Thread For Christians Only.

[audible]

The truth will be known soon enough, but we all are really confused with eternity,

I'm not confused, I wont be here that long.

and the truth will come from God himself. It is up to you to decide beforehand who it is you will serve for all eternity, Yourself and what you have faith in, or God.

no decision is necessary, I wont be around for an eternity, just a lifetime 70+years if I'm lucky.

Faith is an impossible thing to have, it must be given. Belief, on the other hand, is subject to your own will. If you want to find out who God is, you have to first decide to ignore your own logic, theories, and evidence. It takes a sheer act of will, but why?

no delusion, abandonment, recklessness, lunacy.

Why should you do such a foolish thing as be illogical, or is it illogical to believe in God?

yes, without real objective evidence, it is sheer lunacy.

That is also not up to you. Your logic is subject to your perception of reality.

no reality is the same for everyone, ibut you can imagine it to be different.

You must be given a reason to believe in the face of evidence, and it better be good!

but there ar'nt any.

There are many reasons,

nobody has ever seen any in objective reality.

but they must be shown to you by God, people, and nature.

but gods are non-existent therefore it's impossible, for an imaginary thing to show you anything.

You have probably been through a lot, and so you cannot logically escape the physical limitations of your perceived reality.

reality just is it is not limiting or unlimited, it's neutral.

Is it safe to assume that since you are here discrediting the existence of any god?

wrong, but you can assume what you wish you would'nt be a believer if you did'nt.
however you cannot discredit, or damage the reputation, or disgrace, something that does not exist.

You ask for proof of God, but no more proof will be given by God. He can give you faith and you can change your perception

no it cant,(it is non-existent) and no you cant.[you perception is the same as mine unless you refering to subjective reality, then what you see can have unlimited changes, what ever you imagination can conjour up.

(which would open the doors to more proof),

what, where, more imagings.

but why should you believe that 1+2=3

it does so I should.

in order to believe that 3+3=9? Absurd and foolish.

yes that would be stupid.

If things are as they seem with you, you will never find God on your own, nor do you need any god. At least that is the way you perceive reality.

no that is the way objective reality is, but subjective reality can have endless permutations.

A person does not need God to exist, that would be absurd and a discredit to God's intentions.

no nobody needs something imaginary to exist, well perhaps the perfect woman, I imagined, she would do me fine. but again you cannot discredit, or damage the reputation, or disgrace, something that does not exist.

It happens to make life fuller and more enjoyable, but that doesn't give weight to the value of believing, or does it? If you seek the truth, it is illogical to believe in fantasy.

well said thats the first real wise thing you said.

I was raised learning about God, then I rejected his existence, and God drew me back, and I cannot logically leave my belief now. I didn't know about Pascal's wager before a few months ago, but that is the argument that was the turning point to my belief in God. That argument gave me the intellectual strength of will to at least fake being a Christian until I became a God follower.

Pascal's wager
................................God exists..............God does not exist
I believe..................Go To Heaven..........Nothing
I do not believe.......Burn In Hell!............Nothing

plain and simple pascals wager is flawed

It is better to live your life as if there are no Gods, and try to make the world a better place for your being in it. If there is no God, you have lost nothing and will be remembered fondly by those you left behind. If there is a benevolent God, He will judge you on your merits and not just on whether or not you believed in Him.

Humanity's wager
...............................God exists........................God does not exist
I believe..................Go To Heaven because....Wasted life praying etc.
...............................you believed
I do not believe......Go To Heaven because.....Made the world a better place
...............................you're a good person


the flaws in pascal's wager

How do you know which God to believe in? There are plenty to choose from, and if you pick the wrong one, you could be in big trouble (e.g. what if you choose Jesus, but get to heaven only to come face-to-trunk with Ganesh?). This is known as the "Avoiding the wrong Hell problem". If a dozen people of different religions came to you with Pascal's Wager, how could you possibly choose between them? After all, many religions are quite specific that they are the One True Religion, and not any others. Jesus Christ said "I am the way, the truth and the light. None shall come to the Father except through me." [emphasis added] and no doubt most other religions make similar claims. If a Christian considers the Wager as strong support for his faith, surely he must accept that it is equally valid for all other religions when presented to himself?

God is not stupid. Won't He know that you're just trying to get a free ride into Heaven? How can you sincerely believe in a God simply out of convenience?

