Your time upon this earth is ending...
- Thread starter Lawdog
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Lori,
Well, like I said. I'm a confirmed atheist and quite happy to be so. And I love the fact that people can believe whatever they want, as long as public policy is founded on the observable world of human nature and the principle of allowing everyone to be as free and happy as possible (minimal government in other words). Simple really.
Well, like I said. I'm a confirmed atheist and quite happy to be so. And I love the fact that people can believe whatever they want, as long as public policy is founded on the observable world of human nature and the principle of allowing everyone to be as free and happy as possible (minimal government in other words). Simple really.
You are wrong. I sincerely wanted to know, and He showed me. I am not the only one by a long shot.
I want to know as well as many others here, yet nothing has been forthcoming. Why does your god select you and not me?
I actually knew the truth about God, it might mean that I'd have to quit smoking, drinking, drugs, cussing, and sleeping around, and that would suck, because those were all of the "fun" ways that I would appease my miserable flesh.
You, like many others, have merely exchanged one vice for another. You haven't solved any problems with self-abuse, but instead have added to them. Give your head a shake and realize that lack of belief in god is not equivalent to self-abuse.
And God help me if any of those things weren't around...then I'd just cry myself to sleep.
You sound like you have a lot of problems with self-esteem. Were you sexual or physically abused as a child?
I want to know as well as many others here, yet nothing has been forthcoming. Why does your god select you and not me?
I actually knew the truth about God, it might mean that I'd have to quit smoking, drinking, drugs, cussing, and sleeping around, and that would suck, because those were all of the "fun" ways that I would appease my miserable flesh.
You, like many others, have merely exchanged one vice for another. You haven't solved any problems with self-abuse, but instead have added to them. Give your head a shake and realize that lack of belief in god is not equivalent to self-abuse.
And God help me if any of those things weren't around...then I'd just cry myself to sleep.
You sound like you have a lot of problems with self-esteem. Were you sexual or physically abused as a child?
This is my question also.
I tend to have anarchist tendencies when it comes to the laws of this world. After all, I believe that ultimately we all live under the reign of one King. I suppose I'm lucky to live in a country that was founded upon Christian principles, though losing sight of them more and more everyday. One of those principles being to follow the laws of this land. But God has me spoiled...and I see the rampant corruption and it makes me sick. *shrug* What are you gonna do? Oh, I know, vote for the lesser of two evils.
Lori,
This is quite the sticking point with us atheists. If you look at the ideologies of the founding fathers, you will find that they were mostly diests, certainly not christians. And the founding principles were based on humanism, not religion.
I tend to have anarchist tendencies when it comes to the laws of this world. After all, I believe that ultimately we all live under the reign of one King.
Again, your 'anarchist tendencies... to the laws of the world' are merely a set of problems with which you must contend. By switching to Christianity, you've been offered the opportunity to adjust it to suit your needs in such a way that they appear to vanish. That may be a good thing, especially if your 'tendenies' also appear to vanish.
But the underlying problems will remain, and what's worse, will be solidified as long as you choose to ignore them. And you'll find this easily accomplished as Chrisitanity will undoubtedly increase your ability to ignore them by demanding that reason be supplanted with doctrine. If reason leaves you in favor of dogma, the realization of those problems will not come to fruition.
Again, your 'anarchist tendencies... to the laws of the world' are merely a set of problems with which you must contend. By switching to Christianity, you've been offered the opportunity to adjust it to suit your needs in such a way that they appear to vanish. That may be a good thing, especially if your 'tendenies' also appear to vanish.
But the underlying problems will remain, and what's worse, will be solidified as long as you choose to ignore them. And you'll find this easily accomplished as Chrisitanity will undoubtedly increase your ability to ignore them by demanding that reason be supplanted with doctrine. If reason leaves you in favor of dogma, the realization of those problems will not come to fruition.
And thus the outcome still remains the same: There is no proof.
What orifice do you religious people pull these statements from? Afraid? Don't be so naive.. It's akin to me saying you're afraid of Odin and Thor and that's why you don't get proof of their existence/believe in them. Utter stupidity, plain and simple. It is the absolute pinnacle of ignorance that makes someone even consider coming out with such a statement.
(Q) said:
It's just not your time yet. I can't speak for you or God. I have no idea where you are on your path. Oh wait, yes I do...YOU ARE HERE. I just don't know what the rest of your map looks like. God does though. Everyone's is different.
My grandma met Jesus through a door to door "Jesus salesman". Which I find entirely preposterous, and yet it is definitely true for my grandma.
