Why do you love God?

[Enmos]

Emnos
“
I see them but i don't see your point


I thought I made it very clear at the onset that there is a specific etymological usage of the word I was working with(and I even conceded the etymological usage you were going with) ... I mean to come midway with "different strokes for different folks" philosophy isn't really helpful
“
ordinarily love doesn't experience that difficulty in these cases ... I mean if a person can't rattle off at least a dozen things that they love about something it tend to raise doubts

you also have the option of invalidating it through analysis or example.

actually it was a response to your claim of loving nature.
You say you love nature
I say I love a chair
so what do you think?
How about if someone says they love air?

“
It means that if something is simply a means to your end (and cannot be indicated separate from your existence) you have no scope for entering into a relationship with it


its certainly difficult in regards to nature ... that's why I ask
“

it's not clear how either choice ties into love

sure
if the living entity didn't have minute independence there would be absolutely no question of loving god

well feel free to qualify it.
I mean if you can't see anything of Gumpy Gazza the guitarist I can fill you in on a few things

if a chair or a nuclear reactor isn't natural what is it?
supernatural?
You could perhaps argue that a nuclear reactor is artificial arrangement, but it doesn't house anything that isn't natural.
A nuclear reactor is not something "nature" (or god) cannot deal with, what to speak of a chair.
Is a stone that can be utilized as a chair somehow more lovable than a chair that is made from slapping a few bits of wood together? Or alternatively, is there something about a stone chair that qualifies it for love in obvious ways that can't be applied to a wooden chair?

well that's a bit of a no-brainer coming from an atheist



in regards to nature and its connection to god?
I would probably take the default position like everyone else and simply view nature in terms that is agreeable to my lifestyle (whether that be in the form of sustainable agriculture or the production of nuclear bombs)


love for what?
nature or just love in general?

“
no
I am saying no one can love nature, just like in the sense that no one can love a dress (they might like the person wearing it however, but since an atheist has an official stance that there is no person behind nature, that possibility doesn't arise) ... they may like the dress however, and be able to come up with quite a few good points on how they could utilize it... or even how their way to utilize it is unique and more sensitive than any other person's plans to utilize it ..... IOW the clear distinction is that the theist has the option of viewing the world as being possessed by someone else - namely god - whereas others simply have views on how they can get their greasy or not quite so greasy paws on it

if you mean is it relatively clear how to cultivate a loving relationship with someone, then yes

I can't think of anything that could give the desired result. Maybe try and reason with them after the act to fan any ambers of remorse ... but its not like we are omnipotent beings that can establish any result from any circumstance. That is god's prerogative, not ours.

sure
that's understandable

just like you may be in ignorance of gumpy gazza, but just let me tell you a thing or two about him ....


“
given that I have clearly stated several times now that the problem is not that "I don't love nature" (which is a value statement) but rather you haven't presented a basis for making value statements (which would allow for the terms of either love/or don't love), why do you think these categories are accurate?
You have yet to provide some sort of run down on nature that isn't simply an elaboration on how wonderful it is that it houses the human phenomena

I'm getting a bit tired of this.
Basically: I am saying that I love nature, and you are replying that it isn't love because I don't believe in God.
And yes you are saying that, because you said YOU can love nature because you can relate it to God (which you love, ironically).
You said its only liking for me.

I love nature, you say it's impossible.
You love God, I say it's impossible.

Done.

P.S.
To me, some of the statements in you post are pretty idiotic (no offense). But I will leave it at this.

 

[Enmos]

We can give something back in the sense that we respect our environment, for example, but Nature cannot be aware of this. This doesn't matter a damn.

The point I am making is that, unlike the guy with the attention-seeking avatar, I do not regard love as being conditional on service, reciprocity or anything of the kind. Love is an emotion and it is natural to want to take care of that which we love. There are no conditions.

Thanks Myles, I agree

 

[Sciencelovah]

To all theists:

Why do you love God?
Why should I (or anyone) love God?

I am a theist, but I don't love God, nor that I think we should.
The concept of human loves God is absurd. We aren't on the same level.

 

[davewhite04]

So you love God because you have to.

Love is by nature voluntarily, so that can't be a valid reason.

"Love is by nature voluntarily, so that can't be a valid reason."

Hmmm love is not voluntary, not true love.

 

[NDS]

but it does indicate that we have previous karma, even if we are currently a 2 year old child or whetever.

Karma and free will cancel each other out. You can't believe in both. I know you believe in free will, so you can't also claim to believe in karma.

If I decide to torture someone right now, it's my choice to, not the person being tortured.

Also, even there was karma, how do you know it is perfect?

For example, tsunamis cause hundreds of thousands to die. How are you so sure karma picked all the exactly right people? Impossible.

 

[NDS]

"Love is by nature voluntarily, so that can't be a valid reason."

Hmmm love is not voluntary, not true love.