If there is no God, you have still lost something. You have wasted a good portion of your life performing the various devotional rituals, attending Churches, praying, reading scripture and discussing your deity with His other followers. Not to mention giving your hard-earned money to the church, wasting your intelligence on theological endeavours and boring the hell out of people who really don't want to hear your Good News.

Can you get away with just sort of generally believing in a Supreme Being, without specifically believing in one particular Deity? Probably not - God will still know what you're up to. Also, many Gods are quite particular about how they should be worshipped. Many born-again Christians will tell you that the only way to Heaven is through accepting Jesus Christ as your personal saviour - nothing more and nothing less. General-Deity-Belief and being nice simply won't do. Many people believe that all the different religions are merely alternative routes to the same destination. Nice and tolerant (if a little warm'n'fuzzy) though this may be, there is no valid reason to accept this stance over the fire-and-brimstone fundamentalist position : if the fundies are right, then the un-Saved liberal theists are in just as much trouble as the nonbelievers.

Few, if any, atheists disbelieve in deities out of choice. It's not as if we know the god is really there, but somehow refuse to believe in it (for example, see if you can choose to truly believe that Australia does not exist). Most atheists disbelieve simply because they know of no compelling evidence to suggest that any sort of god exists. If you want an atheist to believe, show her some good evidence, don't just say it's in her best interests to believe even if there is no god. A person cannot choose to sincerely believe in something, just because it is pragmatic to do so. Sure, you could say all the right prayers and attend church regularly, but that is not the same thing as actually believing, and any God worth his salt would obviously see straight through that.

It is quite insulting. It amounts to a thinly veiled threat, little better than saying "Believe in my God or He'll send you to Hell" (in fact, this is often the form it is presented in). Also, the theist making this threat assumes that the atheist believes there is a Hell or a God to send her there in the first place. If you don't believe in Hell anyway, it's not a scary thing to be threatened with - a bit like saying "If you don't start believing in unicorns, one will trample you to death while you're sleeping." Who would be worried by that?

It is often self-refuting, depending on the person's description of God. If you believe that God will forgive anyone for anything, or judge people purely on how they lived their life and not what they believed, or that everyone gets to Heaven regardless (unless maybe they were genocidal cannibal serial killers), then the Wager is meaningless. You might as well say "Believe in God, or you'll... erm... go to Heaven anyway." In such a case, it doesn't make a scrap of difference whether the person believes or not.

a barnett.

What I am saying, is there is nothing I can say to help you with your beliefs. I can voice my opinion, but that does little good in the face of logic.

thats the second really wise thing you said. well done, theirs hope for you yet.

The only thing I can say, is that there is no truth today because we are all limited to our perception.

yes your imagined perception is unlimited, but reality is the same for all.

There is one truth, but we don't know it yet. The universe is still much of a mystery that we postulate about. I would argue with Pascal's wager, because you have nothing to lose and a richer life to gain,

read above about ther wager.

regardless of eternity (which we know nothing about because we don't believe the people who claim to come back from clinically dead because there is no scientific reason to believe them). Enlightenment comes from knowing that you know nothing.

third time with some wisdom. hurrah.

As you slip out of black and white arrogance, you let reality be what it is, which is something we know only from the senses.

wow you are on a roll number four in the common sense stakes.

Enlightenment comes from realizing that there is more to life than perception.

oh f**k you've gone, and ruined your roll, you can go round in a fantasy world that has any perception you like but it's better here in the real world it's very nice.

Is what you believe the truth?

well yes, but it's not a belief, it's a fact.

Is my belief in God the truth?

no, dont be foolish, but in your subjective world, it can be the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

 

[SnakeLord]

yet you chose to talk about it on my thread - which made it my problem.

Let it be openly stated that being the creator of a thread does not give you sole and entire rights over it. It's by no means 'your problem', just a separate discussion taking place within a thread you started - for reasons unknown. Remaining true to point, nowhere in that post of mine did I ask you for "advice".

i was basing my advice from The Scriptures - my advice is simple and pure

Kindly justify that statement. Where is anything you said to me found in 'the scriptures'?

