Thread For Christians Only.

[Adstar]

Almost all of the UN/Nato/Whatever soldiers in WW2, Korea, vietnam, etc. were christian. The pilots who dropped the A-bombs were christian. The men who built the bombs, and the planes that dropped them, were christians.

Oh millions upon millions of them professed to be Christians and many of them truly believed they where Christians. But they had been deceived by the churches of this world who serve the satanic powers that be. The beasts harlot and her daughters.

Matthew 7
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

Luke 6
45 A good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart[a] brings forth evil. For out of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaks.46 “But why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do the things which I say?

1 John 3
22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. 23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment.

There are hundreds of solider cemeteries with million of white crosses neatly aligned in rows and they are all doomed.

Your statement is pure immature bullshit.

Most supposed "christians" react the same way to the Word of God. it is foolishness to them. But to those who embrace it, it is the door to eternal life with The God of Abraham.



All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[c20H25N3o]

c20: did you have your children before you turn to religion, or after.

I became a Christian before they were born.

peace

c20

 

[Adstar]

Because the US is the biggest offender of religion gone haywire, in a modern developed nation. Hence the comparision. And if secular states are 'faulty' as you put it, why is society in secular countries better off than that of all nations with strong religious beliefs? I still haven't really seen a theist attempt to answer this directly.

Well the argument is irrelevant to me? Both fail.

But i think you are falsely raising the level of secularist nations. China is a secular nation and it is more anti-Christian than most Islamic states. Their people do not have a better standard of living than the USA. Neither does North Korea another purely secularist nation.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[KennyJC]

Well the argument is irrelevant to me? Both fail.

But i think you are falsely raising the level of secularist nations. China is a secular nation and it is more anti-Christian than most Islamic states. Their people do not have a better standard of living than the USA. Neither does North Korea another purely secularist nation.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

China is not a good example as it is merely an emerging economy. That is why I don't include Brazil in any of my examples of religion contributing to social ills. I'm talking about modern well off nations such as Europe, Austrailia, Japan etc. Secularism appears to do a good job in reducing social dysfunction. It hardly lives up to the anarchy painted by theists when saying a secular nation would be chaos as God would not influence people away from such things. When in fact if you see the way religion plays its role in the US along with the social ills, it's good circumstantial evidence at least, that religion does more harm than good.

I believe it is a convincing argument that secularism gives some common sense to it's citiziens and they are more likely to stay away from things like crime, abortion, suicide, etc... Funnily enough, all the things religion tells us are wrong...

 

[(Q)]

Tony Blair is a Christian with 'religious beliefs' but he doesn't ever promote it and doesn't let it interfere with running a country.

You don't know that. In fact, it may very well have been a faith-based decision to join Bush in his war efforts. And of course, he would never admit to such a thing, just as other theists didn't admit censorship of books in school libraries or same sex marriages.

Does Christianity approve of homosexuality? No!

Yes, and as a Christian, you too must follow that lack of approval for the same reasons.

You wouldn't care about their personal beliefs if you were offered choice though?

Personal beliefs? What's that?

You just stated what you didnt want them to have i.e. religious beliefs. So what would you propose that you can just bet I wont agree with?

It wouldn't matter what is proposed. The fact remains that if you are a Christian, you must follow whatever Christians decide to propose, whether it be censorship of books or the denial of same sex marriage or whatever.

 

[SnakeLord]

I have four kids aged from 12 to 5. I am proud when they come home with knowledge of other religions because it helps them to understand some of the traditions that their friends are part of. I remember being particulary proud of my 7 yr olds attempt at drawing a hindu god with its many arms and strange features.

While I don't buy a word you say, that's altogether fine given that you're safe in the knowledge that English schools will push christianity, (of which you are a follower of, and undoubtedly your children are forced followers of - at least to the degree where you push the belief into their growing brains), majorly over other religious beliefs.

However, there simply is no need for it - especially given it's bias nature. I understand that it has to be bias - you simply wouldn't have the time in the day to teach kids every religious belief - from satanism to flying spaghetti monsterism - but without doing so your childs views are being limited to a handful of religions that for some reason are considered more.. "real", or somehow more worthy of attention. Of course it's a numbers game, and views are pushed across as some kind of reality based on how many followers it has.

Let it be said that I have never heard or seen of 5 year old children being taught about scientology or satanism.

Might I ask if your views would change if your childs school spent the most time teaching, and indeed 'promoting', satanism?

