Wicked thoughts

jpappl said:
Ahh, ok this I can relate to and agree



Because I have already acted upon it and have 2 kids and a wife now. LOL. But to your point. I don't act on my desires for others because of the impact it would have on my wife and kids and more to the point it is not who I am.



No physical attraction is not the only reason, but in general, yes physical appearance is what drives most men. That can change as soon as you get to know them, it could either make the desire stronger or weaken it. I am far from shallow. But I can't help looking and desiring attractive women, and the funny thing is the old saying beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

There are models I don't find attractive and there are what some would consider average that I am attracted to. It's strange, but it's certain features that create this lust. What about you, I would imagine you have your types, you those who catch your eye and draw you in ?
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i think that either you are confused as to what lust is, or you are arguing on both sides maybe. there is nothing wrong with appreciating physical beauty, but if that is your basis for sexual desire, we've agreed it's not smart, and it seems like it might not be your basis for sexual desire. lust is like putting the physical attraction and sexual desire in a vacuum and ignoring everything we are supposed to consider along with it. it seems to me that if considered all of the reasons that you may or may not have sex with someone, lust isn't an issue for you. i can look at a man, and do...many...and appreciate their body or beauty or even sexuality, and have no desire to have sex with them. why is that? because i don't have sex for the most part, so it's irrelevant to me. i would argue that if you're married or if you give a shit about something more than physical attraction when deciding about whether or not to have sex, it's clear that you agree that lust is nothing to base this decision on and if that's true, then what good is it? bottom line, you're either saying it's a good thing to fuck somebody simply because they look good to you physically or it's not.

this is the value of lust.
 
let me paraphrase what i'm hearing from you. tell me if this is correct...

"it's ok for me to want to have sex with someone that i know i shouldn't have sex with for a whole host of legitimate reasons."

is that right?

lust objectifies people. it doesn't consider the whole person, and it doesn't consider the consequences of the act. it doesn't foster true intimacy. you really think that's good?
 
Lori_7 said:
i think that either you are confused as to what lust is, or you are arguing on both sides maybe. there is nothing wrong with appreciating physical beauty, but if that is your basis for sexual desire, we've agreed it's not smart, and it seems like it might not be your basis for sexual desire. lust is like putting the physical attraction and sexual desire in a vacuum and ignoring everything we are supposed to consider along with it. it seems to me that if considered all of the reasons that you may or may not have sex with someone, lust isn't an issue for you. i can look at a man, and do...many...and appreciate their body or beauty or even sexuality, and have no desire to have sex with them. why is that? because i don't have sex for the most part, so it's irrelevant to me. i would argue that if you're married or if you give a shit about something more than physical attraction when deciding about whether or not to have sex, it's clear that you agree that lust is nothing to base this decision on and if that's true, then what good is it? bottom line, you're either saying it's a good thing to fuck somebody simply because they look good to you physically or it's not.

this is the value of lust.
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The lust and the desire is the thought without the need for the act. That is what I am posting about.

There is nothing wrong with lust and desire which is a natural uncontrollable reaction to seeing those you find attractive.

I question why we want to treat that which is natural as wrong.

My wife and I joke about it because we have come to terms with the boundaries between our relationship and our instincts. She has her wicked and lustful thoughts as well, but knows it's not appropriate to act on them.

But we don't treat them as a sign we don't care for each other.
 
jpappl said:
The lust and the desire is the thought without the need for the act. That is what I am posting about.

There is nothing wrong with lust and desire which is a natural uncontrollable reaction to seeing those you find attractive.

I question why we want to treat that which is natural as wrong.

My wife and I joke about it because we have come to terms with the boundaries between our relationship and our instincts. She has her wicked and lustful thoughts as well, but knows it's not appropriate to act on them.

But we don't treat them as a sign we don't care for each other.
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i can't relate. i myself do not react this way. i don't bother thinking about a man in a sexual way unless i actually desire to have sex with him.
 