Further to which: If, as you claim, the advice was from 'the scriptures', you're in no place to say; "my advice", because it wouldn't be your advice, it would be 'the scriptures' advice. Very simple concept really, and I can tell you and 'simple' go together well.

you are the idiot for not understanding it

It's possible I guess, but unlikely. I do often question why it is seemingly so common for jesus followers to happily insult people, but 'tis not for me to judge. I have no worthwhile reason to debate against you, it seems the christians on this forum are doing good enough against you without my help - and that is why i specifically decided not to engage in discussion with you. It's just somewhat of a shame you had to butt in to a conversation I was having with someone else.

Oh well, whatever's your poison.

i was awake all the time - you are just talking about something that really has no adversity from The Scriptures.

Now see, there's the thing.. 'the scriptures' are completely irrelevant to the discussion I was having. You decided to butt in, and that's fine - I have no quarrel with that, but at least take the time to read what was written before thinking you're in a position to respond to it.

i did not see the need to do some serious thinking on an issue that had nothing at all to do with The Scriptures as relevant to this thread.

And having said that, it stands to reason that you should just have past by my post without comment. It had no relevance to you or scriptures, but was to someone else. I have no problem with you responding if you at least did the courtesy of "thinking" before doing so. Seemingly you didn't even read my post.

sorry, my bad - this was inexcusable of me

Perhaps, but you're excused anyway. See, us atheists can even surprise you fundy-folk sometimes.

i clearly said that you could take them or not - advice taken becomes advise, when not taken it becomes nothing - all you had to say was " thanks for the advise, but i will think about it"

That doesn't work. It's like a homeless person giving you advice on how to be rich. It's not so much "advice" as it is 'pathetic bollocks'. I felt the need to point that out.

 

[Hapsburg]

you should have known that 'hasbeens' comment that there were no records about The Christ was an idiotic one and duncy on tthe highest scale.

Mein gott in himmel...
If the Romans had no record of jesus' existance, he didn't exist. The Romans kept track of everything. I've read into this. The Romans had no records of J.C, therefore JC didn't exist. Simple. As. That.

the sixty year old man thinks like a teenager and wishes to become a teenager again so just ignore him.

What the fuck makes you think I'm 60?
I'm 15, dumbfuck, nearly 16. Check my user account, you stupid shit. It says so, right in there. You should pay attention more often, fucktard.

 

[Angelic Being]

jadon/angelic b: could you answer a question for me, what do you consider to be, based on the scriptures, a true christian? and are you that christian?.

yes, i am.

thanks.

 

[Angelic Being]

Let it be openly stated that being the creator of a thread does not give you sole and entire rights over it. It's by no means 'your problem', just a separate discussion taking place within a thread you started - for reasons unknown. Remaining true to point, nowhere in that post of mine did I ask you for "advice".



Kindly justify that statement. Where is anything you said to me found in 'the scriptures'?

Further to which: If, as you claim, the advice was from 'the scriptures', you're in no place to say; "my advice", because it wouldn't be your advice, it would be 'the scriptures' advice. Very simple concept really, and I can tell you and 'simple' go together well.



It's possible I guess, but unlikely. I do often question why it is seemingly so common for jesus followers to happily insult people, but 'tis not for me to judge. I have no worthwhile reason to debate against you, it seems the christians on this forum are doing good enough against you without my help - and that is why i specifically decided not to engage in discussion with you. It's just somewhat of a shame you had to butt in to a conversation I was having with someone else.

Oh well, whatever's your poison.



Now see, there's the thing.. 'the scriptures' are completely irrelevant to the discussion I was having. You decided to butt in, and that's fine - I have no quarrel with that, but at least take the time to read what was written before thinking you're in a position to respond to it.



And having said that, it stands to reason that you should just have past by my post without comment. It had no relevance to you or scriptures, but was to someone else. I have no problem with you responding if you at least did the courtesy of "thinking" before doing so. Seemingly you didn't even read my post.



Perhaps, but you're excused anyway. See, us atheists can even surprise you fundy-folk sometimes.



That doesn't work. It's like a homeless person giving you advice on how to be rich. It's not so much "advice" as it is 'pathetic bollocks'. I felt the need to point that out.

you keep on going in circles - over and over and over - its as if you have something against me and you are just creating talk - remember this thread is not personal so dont get personal.

very soon i will be accused of insulting atheists again and this time - misguided Christians as well.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

Mein gott in himmel... If the Romans had no record of jesus' existance, he didn't exist. The Romans kept track of everything. I've read into this. The Romans had no records of J.C, therefore JC didn't exist. Simple. As. That.

