where is god?

Re: There is nothing original about sin

Originally posted by Jenyar
To quote Ayn Rand herself: "Reality exists as an objective absolute ?facts are facts independent of man’s feelings, wishes, hopes or fears." - the ethics of Ayn Rand.

Whether you agree that God is a reality is not the question right now, but whether He could be described as benevolent if (original) sin is a reality.

Sin is the separation between God and man. This separation is illustrated by Adam and Eve's choice not to heed God's warning about the temptation of evil, and their subsequent exile from life with God. All their children - the human race - are born into this exile, a "world without God".

Sin is not just "something you did wrong". It is a state of separation that is characterized by all kinds of moral and legal transgressions. The cleanest, purest, most innocent baby is born into this world - it is only its pure nature as image of God that still connects it to God's world and God's life. No wonder the words for "soul" and "divine breath" that are used to describe consciousness of God means simply "to be alive".

If God did not present a way where we could be reconciled with Him in this world, the only salvation would have been to keep ourselves holy (separate from sin) - as those before Christ had no choice but to try. But Christ was also born into this exile, separating himself from God willingly. He was not born of a descendent of Adam, so He did not share a legacy of sin; He knew God as he knew himself, but did not strive to be "God" but to be completely human in the true sense of the word: as God's image. When we recognize that in Him we recognize God, and we recognize his Salvation, which means restoring the possibility of a relationship with Him and forgiving us from our part in sin, which is the "sting" of death - the opposite of life with God.

We are created in God's image - the question is 1) do we recognize it and, 2) do we live like we do?
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This asks for too much because mankind learn from mistakes to improve.
 
The truth is...

You may think we learn from mistakes, it has been two thousand years, and longer perhaps.

We as a human race are still unzivilized, we have not learned that war is amoral, that the state, does not hold power over us, though it easily wages war upon its "suppose enemies" in the name of "protection" but it is actually conquest.

Authorities use any means for gaging war, religious doctrine and rhetoric are given to justify war, God is with us, or Allah is our savior, bla,bla, Yada,yada,

Finally no we've not learned from our mistakes Yin, we are still falling for them by those who we let rule over us!!

Personally we seem to think we learn from our mistakes.

Well some of us do, actually however when it comes to a single man looking for a mate, one tends to make the same mistakes over, and over again. The fun part is trying over and over again, untill one finds a suitable mate, or gets an STD. Sexually Transmited Desease!.

LOL.

Godless.
 
Originally posted by Laser Eyes
God is not a person like us. God is a spirit, invisible to us. He has great power and energy,
Every little thing in the universe is under God's control,
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so god is responsible for all the evil that people do then?
he is controling all,yes?
he also kills inocent litle babies,obviously.
 
Re: The truth is...

Originally posted by Godless
You may think we learn from mistakes, it has been two thousand years, and longer perhaps.

We as a human race are still unzivilized, we have not learned that war is amoral, that the state, does not hold power over us, though it easily wages war upon its "suppose enemies" in the name of "protection" but it is actually conquest.
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Too long, isn't it?
But you can hardly blame the war as long as the world is not sitting in justice.

Authorities use any means for gaging war, religious doctrine and rhetoric are given to justify war, God is with us, or Allah is our savior, bla,bla, Yada,yada,
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So what is your suggestion? hide somewhere?

Finally no we've not learned from our mistakes Yin, we are still falling for them by those who we let rule over us!!
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So we still have to fight for justice.
Personally we seem to think we learn from our mistakes.
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Wish most of us did. The more learn, the better.
Well some of us do, actually however when it comes to a single man looking for a mate, one tends to make the same mistakes over, and over again. The fun part is trying over and over again, untill one finds a suitable mate, or gets an STD. Sexually Transmited Desease!.

LOL.

Godless.
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Life is not risk free, you learn to make it or fail somewhere.
 
Yin....

Sounds too exagerated?

Wait a minute, is it not believing in something which there is no way to prove it's existence or not.

Exagerated?
 
I said reading history is a better way to understand god than reading an old book.
A wrongly advertised assumption does not erase its validity.
 
Yin

By studying history is how I became an atheist!!

You are quite correct, by reading history, one finds the attrocities done to men by religious zelalots, the inquisition, burning of witches, religious wars etc...

Godless.
 
Godl
Wrongs are in all sorts of names, not only religions. But religion played a bitter role in history, even dangerous role. But people's spirit needs guidence, restoration of belief is better than abandoning.
 
Why?

(But people's spirit needs guidence, restoration of belief is better than abandoning.)

Why do you think people need quidance?. Who is to lead them, same people who caused the attrocities? Belief in relegious values do not quide people, only those who earn a living by preaching to gullible people think that these individuals are actually quiding them!.

They are not!, only weak minded mentalities need quidance for survival!. The others feed themselves on these needs, they provide a service for the qullible, they earn their living by keeping false notions of god, heaven, yada-yada, bla,bla.

There are two tipes of people in the world yin.

1:Those who live by producing values.

2:Those who live by usurping the value producers.