When my daughter at least has the ability to properly read, study and digest religious texts then she can go and research by herself. I see no need, and I resent that people think they have the right to push a certain religious view upon the mind of someone who was just a few years beforehand in nappies.

I didn't feel a need to go down the school and demand that my children are not exposed to such fairytale nonsense.

I do. Voila, we're different.

I have nothing to be afraid of.

It's not about fear. That's a rather large mistake in your thinking.

It seems to me far more extremist and fundamentalist to segregate your children in case of what they might hear.

Actually it's worked out great.. While other kids go home and tell their parents all about their day learning how god drowned many naughty people, my daughter learns vastly more important things - extra English, maths. That's probably why she's far in advance of all the other children.

Sticking them in an opaque plastic bubble with fluffy lining may appear to be 'doing the best for your kids' but I would rather they just rough and tumble it with the rest and form their own opinions from everything that is presented to them.

She still has the right to form her own opinions, but what's the rush? Can religious opinions not wait until she's like.. a tiny bit older than 6?

Kids make up their own minds about stuff and thats the beauty of it.

Generally made a lot harder to do when teachers and parents spend the child's 'learning years' shoving a whole heap of shit down their throats. The majority of religious people are only religious because their parents brought them up in that religion.

 

[(Q)]

Oh millions upon millions of them professed to be Christians and many of them truly believed they where Christians. But they had been deceived by the churches of this world who serve the satanic powers that be.

So, you created your own version of Christianity that suits your needs. That's no different than every other Christian. Welcome to the pack.

 

[c20H25N3o]

You don't know that. In fact, it may very well have been a faith-based decision to join Bush in his war efforts. And of course, he would never admit to such a thing, just as other theists didn't admit censorship of books in school libraries or same sex marriages.

I was refering to schools teaching ethos as that was the context. My kids go to an ordinary state school where they teach kids about all religions with no bias to either.

Yes, and as a Christian, you too must follow that lack of approval [of homosexuality] for the same reasons.

My lack of approval comes about because it would undo the things I hope will happen such as becoming a grandad and having a large family with lots of shiny little faces running around. Homosexuality does not promote what I believe to be condusive to the family structure. I guess that is probably the underlying reasons behind God's lack of approval as well but I have not been coerced into that way of thinking. It just comes naturally to me.

Personal beliefs? What's that?

Convictions held by an individual. Stop playing dumb.

It wouldn't matter what is proposed. The fact remains that if you are a Christian, you must follow whatever Christians decide to propose, whether it be censorship of books or the denial of same sex marriage or whatever.

This is laughable. I do not follow what 'Christians' decide to propose. What makes you think that I would? I just try to live my life using the intelligence I was born with. Man, if I thought that my salvation depended on following what other Christians decided I should follow, I would be well and truly screwed. I quite openly say I smoke pot. Hardly following the usual Christian outlook on the subject is it?

peace

c20

 

[c20H25N3o]

While I don't buy a word you say...

Then there is no further discussion from me to you. I am not a liar. More than prepared to have an 'open minded' discussion however if you are?

peace

c20

 

[(Q)]

My lack of approval comes about because it would undo the things I hope will happen such as becoming a grandad and having a large family with lots of shiny little faces running around.

That is irrelavent. As a Christian, if that's what you claim to be, you must follow the decisions of Christianity regardless of your own personal desires.

Homosexuality does not promote what I believe to be condusive to the family structure.

It doesn't matter what you personally believe. it matters only what Christianity tells you to believe.

Convictions held by an individual. Stop playing dumb.

I'm not playing dumb, explain yourself.

I do not follow what 'Christians' decide to propose. What makes you think that I would?

Simple, you are a Christian and you must follow what Christians decide to follow.

Man, if I thought that my salvation depended on following what other Christians decided I should follow, I would be well and truly screwed.

Then, you are no Christian. You have simply made up your own religion based on Christianity. In other words, you made up your own religion to suit your needs.

 

[c20H25N3o]

Simple, you are a Christian and you must follow what Christians decide to follow.

And how do Christians decide what to follow? Oh yeah...

“You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment. And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbour as yourself. On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets” (Mt 22: 37-40).

Why does Jesus say 'the second is like it' ?

Because it is. Everyone knows how they want to be treated, it doesnt need a whole set of rules, whys and wherefores, it is just common sense. Not sure I could make up my own religion based upon that simple teaching of Jesus.