What the fuck makes you think I'm 60? I'm 15, dumbfuck, nearly 16. Check my user account, you stupid shit. It says so, right in there. You should pay attention more often, fucktard.

*************
M*W: I agree with you whole-heartedly, Hapsburg. For a 15 year-old, you are mature and learned for your age. Your parents should be very proud of you. Are they?

~ Go Astros

 

[Hapsburg]

I guess.
My only problem is I'm lazy as hell...

 

[audible]

yes, i am.

thanks.

as you say you are this true christian, could you answer thease questions for me, thank you
do you worship on a sunday?
do you believe in the Trinity?
do you have an Immortal Soul?
do you believe you will ascend to heaven on your death?
do you give, to all regardless that they might be your enemies?
do you celebrate easter?

 

[Hapsburg]

Remember, AB if you answer "no" to any one of those, you are not actually a christian. Those things audie listed are simply the basic doctrines of christianity. If you do not believe in them, you are a heretic within your own religion.
And then I shall laugh at the irony.

Mormonism, despite its overall stupidity, at least fufills the basics of it;s initial religious point. Of course, it doesn't really matter, because no religion is true. I just like irony, and laughing at the hapless victims of it.

 

[water]

Q,

Do you really want to know God?

Sure, doesn't everyone?

I'm not so sure everyone wants to know God.


But the attitude which you have displayed so far, your cynical and demeaning remarks towards many people -- such an attitude makes clear that you will receive much less from people than you could if you would not have this negativistic approach.

And no, just refraining from saying certain things will not do, you need a change of heart. Or you will still perceive things the same way as you do now -- namely that you "see no truths".

Seeing that you have been debating these things for years now, and made no advancement, tells me that the real issues that are troubling you are something more general, not religion per se.
You have been banging your head against the wall for years now -- don't you think that the problem is with you?
If the problem is indeed with other people (theists, in this case), why don't you leave their problems to them? You must have a reason why you are choosing to make their problems your own. And you must also have a reason why you keep insisting on your completely ineffectual method of dealing with those problems.

I think you should see a counselor for anger management.

But you miss the point. The whole concept of gods is mere human quackery.

In this case, don't be surprised that all you *perceive* is human quackery when you hear people talking about God.
As you have made your bed, so you shall lay in it.

 

[(Q)]

your cynical and demeaning remarks towards many people such an attitude makes clear that you will receive much less from people than you could if you would not have this negativistic approach.

You're kidding, right? The fear and ignorance religion advocates is far more negative than anything I could conjure.

you need a change of heart.Or you will still perceive things the same way as you do now -- namely that you "see no truths".

Nonsense. As I stated, truths are relative, hence useless.

Seeing that you have been debating these things for years now, and made no advancement, tells me that the real issues that are troubling you are something more general, not religion per se.

No, they are precisely religious in nature. And if you hadn't noticed, a number of people on this forum have given up religion based on what they're read here. Advancement has been successful.

You have been banging your head against the wall for years now -- don't you think that the problem is with you?

Haha, good one. I'm the problem, not religion. You should have been a comedienne.

If the problem is indeed with other people (theists, in this case), why don't you leave their problems to them?

Because their problems become my problems, whether I like it or not.

You must have a reason why you are choosing to make their problems your own.

See above.

And you must also have a reason why you keep insisting on your completely ineffectual method of dealing with those problems.

See above. Effective.

I think you should see a counselor for anger management.

I think you should get an education, grow up and stop believing in fairy tales.

In this case, don't be surprised that all you *perceive* is human quackery when you hear people talking about God.
As you have made your bed, so you shall lay in it.

Huh?

 

[water]

Q,


I can only repeat:
As you have made your bed, so you shall lay in it.

 

[jayleew]

Humanity's wager
...............................God exists........................God does not exist
I believe..................Go To Heaven because....Wasted life praying etc.
...............................you believed
I do not believe......Go To Heaven because.....Made the world a better place
...............................you're a good person

If you believe and live the way of Christ, and God exists, you will go to heaven. If you believe and live the way of Christ, and God doesn't exist, you will have made the world a better place and lived a content life, in-tune with nature. And you are loved by the lives that you touch and inspire. You were larger than life.

