It's what we call the carrot and the stick.
What if?
- Thread starter Lori_7
- Start date
It's what we call the carrot and the stick.
so far, the fact seems to be that you don't know.
It also seems to be a fact that you think everyone else has the same reservoir of knowledge as yourself.
In sanskrit this is called "atmaman jagat" or "as I think, the whole universe thinks".
it does however indicate the value of knowledge even if it runs short of full comprehension
Enmos
Valued Senior Member
What knowledge about God do you have and how did you verify it ?
you know what changed with me, was that i got to the point where i wanted to know the truth barring all consequences...whether pleasant or unpleasant, beneficial or not. i certainly wasn't looking for love or communion at the time i made that decision. i just really didn't care what it meant for me anymore, i wanted to know the truth anyway...just for the sake of knowing what it was.
I do not think everyone else has the same reservoir of knowledge as I do. You certainly don't, as is clear from your posts
And we needed to be told that?You do know that knowledge is belief supported by convincing evidence ? You are still at the belief stage unless you can show me otherwise, So, how about a bit of evidence ? Surprise us !
it's a hypothetical question, hence the use of the word "if". and btw, i know.
and before you go there trust...that i could give a rat's ass if you believe me.
it's just a question sir...a little mental exercise. assume that you could know.
comprehend or have a relationship with? i would suggest that there are a lot of things that we can experience and interact with but, don't comprehend. i hardly think we comprehend each other as human beings or ourselves entirely as of yet, or if we can...but that doesn't mean that it's not worth interacting.
Enmos
Valued Senior Member
Well, you may want to tell some other theists about that because they seem to be unaware. In fact you've said you know God personally, and now you say one can't ?
As for the hypothetical question..
If you could know Roy Wright would you want to ?
:shrug:
Who said anything about believing you ? I just said it isn't possible to know God and you seem to agree.
Assume banana's were purple. Would you eat them.. ?
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Enmos
Valued Senior Member
You said God can be known, that one can have a personal relationship with him.
as far as i understand, all you have to do is to sincerely want to. hence the question. i'm trying to encourage people to be honest with themselves about what their intentions are in regards to knowledge of him. if you don't want it then fine. admit it. but realize that your intentions make that determination.
and please, before you jump down my throat and get all defensive (anyone), know that this is what i've found to be true, based upon my own experience.
Enmos
Valued Senior Member
It is kind of circular don't you think ?
What would be the motivation for wanting to know someone you don't know ?
sure, why not? and the difference is the use of the term "know". when i say i "know" god, i mean that we've interacted, and have a relationship, much like i would have with any person. but that does not mean that i "know" or that i comprehend everything about him. i can't define him. i can't understand the nature of him entirely, but can describe him, based upon what he's shown me.
Enmos
Valued Senior Member
Ok so now what ?
to know what you are able to. to be open to knowledge. if because you can not understand or know everything about someone, do you then reject them?
where's the purple banana? where's roy at?
Enmos
Valued Senior Member
I am open to knowledge.
No, I wouldn't reject them.
Fine, I'll answer your hypothetical question..
I wouldn't mind knowing God if he existed. All he has to do is make himself known to me.
Kind of a big question but I will try and answer it in a way you might find relevant.
in short, knowing anything (anything of moderate complexity anyway)requires that one adopts the habits of persons who are already in knowledge.
If a person is not prepared to take on such association, their pursuit of knowledge faces difficulties.
Knowing god is greatly dependent on the "state of one's being." (particularly envy)
This is what distinguishes it from other fields of knowledge within empiricism.
I think I have run the analogy of knowing the president by you before - if one wants to know the president (personally), it generally requires that one acquire a "state of being" acceptable to the president (as opposed to trying to get past his 16108 and secretaries and body guards).
Just as there are many things knowable about the president in relation to finance, military and diplomacy, there are many things knowable about god that tends to illuminate one's knowledge of other co-existing things.
For instance it would be difficult how an american could know about the diplomatic, military, financial and legal status of the president without also developing knowledge on what these repercussions have on an american (and also a foreigner) and also the socio-economic geography of things american and non-american (and everything in between).
In the same way knowledge of god also puts into context a range of things like one's self, this world, other people, etc etc, and the limitations/values.
As a practical example, if one knows this about god
BG 5.29 A person in full consciousness of Me, knowing Me to be the ultimate beneficiary of all sacrifices and austerities, the Supreme Lord of all planets and demigods, and the benefactor and well-wisher of all living entities, attains peace from the pangs of material miseries.
it could be verified by their ability to refrain from sinking into misery and anger when their claim to material possession in this world is challenged by fate. If one didn't display this "state of being", their ability to know god as the ultimate controller of this world is not satisfactory (or merely theoretical).
So to recap, 3 points
- Knowledge of god is fully dependent on adopting a suitable state of being
- Adopting a suitable state of being is dependent on associating with persons who are already in knowledge
- The further one one knows about the god, the further issues of the self and environment are also known
The commonest challenge to such knowledge usually is number 2. Generally the substance of a person's reservation about god are due to the persons who represent him.
Enmos
Valued Senior Member