Seems to me that you refuse to give people claiming to be Christians the benefit of the doubt based upon your usual experience. Is that not close minded for a free thinker?

EDIT: Your views seem very similiar to the racist elements that propogate these forums i.e. because a large bunch of blacks / mexicans are 'seen' to be violent / thieves etc, then all must be bad and irradicated from society.

peace

c20

 

[Medicine*Woman]

You don't know that. In fact, it may very well have been a faith-based decision to join Bush in his war efforts. And of course, he would never admit to such a thing, just as other theists didn't admit censorship of books in school libraries or same sex marriages.

I was refering to schools teaching ethos as that was the context. My kids go to an ordinary state school where they teach kids about all religions with no bias to either.

Yes, and as a Christian, you too must follow that lack of approval [of homosexuality] for the same reasons.

My lack of approval comes about because it would undo the things I hope will happen such as becoming a grandad and having a large family with lots of shiny little faces running around. Homosexuality does not promote what I believe to be condusive to the family structure. I guess that is probably the underlying reasons behind God's lack of approval as well but I have not been coerced into that way of thinking. It just comes naturally to me.

Personal beliefs? What's that?

Convictions held by an individual. Stop playing dumb.

It wouldn't matter what is proposed. The fact remains that if you are a Christian, you must follow whatever Christians decide to propose, whether it be censorship of books or the denial of same sex marriage or whatever.

This is laughable. I do not follow what 'Christians' decide to propose. What makes you think that I would? I just try to live my life using the intelligence I was born with. Man, if I thought that my salvation depended on following what other Christians decided I should follow, I would be well and truly screwed. I quite openly say I smoke pot. Hardly following the usual Christian outlook on the subject is it?

peace

c20

*************
M*W: In your last paragraph, you say that you "do not follow what 'Christians' decide to propose." No, you vehemently deny it! Yet, in your third paragraph, you state, "Yes, and as a Christian, you too must follow that lack of approval [of homosexuality] for the same reasons. Which is it? Do you follow the Christian crowd or not?

Then, in your fourth paragraph, you state, "My lack of approval comes about because it would undo the things I hope will happen such as becoming a grandad and having a large family with lots of shiny little faces running around. Homosexuality does not promote what I believe to be condusive to the family structure. I guess that is probably the underlying reasons behind God's lack of approval as well but I have not been coerced into that way of thinking. It just comes naturally to me."

Your "lack of approval" of homosexuality will not change the world, and it will not even change your children or grandchildren. And, you can have "lots of shiny little faces running around if, say, one or more of your children happened to be gay. But, hey, you might be able to have some influence on your die-hard Christian accomplices if you were more knowledgeable about it and, therefore, more accepting of what is natural biologically occuring sexual identification. More times than not, homosexuals marry and have children to fit into society's molds. Most homosexuals have a healthy family structure -- healthier than heterosexual family structure. I've seen many cases like this, and I commend them. Sexuality and sexual activities of the parents, whether homo- or hetero-, don't occupy their children's minds, at least it shouldn't. By the time they're old enough to understand sexual diversity, they've already accepted it as a normal, healthy part of life.

BTW, how do you know what "God's lack of approval" is "as well but I have not been coerced into that way of thinking? Did he tell you in a dream? Did he speak to you through the TV? Or did you learn it from other Christians? Or did you have a vision when you were stoned on weed? Your using the word "coerced" shows your homophobia. Then you said, "It just comes naturally to me." What is natural for you may be vile, filthy and perverted, to the another.

Then, in paragraph eight, you stated, "[/I]I just try to live my life using the intelligence I was born with."

I'm sorry to hear that. Like all of us, you were born with absolutely no knowledge of anything and, obviously, you have never learned anything.

 

[c20H25N3o]

*************
M*W: In your last paragraph, you say that you "do not follow what 'Christians' decide to propose." No, you vehemently deny it! Yet, in your third paragraph, you state, "Yes, and as a Christian, you too must follow that lack of approval [of homosexuality] for the same reasons. Which is it? Do you follow the Christian crowd or not?

Then, in your fourth paragraph, you state, "My lack of approval comes about because it would undo the things I hope will happen such as becoming a grandad and having a large family with lots of shiny little faces running around. Homosexuality does not promote what I believe to be condusive to the family structure. I guess that is probably the underlying reasons behind God's lack of approval as well but I have not been coerced into that way of thinking. It just comes naturally to me."

