drinks. Tip again as needed.

Always and I do mean ALWAYS make friends with the bartender.

I loved bar-tending. I made almost as much money then, as I do now (and I tend to think that I make pretty good money). Though, I did work, like, 70 hours per week and had two jobs, drank a lot and used a lot of drugs. Being salaried has its advantages.

The places I drink now are small, have names like: "Tam O'Shanter", "Pogue Mahone", "McCarthy's" & "The Loco Leprechaun" where I know the bar tenders well enough to call them "friend". I don't want to have to shout over blaring music to chat over a pint with my friends and I hate chachi, cock-swinging infused bars.

~String

 

[superstring01]

Prove it. Show me what mandates the waitstaff keeps the tip. It MAY be true for cal, I dont know. I think you assume again because your brother says so.

You should maybe spend some time asking people other than your bro whats up. I remember the shock to my system when I found out some places take the tips. I thought it was a fluke and began asking questions in other places. Its more common than you think.

When the waitstaff gets uncomfortable because you ask this question and quietly mumbles, we're not supposed to talk about our tips, have a clue. Its because they have to give all their tips to management at the end of their shift. Places that let the waitstaff keep their tips dont worry about customer response.

I've served in Ohio, New York, Florida and Arizona and have never heard of a place that forces the wait-staff to give up tips. That's just insane, and a first sign that there's just no business working there (unless they pay a solid salary, in which case, I may be wrong).

I've worked at places where we pool our tips (usually high-end establishments) and had to tip-out various segments (bar tenders, bar backs, busers, etc). But I've never had to give up all my tips to management. Screw that!

~String

 

[sifreak21]

Prove it. Show me what mandates the waitstaff keeps the tip. It MAY be true for cal, I dont know. I think you assume again because your brother says so.

You should maybe spend some time asking people other than your bro whats up. I remember the shock to my system when I found out some places take the tips. I thought it was a fluke and began asking questions in other places. Its more common than you think.

When the waitstaff gets uncomfortable because you ask this question and quietly mumbles, we're not supposed to talk about our tips, have a clue. Its because they have to give all their tips to management at the end of their shift. Places that let the waitstaff keep their tips dont worry about customer response.

milk first Im only talking about the establishment i know the wiatstaff is keeping the tips.. your telling me im wrong and telling me to prove it? either my brother is robbing the place every day or he keeps the tips one or the other.. and alot of places in california let wiatstaff keep tips my buddys gf wiatstaff splits all the tips among themselves.. some places do take the tips and if they do thats fraud/tax evasion and they should be punished as such because i can almost gaurentee they dont add that intoto their total profit that the IRS or goverment sees

 

[milkweed]

I've served in Ohio, New York, Florida and Arizona and have never heard of a place that forces the wait-staff to give up tips. That's just insane, and a first sign that there's just no business working there (unless they pay a solid salary, in which case, I may be wrong).

I've worked at places where we pool our tips (usually high-end establishments) and had to tip-out various segments (bar tenders, bar backs, busers, etc). But I've never had to give up all my tips to management. Screw that!

~String

Pooling tips is different than what I am talking about. I am not saying its a common practice either. But it is out there and management doesnt pocket the cash, it goes into the resturant income. Well... its not supposed to be pocketed.

 

[Nasor]

The labeling of it as "gratuity" is business speak for a service charge. If you encounter this at some time in the future, I would suggest you do the tax math. You will find this [what you claim optional] fee is taxed whether you pay it or not. It taxed because a 'service has been rendered'.

It is very likely a judge will find for the restuarant in this case. The 'gratuity' was a freely given fee for service of this large party. The customers had the option to leave before ordering and I imagine, they would not have had to pay a gratuity on their drinks, for these things are usually just applied only on menu items.

I'm quite aware that certain segments of the business community like to try to use "gratuity" to refer to mandatory charges, but they're just flat-out using the word incorrectly. You can't legitimately make the argument that the customer agreed to terms if the terms aren't accurately described for them.

 

[milkweed]

milk first Im only talking about the establishment i know the wiatstaff is keeping the tips.. your telling me im wrong and telling me to prove it? either my brother is robbing the place every day or he keeps the tips one or the other.. and alot of places in california let wiatstaff keep tips my buddys gf wiatstaff splits all the tips among themselves.. some places do take the tips and if they do thats fraud/tax evasion and they should be punished as such because i can almost gaurentee they dont add that intoto their total profit that the IRS or goverment sees

You used the term mandated and I was asking you to prove that. I wasnt referring to a company policy, I was looking for a legal mandate that tips have to go to the waitstaff. Fact is I know several employers who require tips be turned in and you can lose your job if you get caught pocketing the cash.

Fact is if you dont like a company policy your free to find another job.

Its only tax evasion if the business does not claim it as a part of its income. I have no idea if they do or not.

 

[milkweed]

I'm quite aware that certain segments of the business community like to try to use "gratuity" to refer to mandatory charges, but they're just flat-out using the word incorrectly. You can't legitimately make the argument that the customer agreed to terms if the terms aren't accurately described for them.