No one can ever be good enough to go to heaven on their own merit, so if you do not believe and are a good person, you will face judgement. You may or may not go to heaven, you will be judged. If you do not believe and God does not exist, then you have done the best you could to live a decent life and make the world a better place. Besides the fact that we can argue what defines a "better" place and what is a "decent" life, you were always motivated by your own desires.

the flaws in pascal's wager

How do you know which God to believe in? There are plenty to choose from, and if you pick the wrong one, you could be in big trouble (e.g. what if you choose Jesus, but get to heaven only to come face-to-trunk with Ganesh?). This is known as the "Avoiding the wrong Hell problem". If a dozen people of different religions came to you with Pascal's Wager, how could you possibly choose between them? After all, many religions are quite specific that they are the One True Religion, and not any others. Jesus Christ said "I am the way, the truth and the light. None shall come to the Father except through me." [emphasis added] and no doubt most other religions make similar claims. If a Christian considers the Wager as strong support for his faith, surely he must accept that it is equally valid for all other religions when presented to himself?

That is not a flaw in the argument of pascal's wager, that is a flaw in religions.
There is only one religion that can be proven among theists. One truth that all religions have bits and pieces of. The reason that there is disagreement among different religions is, of course, subjectivity and the problem is with the other religions and its cultish members, even Christianity in the wrong hands. I've heard some lies and unscriptural ideas promoted by Christian men and women, priest and sinner. Even something as benign as Catholicism is dangerous. I come from a Catholic background. Once I left the church I was shunned by my own mother. Other relgions beliefs promote the destruction of all faith but their own. Christianity (when the follower is free from subjectivity) does not. Of course, it is impossible to be completely open minded about everything, but we can try.

If you say, "What about the Crusades?" The first one was a defensive campaign from Muslim oppression, and it was obviously blessed because it was the most successful. All the other campaigns were made by bad religion, and man's desires to "kill the heathens." In short, they were an atrocity, and a blemish that was not scripturally sound.

If there is no God, you have still lost something. You have wasted a good portion of your life performing the various devotional rituals, attending Churches, praying, reading scripture and discussing your deity with His other followers. Not to mention giving your hard-earned money to the church, wasting your intelligence on theological endeavours and boring the hell out of people who really don't want to hear your Good News.

Rituals and traditions are man-made that God appreciated when he saw the heart behind it. They are not necessary, Jesus was not a fan of tradition if it was done for the sake of tradition. It is easy for religious people to fall into the trap and not even realize it.

As far as chruch, praying, reading scripture, and discussing churchy things, it is enjoyable. If there is no God, it won't matter, I can't be remorseful if I'm dead.

If you don't want to hear the Good News, don't read. This post wasn't for you anyway, it sounded as though Q would appreciate some insight, but if I'm mistaken, I'll shut up.

Few, if any, atheists disbelieve in deities out of choice. It's not as if we know the god is really there, but somehow refuse to believe in it (for example, see if you can choose to truly believe that Australia does not exist). Most atheists disbelieve simply because they know of no compelling evidence to suggest that any sort of god exists. If you want an atheist to believe, show her some good evidence, don't just say it's in her best interests to believe even if there is no god. A person cannot choose to sincerely believe in something, just because it is pragmatic to do so. Sure, you could say all the right prayers and attend church regularly, but that is not the same thing as actually believing, and any God worth his salt would obviously see straight through that.

If you honestly refuse to believe in God and openly reject God, there is hope for you from my perspective.
What I am saying is that there is no evidence that can be given by mankind enough to prove to an atheist, because of the taoist trap that they are in, save one. By inspiring you by my actions to believe, you might be motivated to look into God's existence more openly. Since I am not part of your life, I for one, cannot accomplish this. But I pray you find God in someone close to you, because his "spirit" lives within his children, and you will know God if you see it.

It is quite insulting. It amounts to a thinly veiled threat, little better than saying "Believe in my God or He'll send you to Hell" (in fact, this is often the form it is presented in). Also, the theist making this threat assumes that the atheist believes there is a Hell or a God to send her there in the first place. If you don't believe in Hell anyway, it's not a scary thing to be threatened with - a bit like saying "If you don't start believing in unicorns, one will trample you to death while you're sleeping." Who would be worried by that?

Did Jesus ever say directly to anyone, "If you don't believe, John Smith, you are going to Hell?" Jesus didn't condemn anyone, and if we are trying to be like Jesus, neither should we Christians, if we are to be called "Christ"-ians. But, in the end, sin cannot dwell with holiness, or it would be a sin of God, so everyone will be judged.