Your "lack of approval" of homosexuality will not change the world, and it will not even change your children or grandchildren. And, you can have "lots of shiny little faces running around if, say, one or more of your children happened to be gay. But, hey, you might be able to have some influence on your die-hard Christian accomplices if you were more knowledgeable about it and, therefore, more accepting of what is natural biologically occuring sexual identification. More times than not, homosexuals marry and have children to fit into society's molds. Most homosexuals have a healthy family structure -- healthier than heterosexual family structure. I've seen many cases like this, and I commend them. Sexuality and sexual activities of the parents, whether homo- or hetero-, don't occupy their children's minds, at least it shouldn't. By the time they're old enough to understand sexual diversity, they've already accepted it as a normal, healthy part of life.

BTW, how do you know what "God's lack of approval" is "as well but I have not been coerced into that way of thinking? Did he tell you in a dream? Did he speak to you through the TV? Or did you learn it from other Christians? Or did you have a vision when you were stoned on weed? Your using the word "coerced" shows your homophobia. Then you said, "It just comes naturally to me." What is natural for you may be vile, filthy and perverted, to the another.

Then, in paragraph eight, you stated, "[/I]I just try to live my life using the intelligence I was born with."

I'm sorry to hear that. Like all of us, you were born with absolutely no knowledge of anything and, obviously, you have never learned anything.

Hi M*W - long time no debate Saddened and sorry to hear of your illness btw.

Unfortunately my words got a little confused with (Q)'s words hence the contradictory nature. I didnt seperate out the posters comments very well. The third paragraph was quoting something (Q) had said. Sorry for the confusion.

Do I follow the Christian crowd? Well I dont know who the Christian crowd are to be honest. I do not go to church because I find it to be a largely dead place hung up on traditionalism and special days and ceremony.

You Say : Your "lack of approval" of homosexuality will not change the world, and it will not even change your children or grandchildren.

It's just a personal view. I am not trying to change the world or even impart that view. People make up their own minds about it and people will be what they are.

You say: Most homosexuals have a healthy family structure -- healthier than heterosexual family structure. I've seen many cases like this, and I commend them.

Please provide verifiable examples. You seem to be promoting homosexuality as a healthier option to family structure than heterosexual relations. If this was the case why hasn't nature given two people of the same sex the ability to have kids? What you are saying flies in the face of everything I know so appreciate that I will need some convincing.

You say: BTW, how do you know what "God's lack of approval" is

Because to love my neighbour as I love myself which is 'like' loving God with all your heart etc means that I couldn't have sexual relations with somebody the same sex as me because I would not want someone to have sex with me who was the same sex as me.

I am homophobic but that's because I have only ever had bad experiences with homosexual men as a kid growing up. I think over time I have become more liberal in my thinking but the experiences of the past really shook me up. I thought I was to be raped in one case. Having said that, I have a very good working relationship with a couple of gay fellas and they are nice as pie. they wouldn't bring their sexuality or sexual conduct into the workplace anymore than I would mine. I guess there are nice gay people and horrible gay people. Unfortunately the horrible ones have made me less trrusting all round. i'll get over it no doubt. Try not to judge me too harshly on the subject.

You say : What is natural for you may be vile, filthy and perverted, to the another.

And your point is? Like I said, I am not trying to change anyone. Each to their own and all that.

You say (in response to my paragraph saying I just try to live my life using the intelligence i was born with) : I'm sorry to hear that. Like all of us, you were born with absolutely no knowledge of anything and, obviously, you have never learned anything.

Perhaps I should have said "I just try to live my life keeping a clear conscious regarding my own conduct according to my own values." Those values include not seeking my own way. The 'obviously you havn't learned anything' statement is your opinion, seems a little vitriolic but whatever.

peace

c20

 

[GeniusNProgress]

This thread is for Christians only.
It is a place where we can come together and discuss our doctrines and its relevance to society, its relevance to science, and its contribution towards the development of Mankind.

Note:

1. Only mainstream Protestant Denominations
2. Roman Catholic and Orthodox
3. Atheists can just read but must not contribute. Preferable that they
dont visit this thread at all.
4. Mormons are not allowed.
Topics can be started by anyone, about anything that you feel we as Christians must be aware of.

The Creator Loves You.

My response is to the comment that Mormons are not allowed. Do not ignorantly create something with 'Christians Only' and deny other true Christians from being able to comment. My advice to you is this, study the basis of your religion and foundations before judging who is and who isn't a Christian.

