To my beautiful Atheists

Theoryofrelativity said:
thats the most sense you've made all day...keep flirting like this crunchy and I may have to retire early.......semi transluscent Italian dish..............I do assume that is male hotty and not pizza you are discussing?'
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:p IPU is Invisible Pink Unicorn and FSM is Flying Speghetti Monster. lol.
 
Crunchy Cat said:
Too Much Information. I'll await the first flame.
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bah thats no fun

Anyway I do have to retire, its bed time here (I hope I haven't crapped your thread up!) no doubt be some 'beautiful' atheists along tomoz :)
 
Theoryofrelativity said:
bah thats no fun

Anyway I do have to retire, its bed time here (I hope I haven't crapped your thread up!) no doubt be some 'beautiful' atheists along tomoz :)
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G'night. And don't hate the Atheists because they're beautiful *flings hair around*.
 
Crunchy Cat said:
1) What was the "critical moment" for you (assuming that makes sense to your situation) and how did the Atheist community assist you?!
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I was a young teenager when I realised that the stories did not fit the facts. At the time I did not know any Atheists so in that regard, I found my own way to realising that God did not exist. My questions had presented themselves as a very young child and by the time I became a teen, I simply stopped believing because I felt there was nothing to believe in aside from stories which had no basis at all.

2) If you had an indoctrinated clone whom never encountered an Atheist, how would you choose to influence him/her?
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I would not try to influence them. Atheism, for me anyway, is a path that must be taken willingly and knowingly. You can't influence someone into simply not believing. Each individual has to find their own path. If I were to attempt to influence someone into becoming an Atheist, I'd be doing the same thing that religions do, attempting to indoctrinate them into my belief system (for lack of a better term).

As we all know, removing the 'belief' virus is tough once it has a strong foothold on an adult and I am curious as to what the most successful 'treatments' :) have been.
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The hardest thing I think for many people is to start to think for themselves and not let others force you to leave your own path. I know from personal experience that my family were appalled when they realised that I simply did not believe. I come from a family who at that time were all strict Catholics. They did try to 'encourage' me to not turn my back on their entity. I simply felt it was hypocritical of me to state a belief that I really did not feel. I was honest about my feelings, it nearly killed my mum but in the end they understood and let me walk my own path. The rest of my family on the other hand were not so understanding and several of them ended up becoming rabid Christian fanatics who had taken to threatening me in the last few years and who have taken to referring to me as the devil and a heathen. That's their issue and not mine.

My advice is that if someone has questions, then don't ignore them. Keep asking questions until you feel satisfied with the answer. If a person feels happy in their belief then they should not be forced to ignore that belief. I can't attempt to remove a person's belief in their God, because that is the path they have chosen for themselves. If they have questions, the answers should only be found by themselves and within themselves. If I am asked, then I will answer as to how it pertains to me, but the questioner should find their own answers as to what constitutes their own belief and whether they feel comfortable believing as they do.

I won't lie and say I don't laugh at some of the Christian fanatics who frequent these forums. :p As for treating people like retards.. LOL!.. if you behave like a retard, regardless of you're beliefs, you will be treated like one. :)
 
Bells said:
I was a young teenager when I realised that the stories did not fit the facts. At the time I did not know any Atheists so in that regard, I found my own way to realising that God did not exist. My questions had presented themselves as a very young child and by the time I became a teen, I simply stopped believing because I felt there was nothing to believe in aside from stories which had no basis at all.


I would not try to influence them. Atheism, for me anyway, is a path that must be taken willingly and knowingly. You can't influence someone into simply not believing. Each individual has to find their own path. If I were to attempt to influence someone into becoming an Atheist, I'd be doing the same thing that religions do, attempting to indoctrinate them into my belief system (for lack of a better term).


The hardest thing I think for many people is to start to think for themselves and not let others force you to leave your own path. I know from personal experience that my family were appalled when they realised that I simply did not believe. I come from a family who at that time were all strict Catholics. They did try to 'encourage' me to not turn my back on their entity. I simply felt it was hypocritical of me to state a belief that I really did not feel. I was honest about my feelings, it nearly killed my mum but in the end they understood and let me walk my own path. The rest of my family on the other hand were not so understanding and several of them ended up becoming rabid Christian fanatics who had taken to threatening me in the last few years and who have taken to referring to me as the devil and a heathen. That's their issue and not mine.