I want to find it preposterous because I apparently had to be in a pretty "rock bottom" kind of place before I really wanted to know the truth about God. I was at a place where I felt like my life experience had forced me to have to know the truth. Regardless of the consequence of the knowledge...of what it meant for me and my life. My desire to know overcame my fear of knowing. That's when my life changed forever. I had to be on my knees, literally and figuratively to receive God. It's a matter of humility that is often times hard to find...for me anyway.
I haven't exchanged anything. I didn't necessarily consider those things to be vices when I came to God. I wasn't interested in the rules, but in the truth. God doesn't want people to follow a bunch of rules that they don't understand, or don't want to follow, but do so out of fear. God is all about explaining why. God has never helped me make a change in my life that I didn't sincerely ask Him to help me make, and did so because it was something that I really wanted, based upon knowledge that came from life experience. I said that wrong...God makes the change, not me...but only after I ask Him to.
No, not at all, quite the contrary actually. I'm not going to say that I had a perfect life or anything...far from it. Life sucks...and it was this general sense of unfulfillment that got to me mostly. And I was just trying to keep myself distracted with all kinds of the things that this world offers to accomplish that very purpose. Partying and sleeping around like a rock star is actually very socially acceptable...especially if you're also college educated and financially independent and responsible...it's downright impressive. Right?
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superluminal said:
They used to have prayer meetings on the floor of the House of Representatives. They were christians alright. Our schools used to use the Bible as a text book. They just, like me, did not agree with the oppression of organized religion.
(Q) said:
It's not a set of problems, it's a logical reaction to what I perceive to be corruption and nonsense. It's an aversion to injustice and lies and egotism.
"Switching to Christianity"....what does that mean exactly? I don't get it. I've never been indoctrinated, just born again. The Holy Spirit teaches me and fulfills the desires of my heart through my life experience. It's never been about my will to do or not do certain things, following particular rules, exhibiting certain behaviors, or living a certain lifestyle.
What problems? lol...
He's answered the questions that I've asked of Him, not out of a book, but through my experience. Understanding changes things. My biggest problem was that I didn't know God. Now I do. Problem solved. It's reasonable.
I'm sorry but you don't. What you have is a thought, a feeling, a personally believed certainty that cannot be corroborated whatsoever, and is in actuality no more "proof" than the guy down the road who claims he hears voices of aliens in his head is proof of the existence of Klingons.
That's the way it is.
I believe I explained the concept of subjective proof vs objective proof somewhere. Lori does not claim objective proof of god. She proposes no experiments. It is a proof of the heart just as is my love for my family. I can't prove that to anyone.
If Lori claimed to have objective proof, then I would consider her irrational. Meaning that she would have an experiment in mind that would demonstrate the reality of god in the same way I can demonstrate the reality of air (you all breathe air I assume?).
If Lori claimed to have objective proof, then I would consider her irrational. Meaning that she would have an experiment in mind that would demonstrate the reality of god in the same way I can demonstrate the reality of air (you all breathe air I assume?).
Sometimes words are just a terrible way to explain things. This is why science is so persnikety with its terminology, and mostly uses math to describe things...
It's just not your time yet. I can't speak for you or God. Everyone's is different.
It is statements like that which only prove to severely discredit your argument and leave one to conclude your beliefs are but mere fantasy.
Nonetheless, there are two options to your un-answer. My time will occur before my death or my time will not occur before my death.
If it does occur, why has it not occurred yet? I am in no less want to know god than you or anyone else. Why must I wait? If a god does exist and he did in fact create me, then I have every right to know him. Yet, he goes on ignoring my pleas and instead selects you to wallow in his glory.
If it does not occur, I have wasted my entire life with reality, all the while waiting for my time to know him. Again, are we not all equal under god? Do I not have the same right to know him as you?
Perhaps then, it may occur after my death, in which I have once again wasted my entire life with reality, never having been given the knowledge of god, not being able to share that which you have been given.
And of course, after my death, when I stand before my creator, what then shall I do?
I'll be sent to the fiery bowels of hell forever to be bitten and scratched in the netheregions by snagle-toothed varmints simply because I did not know god and instead used reality as my guide through life.
You won't answer these questions as you won't answer questions as to how exactly you came to know god.
So, I ask god for his knowledge and get nothing. I ask others who claim to know god, how they came about knowing him, and again get nothing.
I was at a place ("a pretty "rock bottom" kind of place") where I felt like my life experience had forced me to have to know the truth.