Lori_7 said:
i can't relate. i myself do not react this way. i don't bother thinking about a man in a sexual way unless i actually desire to have sex with him.
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Well I didn't say I don't desire to have sex with them, I just know it's a thought and to act would be in my case adultery. So in other words the lust and desire ends as a thought, not an act.

But if I was single that would be different.

Also, I believe and although women are attracted to men based on looks as well, it is paramount in men where women tend to be driven by emotions much more then men.

I would imagine that women tend to develop the lustful thoughts about a man over time where a man sees the beauty and is drawn in easier.

This is generally speaking and not to each.

You say you don't think about a man sexually unless you desire to sleep with him.

But do you look ?
 
jpappl said:
Well I didn't say I don't desire to have sex with them, I just know it's a thought and to act would be in my case adultery. So in other words the lust and desire ends as a thought, not an act.

But if I was single that would be different.

Also, I believe and although women are attracted to men based on looks as well, it is paramount in men where women tend to be driven by emotions much more then men.

I would imagine that women tend to develop the lustful thoughts about a man over time where a man sees the beauty and is drawn in easier.

This is generally speaking and not to each.

You say you don't think about a man sexually unless you desire to sleep with him.

But do you look ?
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well yeah, i interact with men every day. i also appreciate the beauty and talents of many men, and i can find a man attractive, even sexy, but still not want to have sex with him. and if you don't want to have sex with someone, then why think about it?
 
what if you have a smokin' hot sister?

did you read post #142?
 
well yeah, i interact with men every day. i also appreciate the beauty and talents of many men, and i can find a man attractive, even sexy, but still not want to have sex with him. and if you don't want to have sex with someone, then why think about it?
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Well, if you think they are sexy than your are engaging those lustfull thoughts. That is all I am saying. We can do this, it is ok, there is nothing wrong with it. But to some these thoughts are wrong and sinful.

Those thoughts might come back in an erotic dream however. If you dream about having sex with them is that also wrong.

what if you have a smokin' hot sister?

did you read post #142?
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LOL, I did but I didn't think that my sister was part of it. Fortunately, I don't live in the south.

But it reminds me of a funny scene in a movie. Joe Dirt. Where he has sex with this hussy, then he thinks or finds out she may be his sister. So he stops. They then find out she is not his sister so they go back in the bedroom but now he has a problem getting an erection.

She says, would it help if I went back to being your sister.

It did, she starts yelling. I'm your sister, I'm your sister. Nasty but very funny at the same time.
 
jpappl said:
Well, if you think they are sexy than your are engaging those lustfull thoughts. That is all I am saying. We can do this, it is ok, there is nothing wrong with it. But to some these thoughts are wrong and sinful.

Those thoughts might come back in an erotic dream however. If you dream about having sex with them is that also wrong.



LOL, I did but I didn't think that my sister was part of it. Fortunately, I don't live in the south.

But it reminds me of a funny scene in a movie. Joe Dirt. Where he has sex with this hussy, then he thinks or finds out she may be his sister. So he stops. They then find out she is not his sister so they go back in the bedroom but now he has a problem getting an erection.

She says, would it help if I went back to being your sister.