Strangely enough, leaders such as preachers, politicians, and those whom we recognize as authorities, the majority of them live by usurping values from the producers!.

So gullible people, the weak minded individuals who think they can't live without religious (quidance) are the only ones who actually benefit from these usurpers. But the benefit, comes at a great price!!.

Godless
 
Re: Why?

Originally posted by Godless
[BWhy do you think people need quidance?. Who is to lead them, same people who caused the attrocities? Belief in relegious values do not quide people, [/B]
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call it a map if you don't like the word guidance.
only those who earn a living by preaching to gullible people think that these individuals are actually quiding them!.
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this is too extreme, certainly a child need some advice. But to take advantage of that need is not mora.

They are not!, only weak minded mentalities need quidance for survival!. The others feed themselves on these needs, they provide a service for the qullible, they earn their living by keeping false notions of god, heaven, yada-yada, bla,bla.
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there is a posibility that god is mis-represented by some one and we need find a true one.

There are two tipes of people in the world yin.

1:Those who live by producing values.

2:Those who live by usurping the value producers.

Strangely enough, leaders such as preachers, politicians, and those whom we recognize as authorities, the majority of them live by usurping values from the producers!.

So gullible people, the weak minded individuals who think they can't live without religious (quidance) are the only ones who actually benefit from these usurpers. But the benefit, comes at a great price!!.

Godless
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I think you are a little bit self-contradictory because you call people gullible but deny that they need quidance.
 
My dear friend..

Self contradictory?

No!! what I state is that people do not need quidance, from some self proclaimed leader, auditor of the word of god!. But that there are gullible people who will buy in to this deception!.

For example my mom!.

mom, is not an atheist as I am, though she does not need anyone to lead her on reading the scriptures, or show her to pray, mom is a deist. She does not believe in the organized religious congreagations, or believe in priests.

Children get their guidance from parents. Haven't you heard? lately the Catholics have been found guilty of child molestation, this has been gone on for centuries!!!!

What kind of guidance is that?.


Godless.
 
Re: Where is God?

When I was a little girl.. long ago... when my parents made me take religious studies, I was told that God was everywhere and all around and all through us. So I asked the nun who taught us in that class, that if that was the case, when I farted, did I fart God? When I flushed the toilet, was I flushing God? She never replied:(. I thought it was a valid question. Sigh... one of the reasons my parents were told I should be taken out of religious classes...:confused:


:eek:
 
Re: My dear friend..

Originally posted by Godless
Self contradictory?

No!! what I state is that people do not need quidance, from some self proclaimed leader, auditor of the word of god!. But that there are gullible people who will buy in to this deception!.

For example my mom!.

mom, is not an atheist as I am, though she does not need anyone to lead her on reading the scriptures, or show her to pray, mom is a deist. She does not believe in the organized religious congreagations, or believe in priests.

Children get their guidance from parents. Haven't you heard? lately the Catholics have been found guilty of child molestation, this has been gone on for centuries!!!!

What kind of guidance is that?.


Godless.
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Does your mother nickname herself Godless?
She does believe in god but try a unique way to find him.
 
Originally posted by Bells
Re: Where is God?

When I was a little girl.. long ago... when my parents made me take religious studies, I was told that God was everywhere and all around and all through us. So I asked the nun who taught us in that class, that if that was the case, when I farted, did I fart God? When I flushed the toilet, was I flushing God? She never replied:(. I thought it was a valid question. Sigh... one of the reasons my parents were told I should be taken out of religious classes...:confused:


:eek:
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The list can go on and on in that direction. But I think this is a good question.
That is in what way we are related to god.
Through and by some agent we don't know?
It is like to ask why the world should work in a consistant set of rules, who is responsible to make the rules valid?
We just don't know how god works his way through us.
 
Re: Re: Wrong...

Originally posted by yinyinwang
human being evolvles. maybe it is slow in your eyes.
I find much more pain than miracle in human history.
People associating miracles with god are interpreting god wrong, not god is a wrong assumption.
religion is a pointer for people's reference before they find out what is what in their exploring process. Religion is not meant to stop people's own exploring, but as a guidelines for their consideration.
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Well,you didn't quite unbderstand me,I know human being evolves,but the question is why people,even after high-tech and science development,still believe in supernatural,I think that depends on situation you're in and how hard this situation is.
 
This is a strange era in which science is known by far short of majority while the material fruits of science can be used against the spirit of science and science is not fully developed to the extent of solving all the cognition or action problems, sounds bad, it isn't?
 
Not Only!!.

Does this answer of yours Yin imply disrespect?: (Does your mother nickname herself Godless?
She does believe in god but try a unique way to find him.)

Towards me & mom, it totally evades the subject matter I was speaking of!.

Evasiveness of questions, turning around and asking question using non-sequirtus ploys, has always been the way of theists to manipulate their subjects. Yin you are doing a good job of it!!

Mainly what I was talking about, is that a strong willed person does not seek (quidance) from some authority in organized religion. God is not an authority!!, only those who speak on his name are. And (those) are people, with out a clue of the existence of, or the nature of god, their guide an ancient book, that every individual interprets differently.

Godless
 
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