It is often self-refuting, depending on the person's description of God. If you believe that God will forgive anyone for anything, or judge people purely on how they lived their life and not what they believed, or that everyone gets to Heaven regardless (unless maybe they were genocidal cannibal serial killers), then the Wager is meaningless. You might as well say "Believe in God, or you'll... erm... go to Heaven anyway." In such a case, it doesn't make a scrap of difference whether the person believes or not.

No one can truly say who will make it to heaven. The scriptures say if you believe that Jesus, God's son, was a sacrifice for your sins, and repent by the sacrifice paid and vow to not sin again, you are cleansed and the sin is not even be remembered. So, when you face judgement, God will not remember the sin and you will be judged to be holy. Then, comes your rewards for all the "extra credit".

Flawed or not, you be the judge, but Pascal's wager is what worked for me and continues to give me strength to believe in God, in addition to the reasons to have faith that is custom-tailored to my life. Your counter arguments weren't presented adequately for me to change my position on Pascal's Wager. I invite you to attack the logic of the argument. I will read your rebuttal again, but the points you were making just didn't seem to apply on the first read.

 

[justagirl]

jayleew, I don't object to your type Of Christianity, if it works for you, go for it. But Christians that impose their beliefs on me and or make innuendos that the rest of us are going to hell leave a sour taste in my mouth.

To borrow and expound on something someone said pages ago, if God has infinite wisdom, virtually unlimited authority or influence, and a predisposition to do good, he wouldn't create us, love us, and condemn us

 

[jayleew]

jayleew, I don't object to your type Of Christianity, if it works for you, go for it. But Christians that impose their beliefs on me and or make innuendos that the rest of us are going to hell leave a sour taste in my mouth.

To borrow and expound on something someone said pages ago, if God has infinite wisdom, virtually unlimited authority or influence, and a predisposition to do good, he wouldn't create us, love us, and condemn us

Right. Did I come across the wrong way?

 

[justagirl]

You didn't

 

[Angelic Being]

as you say you are this true christian, could you answer thease questions for me, thank you
do you worship on a sunday?

void question - i worship every day, there is no one important day of the week - it is clear in The Scriptures.

do you believe in the Trinity?

already answered. - i am not a pagan

do you have an Immortal Soul?

Certainly not - i am not a pagan.

do you believe you will ascend to heaven on your death?

i wish!!! but i dont believe so - but it is okay.

do you give, to all regardless that they might be your enemies?

i try to give first to my "brothers and sisters in need' - i pray for my enemies that they may turn away from their evil natures.

do you celebrate easter?

no, i am not a pagan, but if you mean The Passover, then yes - in fact this is the most important time of the year as at marks the True Followers of The Christ.

 

[c20H25N3o]

Angelic Being : Surely you want embrace all peoples and share your faith in a humble way? The spirit is mild and gentle and waits for all men to open their hearts. What business do you have claiming some sort of exclusivity, like God has favourites of which you are one? Do you not see how you could make the spirit grieve through your attempt at creating factions? I tell you the truth, God created each and every one of us in the womb and each has an opportunity for a relationship with Him. What is it that people could say to you that you could not bear? Love bears all things remember?

peace

c20

 

[audible]

void question - i worship every day, there is no one important day of the week - it is clear in The Scriptures.

wrong it is not a void question it's written in the scriptures.

Lev. 23:3 "There are six days when you may work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of rest, a day of sacred assembly. You are not to do any work; wherever you live, it is a Sabbath to the LORD."

Sabbath is one of Christ's 10 commandments:
Exodus 20:8 "Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy..."

Sabbath day was changed by man:
"In the decision to celebrate the weekly festive day of rest on Sunday, (rather than Saturday) it may be that Pagan Roman usages played as large a part as in the fixing of the Christmas festival." refThe Catholic Encyclopedia, p. 781, vol. 12.)

Deut. 4:2 "Do not add to what I command you and do not subtract from it, but keep the commands of the LORD your God that I give you."

Christ kept the Sabbath:
Luke 4:16 "He went to the synagogue as his custom was, on the Sabbath day."

Do as Christ did:
1Pet. 2:21 "To this you were called, because Christ suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow in his steps."

Sabbath to be kept forever:
Exodus 31:12 "For this is a sign between me and you throughout your generations.
Exodus 31:16 "...a perpetual covenant..."
Exodus 31:17 "...a sign forever..."