It did, she starts yelling. I'm your sister, I'm your sister. Nasty but very funny at the same time.
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so what you're saying is that it's ok to have sex with your sister if you live in a particular part of the country? that's an interesting philosophy. the point is that if you wouldn't think of having sex with your sister, then why would you think of having sex with anyone else that wouldn't be appropriate? if it's wrong to do, then it's wrong to think about. if it's wrong in action then it's wrong in your head. why entertain thoughts of doing anything that you think is wrong or hurtful? do you think about killing people too? molesting children or abusing animals? how do you feel about the contemplations of a pedifile or a murder? why would you want to think about doing something that would hurt your wife, your kids, and yourself if you were to actually do it? what's a marriage to you, some obligation? some reluctant commitment because you have kids and some piece of paper? it doesn't make sense. i can certainly, and do, think that people are attractive and even sexy without entertaining the thought of having sex with them or wanting to have sex with them. then there's the idea of why you would want to. like i said, lust doesn't achieve a real and whole intimacy, nor does it take a whole person into consideration. i guess the sister card didn't work, so i'll pull out the daughter card. do you have a daughter? well, if you do, or if you did, would you want some man to value her, and want to fuck her, just because she was good looking? would you want a man to even look at her with those thoughts or intentions? like you admitted, if you weren't married, things would be different. you think it's ok for people to see each other, and if not restrained by circumstance, treat each other like pieces of meat who's only value is cheap sexual gratification? listen mister, i am someone's daughter, and i know damn well what it feels like to be treated that way by men. when i was young, i'll never forget how horrified i was to find that men can be so shallow and abusive. here in all my naivety, i expected to be valued as a whole person and for men to actually want to get to know me and what i'm about. to value my intellect, my heart, and to care about me as a person. HORRIFIED, and i'm not the only little girl who's felt that way. and we keep it inside. we were wrong. whatever guys want. shit, with society nowadays, girls probably lose the dream before they even get out of elementary school. every girl is somebody's daughter. and i think it's quite amusing that you want to talk to me about what is "natural". so tell me what is natural about birth control? what is natural about abortion for god's sake? it seems you might choose to appreciate only certain things in nature that serve your purpose and choose to ignore the rest. you know, kind of like some religious people do with scripture. you want to use the "i'm a guy" free pass to justify doing something stupid and hurtful. well don't. i'm not buying it. maybe women are just more evolved. maybe they care more. maybe they can have babies, and you guys just have to hit the road. i know many men who are evolved, and care, and don't desire to treat other people like objects for their gratification. your mentality (or lack thereof) and beliefs dictate your desires, and a lustful desire in so many ways, does not benefit a greater good for yourself, your object, or for our society as a whole. i see a majority of people who are not interested to stand for what's right. well i am because i give a shit, and it's not some rule i follow or some reluctant obligation that i have to fight. i truly want what is good and what is best for all of us. the path is narrow. and i believe that my life and my intentions are important, and that they mean something. i'm on the path and because of it, i will help change this world. and then people won't feel used and they won't feel worthless and unfulfilled, they'll be valued and appreciated for all of who they are, and they won't suffer, and no children will be unwanted, and people will achieve true and whole intimacy through honesty and pure intentions.
 
so what you're saying is that it's ok to have sex with your sister if you live in a particular part of the country?
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Ah, no it was a joke.

if it's wrong to do, then it's wrong to think about. if it's wrong in action then it's wrong in your head. why entertain thoughts of doing anything that you think is wrong or hurtful? do you think about killing people too? molesting children or abusing animals?
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So you are equating having lustfull thoughts the same as having thoughts about murdering someone, having sex with children or abusing animals. That is way off topic and has nothing to do with sexual desire for another woman or man.

what's a marriage to you, some obligation? some reluctant commitment because you have kids and some piece of paper? it doesn't make sense.
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Well even with all my evilness and sinfull thoughts I have manage to be married for 15 years. Something that the self proclaimed religious and pure I know have failed to do, multiple times over. This is my one and only marriage. Never cheated on my wife except in my mind and never plan to. But I know and understand who I am and know I will continue to have lustfull thoughts about others.

so i'll pull out the daughter card. do you have a daughter? well, if you do, or if you did, would you want some man to value her, and want to fuck her, just because she was good looking? would you want a man to even look at her with those thoughts or intentions?
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I do and they will. I can't control what others think about my daughter. I will tell you this, I want her to be happy, I am not asking her to live a certain way. If she and another man or woman for that matter want to have a purely sexual relationship and she is happy with that I'm ok. If on the other hand they are abusing her physically then there is no place on earth they will be able to hide from me.

like you admitted, if you weren't married, things would be different.
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yes because I would be single and could date again. That's all.

listen mister, i am someone's daughter, and i know damn well what it feels like to be treated that way by men. when i was young, i'll never forget how horrified i was to find that men can be so shallow and abusive. here in all my naivety, i expected to be valued as a whole person and for men to actually want to get to know me and what i'm about. to value my intellect, my heart, and to care about me as a person. HORRIFIED, and i'm not the only little girl who's felt that way. and we keep it inside. we were wrong.
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I can't speak for your experience, and I don't expect you to explain it further unless you want to. But men and women are different, it's not right or wrong it's just the way it is, it's the reality.