 

[GeniusNProgress]

Yes, and as a Christian, you too must follow that lack of approval [of homosexuality] for the same reasons.

My lack of approval comes about because it would undo the things I hope will happen such as becoming a grandad and having a large family with lots of shiny little faces running around. Homosexuality does not promote what I believe to be condusive to the family structure. I guess that is probably the underlying reasons behind God's lack of approval as well but I have not been coerced into that way of thinking. It just comes naturally to me.

Personal beliefs? What's that?

Convictions held by an individual. Stop playing dumb.

It wouldn't matter what is proposed. The fact remains that if you are a Christian, you must follow whatever Christians decide to propose, whether it be censorship of books or the denial of same sex marriage or whatever.



c20[/QUOTE]

This discussion is pointless when there is no mutual understanding of what a Christian is and is 'supposed' to do or follow. The discretions of Christianity views or beliefs being the underlying motivation for Bush's decision of war and the hidden mission to create more democratic nations is debatable. As a Christian I don't feel obligated to follow the mass of so called other "christians" in their viewpoints on political, social, or domestic issues. I, myself form my own opinions on the facts presented before me and research in order to come to, what in my mind, is a factual and valid point of view. My faith plays a part in my life in a large way but as far as the good and peaceful existence of my nation I don't let the fact that others have differing religious beliefs conflict in making necessary decisions for my community. I believe political decisions should be formed with the well being of the population in mind. The truth is Christians in America need to come to a realization that we live in a society that's a melting pot of cultures and religions. That when making necessary decisions we shouldn't put our faith above those of others. My God will judge what I've done in my life and will not punish me for others evil doings. Therefore I do not feel obligated to keep other Americans from living out their lives and I find I have no place to judge what they will do. People will live their lives how they want. And there will never be a time where everyone agrees on one single thing so my advice to focus on how you live your life and not others. And this post is addressed to everyone.

 

[c20H25N3o]

... And this post is addressed to everyone.

You only said what I have been saying only a little more concisely

peace

c20

 

[SnakeLord]

Then there is no further discussion from me to you. I am not a liar. More than prepared to have an 'open minded' discussion however if you are?

If it were true that you were more than prepared to have an open minded discussion, you wouldn't have ignored the entirety of my post on the basis that I do not instantly believe that you would be proud if your children came home having learnt about other religions, (well, to the degree that you would certainly be bias towards other religions, and that the 'pride' would be replaced with absolute resentment if they came home drawing pics of satan and talking about satan worship).

Of course, you could have just ignored that and got to the rest of the post instead of ignoring all of the post except for 8 words.

Tell you what, I'll save you the hassle and just respond to my own post on your behalf..

"Yes, if my children were being taught satanism as an obligatory part of their education and had to take part in assemblies singing songs and hymns related to satan etc, I would have them out of that school quicker than a whippet with a bum full of dynamite."

Be honest, what would you rather your children be doing at school? Being taught fantasy bullshit or being taught about real stuff and important stuff?

 

[MarcAC]

[C]hemical one, it has been quite satisfying entertainment looking at your discourse(s) with some individuals. I wish I could put it like you at times. Have a good one.

 

[Adstar]

Oh millions upon millions of them professed to be Christians and many of them truly believed they where Christians. But they had been deceived by the churches of this world who serve the satanic powers that be.

So, you created your own version of Christianity that suits your needs. That's no different than every other Christian. Welcome to the pack.

No i follow Jesus and believe His words and teachings. They follow the twists of truth produced by theologians. They serve themselves by killing their enemies and saving their own lives by doing so. Pacifism never serves a pacifist. i am not served by my refusal to kill i am disadvantaged by my refusal to kill.

Jesus made it very clear on this issue of warfare i am following His will, they follow the traditions of men.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Adstar]

My lack of approval comes about because it would undo the things I hope will happen such as becoming a grandad and having a large family with lots of shiny little faces running around.

That is irrelavent. As a Christian, if that's what you claim to be, you must follow the decisions of Christianity regardless of your own personal desires.

Homosexuality does not promote what I believe to be condusive to the family structure.

It doesn't matter what you personally believe. it matters only what Christianity tells you to believe.


I do not follow what 'Christians' decide to propose. What makes you think that I would?

Simple, you are a Christian and you must follow what Christians decide to follow.

We are to follow Jesus and believe Him. No other people.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days