Actually, it has to be voluntary. If God tortured you on a daily basis, and you knew it was him doing it, would you love him?

No, you wouldn't. So you must love for a REASON or for multiple reasons.

So, davewhite, what are those reasons that you love God? (don't worry, I'm not expecting an answer)

 

[Sciencelovah]

Love is preferential concept. Some people love their parent, some other hate them
(because they aren't good parents, for example). You love good nature, you hate
bad nature. You love beautiful or handsome or kind people, you don't love terrible
people. Love shows preference. To love God is an absurd concept, especially if
you believe there is only one God.

I believe there is only one God, and hence, I can't compare him/her/it with any other
God. To love or not to love God then irrelevant.

 

[NDS]

I agree inzomnia, we only love things if they are appealing.

If something causes us unneccessary suffering, we tend not to love that thing.

 

[davewhite04]

Actually, it has to be voluntary. If God tortured you on a daily basis, and you knew it was him doing it, would you love him?

No, you wouldn't. So you must love for a REASON or for multiple reasons.

Forget God for a second.

I love my brother, mother and father because I do. I don't think about it.

I love my daughter because I just do.

I didn't sit down and think hmmm should I love them?

Have you not experienced that?

As far as God goes, that is another story.

 

[Sciencelovah]

I agree inzomnia, we only love things if they are appealing.

If something causes us unneccessary suffering, we tend not to love that thing.

I think so. God uses fear to control, how can I love God? :shrug: But as I do believe in God,
I have no option but being obedient (to my best ability).

 

[Sciencelovah]

Forget God for a second.

I love my brother, mother and father because I do. I don't think about it.

I love my daughter because I just do.

I didn't sit down and think hmmm should I love them?

Have you not experienced that?

As far as God goes, that is another story.

What if your father/mother molested you when you were a child? Would you still love them?

 

[NDS]

Same thing applies dave.

If your parents or siblings raped/molested you, would you still love them? (like inzomnia mentioned above)

If your parents threw you out of the house at age 10 and said, "Good Luck" and gave you no food would you still love them?

I know I wouldn't.

You love your parents because they have given you a decent life, and have tried their best to raise you, educate you, and support you. That's why I love my parents.

The point still stands dave. You must have a reason to love or not love someone or something. Love is voluntary, or preferential. That is the nature of love.

 

[davewhite04]

Same thing applies dave.

If your parents or siblings raped/molested you, would you still love them?

If your parents threw you out of the house at age 10 and said, "Good Luck" and gave you no food would you still love them?

I know I wouldn't.

You love your parents because they have given you a decent life, and have tried their best to raise you, educate you, and support you. That's why I love my parents.

Good point.

Considering I have been brought up in a good environment I suppose any answer I give is pure guesswork.

But I'd guess I would love them all no matter what they did.

 

[davewhite04]

Maybe love is actually relative too.

 

[NDS]

I would be hard pressed to say I would love my father/mother if one of them raped me. In fact, I would probably hate them. Fortunately for me, I also had good parents who cared about me and supported me, which is why I love them.

But you also make a good point, in that how can we really know if "love" exists at all, relatively speaking. I'm not sure either. All I can go on is observations of the world around me and feelings.

 

[davewhite04]

But you also make a good point, in that how can we really know if "love" exists at all, relatively speaking. I'm not sure either. All I can go on is observations of the world around me and feelings.

Oh I know that love exists, I just wonder if some people have more brains than heart and vice versa.

 

[NDS]

I am a theist, but I don't love God, nor that I think we should.
The concept of human loves God is absurd. We aren't on the same level.

This is probably the best response in this whole thread so far. How can I love something I don't know, understand, or talk with?

Can a bug ever love me? No, because we aren't on the same level.

 

[NDS]

Oh I know that love exists, I just wonder if some people have more brains than heart and vice versa.

Well, I look at it this way. The color purple, or the way that we see the color purple and identify it, doesn't really exist. Only our perception of it exists. Same thing with time, love, etc.

So we could also ask:

Does the color purple exist?
Does time exist?

I guess, objectively it doesn't. But subjectively it does. And that does counr for something.

 

[davewhite04]

NDS:

I Was an agnostic for many years until I had an encounter with an invisible (spiritual being?) that emanated love that was around 10x more powerful than any the love I had experienced before and since. I asked questions about God and got answers, I became a Christian that day.

Maybe I'm just mad

 

[NDS]

Interesting, but I've never personally experienced such an encounter. I know of others who have talked about similar encounters.

Just out of curiosity, why did you end up becoming specifically a Christian? You could have had the experience and became a Hindu, Muslim, etc. Why Christianity? And if you were born and raised in India and had the same experience, would you have become a Hindu?

Also, what answers did you get about God? I'll competely understand if you don't want to answer in a public forum, but I'd appreciate a PM as well. Thanks. Interesting stuff.