How men think and why is not the same as abusing someone. If your in a relationship that isn't working becuase you don't feel the other person is treating you as you want to be treated then leave, if they are abusing you, you must leave. One relationship doesn't make all men.

i think it's quite amusing that you want to talk to me about what is "natural". so tell me what is natural about birth control? what is natural about abortion for god's sake?
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Neither of those are natural but they have nothing to do with lustfull thoughts. On a side note, if people were to use birth control properly and consistently, abortions would be very rare.

i know many men who are evolved, and care, and don't desire to treat other people like objects for their gratification
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Exactly, but like me, who has worked with women for 20+ years and have been able to behave myself and carry myself as a gentlemen who doesn't treat women as objects in life, still has lustfull thoughts about women I am attracted to. It is not an either or. You are making an assumption that these men you speak of do not have these thoughts, maybe of you.

Why do you think men and women ask each other out ? Do you or do they get to fully know each other in depth before you ask or are asked out. ?

What is the initial thing that drives that ?

Physical and/or emotional attraction of some combination. Then you find out what they are really all about, not the other way around. It has been that way forever.

see a majority of people who are not interested to stand for what's right. well i am because i give a shit, and it's not some rule i follow or some reluctant obligation that i have to fight. i truly want what is good and what is best for all of us. the path is narrow. and i believe that my life and my intentions are important, and that they mean something. i'm on the path and because of it, i will help change this world. and then people won't feel used and they won't feel worthless and unfulfilled, they'll be valued and appreciated for all of who they are, and they won't suffer, and no children will be unwanted, and people will achieve true and whole intimacy through honesty and pure intentions.
Click to expand...

So you think because I admit to having desires and lustful thoughts about women I am attracted to that I don't want to see the end of the suffering. That I am somehow not human even as I admit that I am. That I don't care about children in poverty and children who are unwanted. You don't know me or my history to claim this and if you knew me well you would not make the assumption.

I applaud any effort you offer society to help alleviate these issues.

But asking for the lustfull thoughts in men and in women is like asking women to stop wanted to have babies. It's too much to ask, it is fighting our most powerfull instincts.

In fact, it is wrong to try and end it because it would mean the end of humans.
 
By the way Lori.

I appreciate and support much of your idealism. Our discussion doesn't have to be confrontational like many are on here.

I am not trying to be.
 
jpappl said:
By the way Lori.

I appreciate and support much of your idealism. Our discussion doesn't have to be confrontational like many are on here.

I am not trying to be.
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That is very kind of you to say, as I feel convicted of this very thing here and it seems I did rant a bit. I think you must have hit a G spot.
 
Lori_7 said:
That is very kind of you to say, as I feel convicted of this very thing here and it seems I did rant a bit. I think you must have hit a G spot.
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G spot woo hoo, LOL, that makes me happy.

Being serious, I do appreciate those who are conscientous about what is going on in the world and want to see a brighter future.

It seems that no matter how rich we get, too many are lost along the way and forgotten.

I have no problem with someone who is passionate about the way they feel, it's a good way to be.

There is nothing wrong with trying to make things better.
 
jpappl said:
Ah, no it was a joke.
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Ok so if you wouldn't see fit to have sexual thoughts about your sis because its inappropriate then how is having those same thoughts about another inappropriate mate any different?