My advice is that if someone has questions, then don't ignore them. Keep asking questions until you feel satisfied with the answer. If a person feels happy in their belief then they should not be forced to ignore that belief. I can't attempt to remove a person's belief in their God, because that is the path they have chosen for themselves. If they have questions, the answers should only be found by themselves and within themselves. If I am asked, then I will answer as to how it pertains to me, but the questioner should find their own answers as to what constitutes their own belief and whether they feel comfortable believing as they do.

I won't lie and say I don't laugh at some of the Christian fanatics who frequent these forums. :p As for treating people like retards.. LOL!.. if you behave like a retard, regardless of you're beliefs, you will be treated like one. :)
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jeeze... because you disagree you are threatened and insulted by your own blood... sad... one of the negativities of religion (although some Athiests do the same, they dont usually do it when its their own blood... they just insult)

Im glad you chose your own path, altho i disagree with it, because people should be able to choose for themselves...

Oh and go up to those family members and just tell them that in the New Testament (i suggest if u wanna go all biblical on them and make them feel like DUMBASSES, you look up the exact book, which if im not mistaken is in the Letters of the Apostles) it says that no one has the authority to judge except God... and only God... so, since they judge you as a heathen... or even worse a devil who obviously resides in hell, is contradicting their own Holy Book!

But that is... if you want to show them... ;)
 
Bells said:
I was a young teenager when I realised that the stories did not fit the facts. At the time I did not know any Atheists so in that regard, I found my own way to realising that God did not exist. My questions had presented themselves as a very young child and by the time I became a teen, I simply stopped believing because I felt there was nothing to believe in aside from stories which had no basis at all.


I would not try to influence them. Atheism, for me anyway, is a path that must be taken willingly and knowingly. You can't influence someone into simply not believing. Each individual has to find their own path. If I were to attempt to influence someone into becoming an Atheist, I'd be doing the same thing that religions do, attempting to indoctrinate them into my belief system (for lack of a better term).


The hardest thing I think for many people is to start to think for themselves and not let others force you to leave your own path. I know from personal experience that my family were appalled when they realised that I simply did not believe. I come from a family who at that time were all strict Catholics. They did try to 'encourage' me to not turn my back on their entity. I simply felt it was hypocritical of me to state a belief that I really did not feel. I was honest about my feelings, it nearly killed my mum but in the end they understood and let me walk my own path. The rest of my family on the other hand were not so understanding and several of them ended up becoming rabid Christian fanatics who had taken to threatening me in the last few years and who have taken to referring to me as the devil and a heathen. That's their issue and not mine.

My advice is that if someone has questions, then don't ignore them. Keep asking questions until you feel satisfied with the answer. If a person feels happy in their belief then they should not be forced to ignore that belief. I can't attempt to remove a person's belief in their God, because that is the path they have chosen for themselves. If they have questions, the answers should only be found by themselves and within themselves. If I am asked, then I will answer as to how it pertains to me, but the questioner should find their own answers as to what constitutes their own belief and whether they feel comfortable believing as they do.

I won't lie and say I don't laugh at some of the Christian fanatics who frequent these forums. :p As for treating people like retards.. LOL!.. if you behave like a retard, regardless of you're beliefs, you will be treated like one. :)
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Thanks Bells! Your walk down memory lane and brutal honesty about your path are very much appreciated. Many Atheists including myself have been down scarily similar paths. In the end, and you seem to know this quite well, it doesn't matter how you come into it, what matters is how you turn out.
 
Provita said:
jeeze... because you disagree you are threatened and insulted by your own blood... sad... one of the negativities of religion (although some Athiests do the same, they dont usually do it when its their own blood... they just insult)
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I think you would be amazed how common of a scenario this is. There was that recently publicized Muslim case where some fella's family wanted to murder him because he turned Atheist. It's a risky minority to be in.
 
Hahahhahahha! Athiests ho!

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Theoryofrelativity said:
:m:

eh.......eh..........eh?
Where have you been the last how long? Have you never seen a thread for 'believers' and theists ravaged and rampaged by athiests with guns blazing?

I am in a different sci forums to you obviously..... :bugeye:
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And that somehow justifies YOUR behavior?

Not that it's a huge deal, I'm just sayin...

Seems a smidge silly. And I KNOW silly. Hehe.

Meh.