The "truth" is that you have a set of problems to deal with, which is by no means any reason to believe a god exists. You have simply chosen to escape your problems, and you have chosen Christianity as the escape.
I didn't necessarily consider those things to be vices when I came to God.
That is only because you didn't realize that they were. It would also conclude you never thought of them as self-abuse issues, either. And they have all the ear-marks of an abusive childhood.
God has never helped me make a change in my life that I didn't sincerely ask Him to help me make, and did so because it was something that I really wanted, based upon knowledge that came from life experience
Or, you simply made the changes yourself. Can you actually show god had anything to do with them?
it's downright impressive. Right?
No, it's downright pathetic that you would waste your life in this manner. It's probably a result of the abusive childhood, but that is no reason to not deal with the problems and instead attempt to learn something rather than accepting the easy way out.
"Switching to Christianity"....what does that mean exactly? I don't get it. I've never been indoctrinated, just born again.
Born again = switching to Christianity. Do you get it now?
He's answered the questions that I've asked of Him, not out of a book, but through my experience. Understanding changes things. My biggest problem was that I didn't know God. Now I do. Problem solved. It's reasonable.
What experiences? How did it occur? Understanding what changes?
You spew this nonsense continually, yet cannot answer any questions in its regard.
You are little more than preaching and you know nothing of what you preach.
Tiresome and pointless.
It is statements like that which only prove to severely discredit your argument and leave one to conclude your beliefs are but mere fantasy.
Nonetheless, there are two options to your un-answer. My time will occur before my death or my time will not occur before my death.
If it does occur, why has it not occurred yet? I am in no less want to know god than you or anyone else. Why must I wait? If a god does exist and he did in fact create me, then I have every right to know him. Yet, he goes on ignoring my pleas and instead selects you to wallow in his glory.
If it does not occur, I have wasted my entire life with reality, all the while waiting for my time to know him. Again, are we not all equal under god? Do I not have the same right to know him as you?
Perhaps then, it may occur after my death, in which I have once again wasted my entire life with reality, never having been given the knowledge of god, not being able to share that which you have been given.
And of course, after my death, when I stand before my creator, what then shall I do?
I'll be sent to the fiery bowels of hell forever to be bitten and scratched in the netheregions by snagle-toothed varmints simply because I did not know god and instead used reality as my guide through life.
You won't answer these questions as you won't answer questions as to how exactly you came to know god.
So, I ask god for his knowledge and get nothing. I ask others who claim to know god, how they came about knowing him, and again get nothing.
I was at a place ("a pretty "rock bottom" kind of place") where I felt like my life experience had forced me to have to know the truth.
The "truth" is that you have a set of problems to deal with, which is by no means any reason to believe a god exists. You have simply chosen to escape your problems, and you have chosen Christianity as the escape.
I didn't necessarily consider those things to be vices when I came to God.
That is only because you didn't realize that they were. It would also conclude you never thought of them as self-abuse issues, either. And they have all the ear-marks of an abusive childhood.
God has never helped me make a change in my life that I didn't sincerely ask Him to help me make, and did so because it was something that I really wanted, based upon knowledge that came from life experience
Or, you simply made the changes yourself. Can you actually show god had anything to do with them?
it's downright impressive. Right?
No, it's downright pathetic that you would waste your life in this manner. It's probably a result of the abusive childhood, but that is no reason to not deal with the problems and instead attempt to learn something rather than accepting the easy way out.
"Switching to Christianity"....what does that mean exactly? I don't get it. I've never been indoctrinated, just born again.
Born again = switching to Christianity. Do you get it now?
He's answered the questions that I've asked of Him, not out of a book, but through my experience. Understanding changes things. My biggest problem was that I didn't know God. Now I do. Problem solved. It's reasonable.
What experiences? How did it occur? Understanding what changes?
You spew this nonsense continually, yet cannot answer any questions in its regard.
You are little more than preaching and you know nothing of what you preach.
Tiresome and pointless.
I have to agree with Snake. I was as open as I can imagine being possible (befor I was a true atheist). I wanted it so bad it was, well, hard. It didn't work.
I think that self-fulfilling wishes are very easy for many humans. And the supporting interpretation of events (signs) can be explained by this psychological wish fulfillment mechanism.
IMHO.
I think that self-fulfilling wishes are very easy for many humans. And the supporting interpretation of events (signs) can be explained by this psychological wish fulfillment mechanism.
IMHO.