So you are equating having lustfull thoughts the same as having thoughts about murdering someone, having sex with children or abusing animals. That is way off topic and has nothing to do with sexual desire for another woman or man.
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Yes it does if that sexual desire and what its based on is hurtful and incorrect. I don't buy into the arbitrary values that people assign to various wrongdoings. First because they are self serving. Second because I don't think we ever see the far reaching cumulative consequence of any particular action in relevance. And third because the bottom line is that in order for a perfect existence to occur and eternal life achieved all wrongdoings must be erradicated. The wages of all sin is death, not just the overtly violent ones.

Well even with all my evilness and sinfull thoughts I have manage to be married for 15 years. Something that the self proclaimed religious and pure I know have failed to do, multiple times over. This is my one and only marriage. Never cheated on my wife except in my mind and never plan to. But I know and understand who I am and know I will continue to have lustfull thoughts about others.
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I commend you on your marriage but again you are admitting that you enjoy entertaining the thought of doing something hurtful. Why? I also believe that thoughts manifest. That they have energy. And while they don't always manifest in some overt and expected fashion they do in other ways. What would be a better use for your thoughts? Surely fantasizing about having cheap sex for inappropriate reasons is a waste of time and energy at best. At worse you may be neglecting to think about very productive and positive things. I think that your thoughts permeate and shape you and those around you. I think in one way or another they affect everyone in the world.


I do and they will. I can't control what others think about my daughter. I will tell you this, I want her to be happy, I am not asking her to live a certain way. If she and another man or woman for that matter want to have a purely sexual relationship and she is happy with that I'm ok. If on the other hand they are abusing her physically then there is no place on earth they will be able to hide from me.
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Emotional abuse and loss of self esteem can be much worse than physical abuse. Everyone wants love and to be valued as a whole person and exactly who they are whether they still believe that's possible or not. We all start out expecting that as little babies but its not long before its beaten out of us. And I'm not talking about what you allow your daughter to do but want for her. You want what is best? You want her to be happy? Did you let her eat candy for dinner? Happiness is fickle and overrated. Peace and security in a sense of self worth is not.

yes because I would be single and could date again. That's all.
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If you were single you would want to have sex with the wrong people or for the wrong reasons?

I can't speak for your experience, and I don't expect you to explain it further unless you want to. But men and women are different, it's not right or wrong it's just the way it is, it's the reality.

How men think and why is not the same as abusing someone. If your in a relationship that isn't working becuase you don't feel the other person is treating you as you want to be treated then leave, if they are abusing you, you must leave. One relationship doesn't make all men.
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I love the fact that men and women are different but that is not an excuse for either of us to want to do something wrong or hurtful. Womeb have to go through childbirth men have to control their dick. Seems fair. I think that having sex with someone just because of the way they look, valuing them for only that aspect of them is abusive.

Neither of those are natural but they have nothing to do with lustfull thoughts. On a side note, if people were to use birth control properly and consistently, abortions would be very rare.
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If you conceived a child with everyone you had lustful thoughts about or lust based sex with like a pavlov dog you would stop having those thoughts.

Exactly, but like me, who has worked with women for 20+ years and have been able to behave myself and carry myself as a gentlemen who doesn't treat women as objects in life, still has lustfull thoughts about women I am attracted to. It is not an either or. You are making an assumption that these men you speak of do not have these thoughts, maybe of you.
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True, but the thoughts are still inappropriate and in no way beneficial.
Why do you think men and women ask each other out ? Do you or do they get to fully know each other in depth before you ask or are asked out. ?

What is the initial thing that drives that ?

Physical and/or emotional attraction of some combination. Then you find out what they are really all about, not the other way around. It has been that way forever.
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There's nothing wrong with finding someone attractive for a host of good reasons but that doesn't mean those are good reasons to have sex with them. And let me tell you that trying to express yourself to someone who is thinking of nothing except how they're going to get you in bed is a drag. That's not sharing, that's not fostering intimacy, and its often times not honest.