(just for you, nothing more satisfying than offering a woman a good quiver)
 
Why are all of u coming in here? He said BEAUTIFUL athiests!! NOT UGLY ONES!!!! :p (jk jk)
 
Mine was pretty much the same as Bell's except I really had no religious upbringing. Religion wasn't talked about. There were even no family discussions of any kind as far as I can remember, a very uncommunicative family. I gradually got to reading the bible a bit in my early teens and thought there might be something to it but never did 'believe' at that time, no matter what anyone says. Late teens I not only gotten more skeptical but I was very mad if a God existed and really hate him with a passion for putting me here, it wasn't like I asked to be put through the hell at the time, or so the way I felt. Thought I found God again in my early 20's after associating with my religious great-uncle and even got baptised. I felt like perhaps I found God momentarily but thought this couldn't be right, the way Christians are living. If you do follow this God of yours and say this and that to cover your tracks for doing what I thought were sketchy things such as being rich and not spreading your wealth to starving children and whatnot, ignoring the pain of humankind, driving around in your fine cars like kings and queens in the meantime. Being proud and happy with all the suffering in the world. Not to mention all the contradictions in the bible and the seemingly wrong things the prophets have done wrong, Jesus included, and why we should be thankful for someone dying to supposedly give us a chance to not go to hell, I was pretty insulted at those connotations, like I should be thankful to be here or something, to be put through this mess. That was enough right there for me to hate God, or my mis-interpretation of Him at the time.
Anyhow, wasn't until the end of my rope, I was fed up with all the crap. I said to myself, something like, 'God, enough of the crap, I just can't believe and if you put me here to torture me with this and knowing full well I won't have enough info to believe in you, than when I go, I am going to do my best to spite you for all the suffering you have caused and not only will join you supposed enemy, but will beat the hell out of him also for troubling me while I'm here'. I'm like, 'what's the devil gonna do, kill me more? I'm dead, have no nerves to feel pain, I'll overtake hell'. I know, I'm a really intense person and don't put up with a lot of crap. And, long story short, that's when we settled it. All the answers the religious couldn't give me, I grabbed myself. I asked, and was given. It's like He gave me a tour of His viewpoint so I could see all the trouble He has and all the pain of His creation spiting Him. I am not a very emotional person and hate to admit it as a guy but I cried when I felt His pain, just a part of it and was a very heavy burden. And told me it's time for a change.

I can still feel part of His pain when I want and His troubles. He gave me a very realistic viewpoint which I still hold today. It's a blessing and a curse. I see not how things appear to most humans but the stark reality of it all. I see no friends, only people who are looking to look after themselves, that is the brutal nature of the animal kingdom. Although I know it is good for them and me to have friends and God put us here for each other, no matter how selfish the motives seem for natural man. I see no need to invest money, since if I have too much, I should be giving it to my poorer brethren. I see no need to not have it either since it does take care of me and others. I don't see much need to relax since there is so much trouble in the world yet I know it is good for the body. I see no need for material possessions and have virtually no passion in them anymore. I am almost as a robot now. I feel I have to do what I see fit because God gave me the truth now, as it should be done. I asked for it, and so I got it which is more responsibility than I planned for. I see virtually no abstract, or imaginary aspects to life, just stark, logical, reality. For a week after finding God, truly, I was depressed and could hardly handle the truth. I saw no purpose to life other than to be a robot and do as I know I should now, not what I believe. For the purpose of not babbling on too much, I won't go into too much.

But still to this day a couple years ago, I keep wondering if that marked a time in my life when I started going insane or just got realistic? I try to think logically and what is best for all, or the wisest decision, so I can't see that as insane. Or did God give me that info to give to others in a less stark manner? Since then, I just can't see one day where I can really relax until I pass from this earth. I feel I have a mission God gave me and there's something I must do but won't be hasty on figuring it out to make sure I'm not going insane. Anyhow, whether you agree with my sanity or not, that's basically my perspective I've had as a non-believer over my younger years.
 
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Wow, that's an interesting life story. I want to ask you a question in all seriousness. Who are you?
 
Crunchy Cat said:
Hi guys,

I have two question for those of you whom were believers at one time and were later influenced by Atheists to drop the thought process of 'belief' as a means to understand reality:

1) What was the "critical moment" for you (assuming that makes sense to your situation) and how did the Atheist community assist you?

2) If you had an indoctrinated clone whom never encountered an Atheist, how would you choose to influence him/her?

As we all know, removing the 'belief' virus is tough once it has a strong foothold on an adult and I am curious as to what the most successful 'treatments' :) have been.

P.S. I really do appreciate the hard work all of you willingly engage on these forums. To embrace truth comes at a cost of being a minority and comes at a requirement of courage, committment, and risk taking. Kudo's to you all!
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I was a believer - I guess.
I was brought up an RC - and went to church - and from what I can remember I did really believe.

