To my beautiful Atheists

[spuriousmonkey]

If you know anything about the brain and psychology then you know why early learning has such a powerful influence. Thus intelligence and free thinking are NOT the defining differences between atheists and theists. It is hard for those subjected to this 'indoctrination' to seperate from it, this is a 'brain ' thing not a retard thing. We a e lucky no such brainwashing took place.

The brain is shaped physically during early life. Paths and connections are made and it is not easy to relearn things. I was just lucky that my parents didn't give a shit about their religion. They had me baptized. But we never went to church. I went to a christian elementary school, but at this point there was hardly any christian propaganda being spoonfed anymore. I did my communion but never had the faith. I did it for the presents you get and because everybody did it. That was then the second time i ever was in a church.

Had I had fanatical parents who had brainwashed me from the beginning I would have had more difficulties shaking it. A friend came from such a family. Later I still saw him go to church every week with his family. His father was a teacher btw who like to touch his female students so innocently whenever possible. Still they went to church every week. Still they are convinced in their faith. Their silly belief. A fekking book written a long time ago by some sheep fekkers.

I was quite close to a clean state of mind regarding religion. By the time religion got to me I had already learned to think for myself. I didn't need it. No analysis of any religion could warm me up. It all is just plain ridiculous. Are we superior? Yes, I think so. If you appreciate individualism and independent thought. If your ideals differ than not.

 

[Crunchy Cat]

crunchy, I have seen theists referred to as retards in other threads, so this is not necc related to you, no buttons being pushed, I just think its short sighted.

I've seen believers and non-believers alike get thrashed with insults. Thrashing is going to happen and all I can recommend is for anyone to try their best to attack concepts and not people and have thick skin when that fails.

Re My 'God' thing, there is zero point me elaborating, I will be called a liar, mad and so on and so forth. So we'll leave it at that. I am unconcerned whether anyone shares my view and so do not feel the need to set myself up for unecc. ridicule. However re my thread 'versions of reality' in Human science forum, it has occurred to me recently, that quite simply due to biology some people may experience a different reality to others with the real reality remaining unknown and not related to 'madness' merely biological differences. This may explain why some people like myself are aware of something extra and some are not. just a thought?

Of course there's a point. It's to gain visibility into your thought process, values, needs, etc. I wouldn't put too much value on what people on how people on a public forum might judge you. So my request still remains open. If you accept it then great, if you decline then it is what it is.

I think genetics might potentially affect percption of reality. It's part of the subjective condition. IMO, remembering results and using objective tools are a great way to seperate accurate perception to false percpetion (ex. audio hallucination).

 

[Theoryofrelativity]

The brain is shaped physically during early life. Paths and connections are made and it is not easy to relearn things. I was just lucky that my parents didn't give a shit about their religion. They had me baptized. But we never went to church. I went to a christian elementary school, but at this point there was hardly any christian propaganda being spoonfed anymore. I did my communion but never had the faith. I did it for the presents you get and because everybody did it. That was then the second time i ever was in a church.

Had I had fanatical parents who had brainwashed me from the beginning I would have had more difficulties shaking it. A friend came from such a family. Later I still saw him go to church every week with his family. His father was a teacher btw who like to touch his female students so innocently whenever possible. Still they went to church every week. Still they are convinced in their faith. Their silly belief. A fekking book written a long time ago by some sheep fekkers.

I was quite close to a clean state of mind regarding religion. By the time religion got to me I had already learned to think for myself. I didn't need it. No analysis of any religion could warm me up. It all is just plain ridiculous. Are we superior? Yes, I think so. If you appreciate individualism and independent thought. If your ideals differ than not.

You have confirmed here everything I said in the post that your post here was in reply to.

WE ARE (I shall say it again) Lucky that we were NOT subjected to this 'indoctrination'. You acknowledge here how hard it is to shake when it is seeded in the early years.
"Had I had fanatical parents who had brainwashed me from the beginning I would have had more difficulties shaking it."

All I am asking in recognition of your knowledge of this indoctrination process and how hard it is to shake in adulthood to stop giving theists such a hard time.
"The brain is shaped physically during early life. Paths and connections are made and it is not easy to relearn things. I was just lucky that my parents didn't give a shit about their religion."

As I said we were lucky, we were allowed freedom of thought.

This is a complete contradiction fof your earlier recognition of the way the brain treats early information:
"Are we superior? Yes, I think so."

Disappointing very

Myself I use what I know about the susceptibility of the child brain to teach them valuable principles, such as manners, respect and of course how to keep their rooms clean! God will be something they can discover for themselves if they choose to do so. There will be no indoctrination.

 

[Crunchy Cat]

DO YOU SEE THIS SPURIOUS? An atheist trying to convince THE WORLD his view is right, not evenh restricted to sciforums. Give me a sane pill someone cos you lot drive me crackers with your selective reading.

I know that would be your interpretation . Read the message again, that's not what it says.

 

[spuriousmonkey]

This is a complete contradiction fof your earlier recognition of the way the brain treats early information:
"Are we superior? Yes, I think so."

Disappointing very

Talk about selective reading.

 

[sniffy]

truth like shit happens
what is tru/th for one person may not be for another
you can be walking down the road one day and oops you just stood in it
is it not acceptable therefore that the following statements are true simply because people believe them to be
god is exists
god does not exist
neither statement is based on facts or is provable yet both are true

 

[Crunchy Cat]

I had a good laugh at that one. Essentially what you said was that atheists might have to eventually invent a new religion.

On that point at least I totally agree with you. The rest is all pseudo-intellectual garbage.