Even in the future after Christ's Second Coming:
Isaiah 66:23 "...from Sabbath to Sabbath all flesh shall come to worship before me, says the Lord."

Heb 4:19 "The promise of entering his rest [the Millenium] remains...so there remains a Sabbath rest (in Greek: 'Sabbatismos') for the people of God."

Sabbath made for all men:
Mark 2:27 "And he [Jesus] said to them, 'The sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath.'"

it matters not that you worship ever day you must keep the sabbath to be a true christian. and thats a saturday.
so strike one.

already answered. - i am not a pagan

and strike two, if you believe in the father, the son, and the holy ghost,


Bible describes two personages, not three:
John 1:1-3 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made."

"In Scripture there is as yet no single term by which the Three Divine Persons are denoted together." (The New Catholic Encyclopedia Online.)

Holy Spirit is not a person; the original Greek indicates 'it' not 'he':
John 14:15 "I will request the Father and He will give you another helper to be with you forever, the spirit of the truth, which the world cannot receive because it neither beholds it nor knows it. You know it, because it remains with you and is in you."

When 'he' is used in scripture, it is referring to the Greek word, 'paraclete', a word which Jesus used to personify the Holy Spirit as: The Comforter; The Counselor; The Helper.

All of Paul's letters contain this greeting:
"Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ."
Could Paul have neglected to included the Holy Spirit if 'he' was one of the 'Holy Trinity'?

Holy Spirit is the power that emanates from God:
Romans 15:19 "...by the power of signs and wonders, by the power of the Holy Spirit..."

Certainly not - i am not a pagan.

wow, you answered this correct.

i wish!!! but i dont believe so - but it is okay.

and you are correct again, your right not to believe so.

John 13:36 "Where I go you cannot follow..."

John 14:2-3 "I go to prepare a place for you ...I will come again and will take you to myself that where I am you may be also."

Acts 2:29-34 "Patriarch David both died and was buried...David did not ascend into the heavens."

John 6:40 "For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day."

Dan. 12:2 "Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt."

1 Cor. 15: 22-23 "Just as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will come to life again, but each one in proper order; Christ the firstfruits, and then at his coming, those who belong to him."

i try to give first to my "brothers and sisters in need' - i pray for my enemies that they may turn away from their evil natures.

no you should'nt have any preferences, strike three.

"Give to everyone that asketh thee; and from him that
taketh away thy goods ask not again." Luke 6:30

"Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would
borrow of thee turn not thou away." Matt. 5:42

"But love your enemies, and do them good, and lend never despairing; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be Sons of the Most High: for he is kind toward the unthankful and evil." Luke. 6:35

no, i am not a pagan, but if you mean The Passover, then yes - in fact this is the most important time of the year as at marks the True Followers of The Christ.

your correct again, however if you struck out on just one of these, you are not a true christian, sorry.

and theres one question, I omited do you believe the bible is the only authoritative source of God's divine word?.
but it matters not as you already failed.

but it was inevitable you were going to fail, because there is one test you could not possible pass anyway, but your lucky, as I cant test it on you without killing you.
so I sorry sir you are not a true christian.

 

[Angelic Being]

wrong it is not a void question it's written in the scriptures.

Lev. 23:3 "There are six days when you may work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of rest, a day of sacred assembly. You are not to do any work; wherever you live, it is a Sabbath to the LORD."

Sabbath is one of Christ's 10 commandments:
Exodus 20:8 "Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy..."

Sabbath day was changed by man:
"In the decision to celebrate the weekly festive day of rest on Sunday, (rather than Saturday) it may be that Pagan Roman usages played as large a part as in the fixing of the Christmas festival." refThe Catholic Encyclopedia, p. 781, vol. 12.)

Deut. 4:2 "Do not add to what I command you and do not subtract from it, but keep the commands of the LORD your God that I give you."

Christ kept the Sabbath:
Luke 4:16 "He went to the synagogue as his custom was, on the Sabbath day."

Do as Christ did:
1Pet. 2:21 "To this you were called, because Christ suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow in his steps."

Sabbath to be kept forever:
Exodus 31:12 "For this is a sign between me and you throughout your generations.
Exodus 31:16 "...a perpetual covenant..."
Exodus 31:17 "...a sign forever..."

Even in the future after Christ's Second Coming:
Isaiah 66:23 "...from Sabbath to Sabbath all flesh shall come to worship before me, says the Lord."