But slowly I realised that I didn't need it - religion - to be able to live my life the way I was already leading it. It was redundant to me. It added nothing - and nothing was lost by its absence.

So I began to question it more and more - not only the religion itself as a whole but the tennets of the religion - and religion in general.

And I came to the conclusion, through discussions with friends, that the very idea of God is as possible as anything else that resides outside the observable. And at that point I realised I no longer had a belief in God.


If I had an indoctrinated clone then, assuming that it had had the same education as me, it would be relatively simple to de-brainwash him - as it would just be a matter of pointing out the irrationality of belief.
 
Sarkus said:
I was a believer - I guess.
I was brought up an RC - and went to church - and from what I can remember I did really believe.

But slowly I realised that I didn't need it - religion - to be able to live my life the way I was already leading it. It was redundant to me. It added nothing - and nothing was lost by its absence.

So I began to question it more and more - not only the religion itself as a whole but the tennets of the religion - and religion in general.

And I came to the conclusion, through discussions with friends, that the very idea of God is as possible as anything else that resides outside the observable. And at that point I realised I no longer had a belief in God.


If I had an indoctrinated clone then, assuming that it had had the same education as me, it would be relatively simple to de-brainwash him - as it would just be a matter of pointing out the irrationality of belief.
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Your response is a very interesting one. Presence or absence of belief had no affect on you and that's when you began to question assertions of belief. Thanks Sarkus!
 
The post below never made it to the board; however, I caught in in email.

Theoryofrelativity said:
See a funny thing, I was NOty raised with any religion or religious stories and just like bells, the ones I came across logic taold me they were not rtue and i have never beleieved them. But my own experience of life and observations taughte me that a 'God' existed, so fairy stories or not, I remained free of following sheep and labelling myself and being one or the other. i go my own way, beleive my own thing and do not seek to convert. The religious want or need or can;'t escape the stories of their religion, that is their business I do not disrespect them. I do not disrespect athesist for your non belief, I am surrounded by athesists in my real life, family friends and lover all atheists. Makes no difference, we respect each other, they do not consider I am a retard or that view of life is clouded. All I am saying in my rather unlovely way, is why can't these atheists theist matters be discussed without you all labelling each other so grimly. Yoiu don't like bneing called fuck wits, well where I come that is positively a compliment, I could have said something much worse....like 'religious atheists' oooh now that's contentious.
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I am really interested to hear about some of the more noteable experiences and observations that taught you 'God' exists. I saw that "retarded" reference come up again (I can only presume that it's pressing some button for you). My original statement was:

"...indirectly showed that laziness of thought (not independence of thought) might be a core issue retarding the 'believer'. "

What the desired interpretation is not is that theists are retarded. The intended interpretation is that a particular reference in skinwalker's thread provided surface evidence that a 'believer' might gravitate towards concepts that are simple and intuitive and reject more compex concepts as a result. That rejection may slow down / hold the believer back from personal growth. That is what I meant with the word 'retard'.
 
If I may add my tuupence worth
There is much contention over whether or not there is a god/s/diety/one true sock puppet. and i've asked this before but no-one seems to respond....
Instead of worrying our little heads over whether there is or isn't why don't we think a little harder on why humans need to believe in something or indeed not to
It seems to me that agnoticism has a place in these debates
Is it all so black and white or may there be some grey in there :eek:
 
Crunchy Cat said:
The post below never made it to the board; however, I caught in in email.



I am really interested to hear about some of the more noteable experiences and observations that taught you 'God' exists. I saw that "retarded" reference come up again (I can only presume that it's pressing some button for you). My original statement was:

"...indirectly showed that laziness of thought (not independence of thought) might be a core issue retarding the 'believer'. "

.
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crunchy, I have seen theists referred to as retards in other threads, so this is not necc related to you, no buttons being pushed, I just think its short sighted.

Re My 'God' thing, there is zero point me elaborating, I will be called a liar, mad and so on and so forth. So we'll leave it at that. I am unconcerned whether anyone shares my view and so do not feel the need to set myself up for unecc. ridicule. However re my thread 'versions of reality' in Human science forum, it has occurred to me recently, that quite simply due to biology some people may experience a different reality to others with the real reality remaining unknown and not related to 'madness' merely biological differences. This may explain why some people like myself are aware of something extra and some are not. just a thought?
 
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