That interpretation was a little closer anyhow. I'll try to paraphrase. It's my opinion that atheists one day might have to unify, ask reality some serious questions about truth and human needs, and deliver the results to our species in a manner that people can relate to and use.

You might have to reeavluate if you agree with that.

 

[Theoryofrelativity]

That interpretation was a little closer anyhow. I'll try to paraphrase. It's my opinion that atheists one day might have to unify, ask reality some serious questions about truth and human needs, and deliver the results to our species in a manner that people can relate to and use.

You might have to reeavluate if you agree with that.

How is this different to what you said before? You want to 'spread the word'
You're just stating that you might be more effective if you can tap into those needs that religion seems to satisfy.

theist!

 

[Crunchy Cat]

crunchy thanks for all that but succinctly
humans need to believe ie
i believe that god is real
i believe that god is not real
undecided (or neither of the above perhaps there's a third way) not a popular stance

You're welcome. I disagree that human's *need* to believe, but I would agree that they are prone to it due to the ways that humans have adapted themselves towards meeting the core needs I referenced and because it's easy.

 

[sniffy]

all hail the great god Athe
burn the non believers
its got a strangely familiar ring to it

 

[Crunchy Cat]

How is this different to what you said before? You want to 'spread the word'
You're just stating that you might be more effective if you can tap into those needs that religion seems to satisfy.

theist!

Hahhaha. No theists here . It's different in that I would only consider a unified effort if it became necessary (ex. to survival). There's also a difference between 'spreading the word' and promoting visibility. For example, Fry's electronic's has a showcase for all their cool laptops. You can play with them, see that they exist, see what they can do, and their staff can act like guides / coaches to their exploration... or they can let the customer do that on their own. The point is that Fry's is the result of a unified effort. It shows people things and offers human assistance if desired.

And yes, it would be very effective to tap into those needs, but rather than simply trying to satisfy them it could be explicitly shown what they are, how they can be satisfied, provide demonstrations, allow exploration, etc. Fry's

 

[spuriousmonkey]

Are we superior? Yes, I think so. If you appreciate individualism and independent thought. If your ideals differ than not.

Btw, the selective reading of ToR made her skip the most important conclusion. For the atheist truth is relative. It changes all the time and it differs from person to person. Since I prefer individualism I think atheism is superior to theism. And that sentence once again points out that this is an individual viewpoint and that this idea i relative.

you won't hear your radical muslim or christian ever say that. But it's no problem for a radical atheist. Another reason why atheism is superior. The highest good, individualism and tolerance of other ideas doesn't suffer with increased fanaticism.

 

[Crunchy Cat]

all hail the great god Athe
burn the non believers
its got a strangely familiar ring to it

Yep, appreciation, dominance, and respect specifically. Burning the non-belivers keeps that idea alive and replicating (just like a virus).

 

[sniffy]

all hail the god tolerance
and they that exibit tolerance shall inherit the earth
letting all the others fight amongst themselves and flail about with gnashing of teeth and rending of cloth expending much energy in persuit of being right
and it shall come to be that none shall be proven right and much time will have been wasted and the earth laid barren

 

[Crunchy Cat]

Not enough virus to make it fly...

 

[sniffy]

Yep, appreciation, dominance, and respect specifically. Burning the non-belivers keeps that idea alive and replicating (just like a virus).

just cos it's familiar doesn't mean its good
burning non believers tends to have the opposite effect to that intended

 

[Crunchy Cat]

just cos it's familiar doesn't mean its good

'Good' is subjective and familiarity tends to make things easier.

burning non believers tends to have the opposite effect to that intended

Seems to work for Christians. Keeps em' believing and out of 'hell'.

 

[sniffy]

the road to hell is paved with good intentions
replace "good" with "works"

 

[Godless]

1) What was the "critical moment" for you (assuming that makes sense to your situation) and how did the Atheist community assist you?

My critical moment? Perhaps reality slaped my face when I was on acid trip. I had my first neverous break-down when I was 19, acid overdose. Yes I'm a recovering drug addict. 11 years now. I was catholic in my early years, indoctrinated cause of parents, mom. Dad was atheist. Anyways, I started using drugs when I was 13, first pot, then coke, then everything else. I moved from religion to religion, till my late teens, though the drug use, was always part of my life, had many religious friends who also did drugs, so as a young naive kid, one things it's ok. It took two nervous breakdowns to completely quit drugs. Though after the first breakdown, I became atheist. My second accured when I was 33, Crack addict.

My critical moment was to be let down by the church i was attending. Reading, self education brought me to realization, that religion, was in part what caused me to seek drugs. Not that that happens to everyone, see I wanted to be psychic, I wanted brain power, so I read these books of mind altering drugs and so, I did harder and harder drugs to get into a state of altered mind. Silly now that I think about it. LOL..

If you had an indoctrinated clone whom never encountered an Atheist, how would you choose to influence him/her?

I would make him study the bible. Best weapon an atheist has.

Who are you?

Ain't that the question everyone that has ever lived, and lives tries to answer? Know thy self. is very deep thing, not all people get to truly learn whom they are untill they face hardship and overcome obsticles and look deep in the mirror. I've been fortunate that I've learned who I am, and know what I am, and what I'm capable of.

Godless

 

[sniffy]

looking at oneself is one of the most difficult things to do (without becoming self obsessed)
much easier to search for meaning elsewhere
looking at self in relation to others can be rewarding
but the desire to change another person from theist to non theist or non theist to theist could be interpreted as an entirely selfish act which has nothing whatsoever to do with a search for truth