Heb 4:19 "The promise of entering his rest [the Millenium] remains...so there remains a Sabbath rest (in Greek: 'Sabbatismos') for the people of God."

Sabbath made for all men:
Mark 2:27 "And he [Jesus] said to them, 'The sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath.'"

it matters not that you worship ever day you must keep the sabbath to be a true christian. and thats a saturday.
so strike one. .

very good - you have some knowledge of The verses in The scriptures. The Sabbath was a sign between The Creator and The Israelites, but by the time of The Christ, it had lost its true meaning and had merely become a tradition.
True The Christ observed worship on that day but please remember The Christ worshipped His FATHER every day - THERE WAS NO SPECIAL DAY OF THE WEEK AND THERE IS NONE TODAY.
you have to try search more in The Scriptures - there is nothing wrong with worshipping on Sunday or Saturday or whenever - but if you put emphasis on one day and demand that that be exclusive to worship - you make that day an idol and thus fall into apostacy.
Remember - The Christ is the Lord of The Sabbath - therefore all who believe in him are in Sabbath all the time - this is spiritual knowledge, not the words of foolish men and their doctrines which you uphold.

and strike two, if you believe in the father, the son, and the holy ghost,


Bible describes two personages, not three:
John 1:1-3 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made."

"In Scripture there is as yet no single term by which the Three Divine Persons are denoted together." (The New Catholic Encyclopedia Online.)

Holy Spirit is not a person; the original Greek indicates 'it' not 'he':
John 14:15 "I will request the Father and He will give you another helper to be with you forever, the spirit of the truth, which the world cannot receive because it neither beholds it nor knows it. You know it, because it remains with you and is in you."

When 'he' is used in scripture, it is referring to the Greek word, 'paraclete', a word which Jesus used to personify the Holy Spirit as: The Comforter; The Counselor; The Helper.

All of Paul's letters contain this greeting:
"Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ."
Could Paul have neglected to included the Holy Spirit if 'he' was one of the 'Holy Trinity'?

Holy Spirit is the power that emanates from God:
Romans 15:19 "...by the power of signs and wonders, by the power of the Holy Spirit...".

if you visited my other thread you would have seen that i do not even believe in the trinity - it is an abomination created by the devil.

wow, you answered this correct.
and you are correct again, your right not to believe so.

John 13:36 "Where I go you cannot follow..."

John 14:2-3 "I go to prepare a place for you ...I will come again and will take you to myself that where I am you may be also."

Acts 2:29-34 "Patriarch David both died and was buried...David did not ascend into the heavens."

John 6:40 "For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day."

Dan. 12:2 "Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt."

1 Cor. 15: 22-23 "Just as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will come to life again, but each one in proper order; Christ the firstfruits, and then at his coming, those who belong to him." .

Logic is telling me that there is no way i deserve to go to heaven - one has to be like the First Century Christians in order to get that reward - i try my best everyday to follow The Christs Teachings.

no you should'nt have any preferences, strike three.

"Give to everyone that asketh thee; and from him that
taketh away thy goods ask not again." Luke 6:30

"Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would
borrow of thee turn not thou away." Matt. 5:42

"But love your enemies, and do them good, and lend never despairing; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be Sons of the Most High: for he is kind toward the unthankful and evil." Luke. 6:35.

very good again - you seem to have abit of knowledge on this issue - but think - i know those verses - spiritually they dont apply to what you think they are;

Tell me - Do you love satan?, do you pray for the devil?

enemies mentioned here are those that cause you pain and suffering within The Church - can you deny that even our Christian Brothers and Sisters do or say hurtful things - so we must always forgive them.

do not apply the verses to those who hate Christianity or to non-Christians - but remember do not purposefully hurt or harm them.

your correct again, however if you struck out on just one of these, you are not a true christian, sorry.

and theres one question, I omited do you believe the bible is the only authoritative source of God's divine word?.
but it matters not as you already failed.

but it was inevitable you were going to fail, because there is one test you could not possible pass anyway, but your lucky, as I cant test it on you without killing you.
so I sorry sir you are not a true christian.

you sound deluded and spiteful - there is no such thing as true Christian - but there is something called Misguided Christians - and you are certainly one of them.

it amuses me when someone who thinks in the physically inferior state tries to understand a person like me coming from a Spiritually Superior state.

Advise: try to read some of my previuos posts and use more of your common sense.

thanks.