So you think because I admit to having desires and lustful thoughts about women I am attracted to that I don't want to see the end of the suffering. That I am somehow not human even as I admit that I am. That I don't care about children in poverty and children who are unwanted. You don't know me or my history to claim this and if you knew me well you would not make the assumption.

I applaud any effort you offer society to help alleviate these issues.

But asking for the lustfull thoughts in men and in women is like asking women to stop wanted to have babies. It's too much to ask, it is fighting our most powerfull instincts.

In fact, it is wrong to try and end it because it would mean the end of humans.
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I think our most powerful instinct is true love.
 
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Sex isn't the strongest impulse. Sleeping is, after being deprived of it. So is hunger and thirst. People will *kill* to do these things. But only freaks kill to have sex.
 
Lori_7 said:
so what you're saying is that it's ok to have sex with your sister if you live in a particular part of the country? that's an interesting philosophy. the point is that if you wouldn't think of having sex with your sister, then why would you think of having sex with anyone else that wouldn't be appropriate? if it's wrong to do, then it's wrong to think about. if it's wrong in action then it's wrong in your head. why entertain thoughts of doing anything that you think is wrong or hurtful? do you think about killing people too? molesting children or abusing animals? how do you feel about the contemplations of a pedifile or a murder? why would you want to think about doing something that would hurt your wife, your kids, and yourself if you were to actually do it? what's a marriage to you, some obligation? some reluctant commitment because you have kids and some piece of paper? it doesn't make sense. i can certainly, and do, think that people are attractive and even sexy without entertaining the thought of having sex with them or wanting to have sex with them. then there's the idea of why you would want to. like i said, lust doesn't achieve a real and whole intimacy, nor does it take a whole person into consideration. i guess the sister card didn't work, so i'll pull out the daughter card. do you have a daughter? well, if you do, or if you did, would you want some man to value her, and want to fuck her, just because she was good looking? would you want a man to even look at her with those thoughts or intentions? like you admitted, if you weren't married, things would be different. you think it's ok for people to see each other, and if not restrained by circumstance, treat each other like pieces of meat who's only value is cheap sexual gratification? listen mister, i am someone's daughter, and i know damn well what it feels like to be treated that way by men. when i was young, i'll never forget how horrified i was to find that men can be so shallow and abusive. here in all my naivety, i expected to be valued as a whole person and for men to actually want to get to know me and what i'm about. to value my intellect, my heart, and to care about me as a person. HORRIFIED, and i'm not the only little girl who's felt that way. and we keep it inside. we were wrong. whatever guys want. shit, with society nowadays, girls probably lose the dream before they even get out of elementary school. every girl is somebody's daughter. and i think it's quite amusing that you want to talk to me about what is "natural". so tell me what is natural about birth control? what is natural about abortion for god's sake? it seems you might choose to appreciate only certain things in nature that serve your purpose and choose to ignore the rest. you know, kind of like some religious people do with scripture. you want to use the "i'm a guy" free pass to justify doing something stupid and hurtful. well don't. i'm not buying it. maybe women are just more evolved. maybe they care more. maybe they can have babies, and you guys just have to hit the road. i know many men who are evolved, and care, and don't desire to treat other people like objects for their gratification. your mentality (or lack thereof) and beliefs dictate your desires, and a lustful desire in so many ways, does not benefit a greater good for yourself, your object, or for our society as a whole. i see a majority of people who are not interested to stand for what's right. well i am because i give a shit, and it's not some rule i follow or some reluctant obligation that i have to fight. i truly want what is good and what is best for all of us. the path is narrow. and i believe that my life and my intentions are important, and that they mean something. i'm on the path and because of it, i will help change this world. and then people won't feel used and they won't feel worthless and unfulfilled, they'll be valued and appreciated for all of who they are, and they won't suffer, and no children will be unwanted, and people will achieve true and whole intimacy through honesty and pure intentions.
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nice paragraph :confused:
 
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