What part of an 'x-percent gratuity Will Be Added to the bill' is inaccurate? Its a written part of the contract, the contract being the menu.

buyer beware.

 

[John99]

I'm quite aware that certain segments of the business community like to try to use "gratuity" to refer to mandatory charges, but they're just flat-out using the word incorrectly. You can't legitimately make the argument that the customer agreed to terms if the terms aren't accurately described for them.

for jobs where a person provides a service and if it is explicitly detailed then it is like anything else you agree to.

 

[Dywyddyr]

What part of an 'x-percent gratuity Will Be Added to the bill' is inaccurate? Its a written part of the contract, the contract being the menu.

No it's not a contract: in fact I've informed restaurants that have stated such on their bills that, although I'm grateful that they're considerate enough to pre-calculate the gratuity, I will make my own mind up as how much I will give as a gratuity if anything at all.

It's quite easy to read the comment as an aid to the customer.

 

[Randwolf]

I'm an over-tipper. Having been a server and bar tender for most of my early 20's I faithfully give 20-30 percent tips. Bad service might, at worst, elicit a 15% tip from me.

It's some moral code from which I cannot seem to break free.

~String

Same with me. (almost) If the service is even half-way decent, I leave 20+ %. However, I most definitely believe that I should be able to reserve the right to decide on the amount, all the way down to zero, if necessary. I do try to keep track of how much is the fault of the waiter / waitress vs the kitchen, bartender, etc., because they usually end up keeping the majority of the money, even after tip out. If it is primarily the server's issue, and the service is atrocious, I want to be able to express that by tipping nothing, if necessary. I guess this is still better than what I sometimes did in my younger years - that classic trick of turning a full glass of water upside down with a penny underneath. (This causes the service staff to have to allow that water to spill all over, just get the penny and bus the table) Juvenile, I know, but it probably did send a message...

As to trivia - the way I understand it is that there is no such thing as a "tip", "singular". I believe T.I.P.S. stands for "To Insure Prompt Service", as someone else alluded to. :shrug:

One (of many important life lessons learned from my step-dad). First thing you do in a bar your planning on partying at. Lay down a $10 and tell the bartender to put it in his/her pocket. Then begin ordering your drinks. Tip again as needed.

Always and I do mean ALWAYS make friends with the bartender.

As milkweed said, it is a good idea to "prepay" tips "to insure prompt service"...

 

[Randwolf]

”Pooling tips is different than what I am talking about. I am not saying its a common practice either."

I have noticed that this practice is very common in the southern US (where I live now), but not so much when I lived up north. Down here, I would guess that it approaches 50%, definitely more than 25%...

 

[John99]

sometimes contrcts can have: 'a mandatory 20% gratuity' written into them.

 

[Randwolf]

sometimes contrcts can have: 'a mandatory 20% gratuity' written into them.

Yes, John, but this is the point - if you notice this up front, you can tell management that you want to reserve the right to exclude this from the "contract". If management refuses, then it's up to you whether or not to continue with your "fine dining experience"...

 

[Dywyddyr]

sometimes contrcts can have: 'a mandatory 20% gratuity' written into them.

And they get exactly the same comment.
I simply point out that if they require it to be a legal contract they should at least word it correctly. The word "gratuity" implies it's an option.
And until they get it worded "correctly" (i.e. to say what THEY want it to mean) I will go by the actual meaning.
Mandatory and gratuity are mutually exclusive terms.

 

[John99]

it is an acceptable word to use. they are implying that the 20% goes to the person who provides the service and usually it is difficult to hid from the wroker who is supposed to get it.

 

[Dywyddyr]

It is not an acceptable word use: as stated the two words are mutually exclusive.
Gratuity means "Something voluntarily given..."
Mandatory means "It is required".

If it's required then it can't be voluntary.

 

[Randwolf]

implying that the 20% goes to the person

...is sometimes quite different than actual reality. You know this...

 

[Nasor]

What part of an 'x-percent gratuity Will Be Added to the bill' is inaccurate? Its a written part of the contract, the contract being the menu.

buyer beware.

A gratuity is by definition a non-obligatory payment. It seems to me that saying "A x-percent non-obligatory payment will be added to the bill," still means that you can choose to pay the extra amount or not. Sure, it's on the bill, but by calling it a "gratuity" they are explicitly indicating that it's not obligatory. If they called it almost anything else - a fee, service charge, tip, whatever - I wouldn't have a problem with it. But they always seem to use the one word that's not appropriate for what they intend to convey.

 

[John99]

there are reasons why this is done.

it cannot be binding because the price is the price. even in the op it says that it isnt really enforceable but then it is a guide. tbh, i never heard of this done for something as cheap as a restaurant. i know some services where the tip would be a feww hundred then it is usually put in a certain dollar amount. but if the service was really horrible it would take a few phone calls to the owner and really wouldnt have to be paid.