Thread For Christians Only.

[c20H25N3o]

Fair enough ... but do you also attack science for nuclear advancement because of the potential abuse that comes with it? Is scientific advancement also a great evil?

It is for the Christians who ultimately have already abused it. It was Christians who dropped the bomb.

So because people did this and claimed that 'God' told them to, you now say that all 'faith' is corrupt and religion the scourge of society! If that isn't irrational I don't know what is!
A sword can still be an object of beauty even if it has been stolen and used to slay innocents and this is what we have, 'faith' stolen and used to slay innocents. Just as your nuke can blow up an asteroid, so the sword of truth can save many.

peace

c20

 

[KennyJC]

So it seems to me that the problem is neither with science or religion but rather it is with individuals who are happy to corrupt either to suit their own selfish ambition. I still do not see how either can be negated because of the potential for abuse.

I still don't think they are equal by comparison. In both science and religion, it is not science that creates the insane or results in the dysfunction of logic. It is this which creates abuse of all things wether they be science or not. I could pick up a rock and smash someone over the head because they belong to a different religion to me, but that is as equally as stupid as using nukes for the same purpose.

So do you take away science? Or take away religion? I think perhaps time will tell, and I can only see one winner. Hurrah for the age of knowledge.

Do you disagree that such weapons would be at least as dangerous in the hands of a secular nation?

In the example where I may be glad that the nuke hits an asteroid, by the same token you may be glad of the newly converted Christian who takes you in and helps you recover after you have been mugged and left for dead.

Yes, just as I'd be glad if an atheist did. But if he started quoting verses from the bible I would have thought I had died and gone to hell

 

[(Q)]

So because people did this and claimed that 'God' told them to, you now say that all 'faith' is corrupt and religion the scourge of society!

You have to admit, it's very strong evidence in favor of scourgedom. But I'm not as interested in irradicating religion as the scourge of socitety because of a little corruption as opposed to the simple blind faith in religious fantasy which drives the decision making process for peoples actions.

Just as your nuke can blow up an asteroid, so the sword of truth can save many.

Whose truth? Saved from what?

 

[Qorl]

I said - Christians Only Thread !!!!!

READ MY INSTRUCTIONS.

I WILL NOT BE REPLYING TO ANY ATHEIST OR ANY NON CHRISTIAN.

THANK YOU.

THE CREATOR LOVES YOU. !!!!!

When the love is in question there is no limits!

 

[(Q)]

I WILL NOT BE REPLYING TO ANY ATHEIST OR ANY NON CHRISTIAN.

That has evidently become a lie.

 

[c20H25N3o]

So because people did this and claimed that 'God' told them to, you now say that all 'faith' is corrupt and religion the scourge of society!

You have to admit, it's very strong evidence in favor of scourgedom. But I'm not as interested in irradicating religion as the scourge of socitety because of a little corruption as opposed to the simple blind faith in religious fantasy which drives the decision making process for peoples actions.

Just as your nuke can blow up an asteroid, so the sword of truth can save many.

Whose truth? Saved from what?

So how do you tackle your little problem? Let's do this as objectively as possible.

You have stated that you are concerned that religious belief will drive my decision making and the resultant actions will be to my own detriment.

I have to refute that because I cannot 'see' any visible signs of harm. For all intents and purposes I live a pretty average life with no more or less problems than anyone I see around me.

You really need to qualify your claim that my faith will lead me to making decisions that are actually detrimental to me. In return I'll be honest and open minded in my response, agreeing with you where it would be blatently foolish to do otherwise.
If you can show me that I am in effect self-harming or indeed harming others I will concede each and every point graciously.

peace

c20

 

[(Q)]

You have stated that you are concerned that religious belief will drive my decision making and the resultant actions will be to my own detriment.

No, to everyone elses detriment.

For all intents and purposes I live a pretty average life with no more or less problems than anyone I see around me.

But your decision making process will be influenced by your religious beliefs, regardless of whether or not the decision is the correct one. Your decisions, based on your faith, may be in favor of teaching creation in schools, or not allowing same sex marriages, or censorship of certain books in school libraries.

Suppose you decided to run for mayor of your city and you made your decisions based on your faith.

Many such examples affect the lives of others who may not share your beliefs.

 

[c20H25N3o]

But your decision making process will be influenced by your religious beliefs, regardless of whether or not the decision is the correct one. Your decisions, based on your faith, may be in favor of teaching creation in schools, or not allowing same sex marriages, or censorship of certain books in school libraries.

I'm not into censorship and I dont really care what they teach my kids in school as long as they get something out of it i.e. good literacy and numeracy. If my kids turn out gay then they turn out gay. I'm a firm believer in 'if you cant get round it and you cant get over it then you better just go through it'.
I dont have all these hang ups as you do about these issues. I have opinions, just not issues and I dont seek my own way regarding my opinions.

Suppose you decided to run for mayor of your city and you made your decisions based on your faith.

So elect a new mayor? One whos values match your own. What are those values? What do you want your mayor to 'do'? And I make a fine distinction between what do you want him to 'do' as opposed to 'not do'.

Whatever you want your mayor to do, I would wager that some people from all walks of life would not share those ideals with you. I may. I may not. What are they?

peace

c20

 

[(Q)]

I'm not into censorship and I dont really care what they teach my kids in school as long as they get something out of it i.e. good literacy and numeracy.

Funny, most parents care a great deal about what their children learn in school, and are quite upset when decisions as to what their children can or cannot learn are based on someones religious views.

If my kids turn out gay then they turn out gay.

That would their choice and you would be an understanding parent if that were the case. Does your religion agree with your views?

I dont have all these hang ups as you do about these issues.

These are serious matters and are far from being merely 'hang ups.' Do you not care what happens in your city or neighborhood?

So elect a new mayor? One whos values match your own. What are those values? What do you want your mayor to 'do'?

To not have religious beliefs cloud or interfere with their decision making process. Quite simple really.

Whatever you want your mayor to do, I would wager that some people from all walks of life would not share those ideals with you.

Yes, mostly those with religious beliefs. And I'd wager to bet you'd be one of them.

 

[c20H25N3o]

Funny, most parents care a great deal about what their children learn in school, and are quite upset when decisions as to what their children can or cannot learn are based on someones religious views.

Schools here in the UK are largely secular so this wouldn't be an issue for me. We have faith based schools for parents who require it and technical schools for those that dont. Tony Blair is a Christian with 'religious beliefs' but he doesn't ever promote it and doesn't let it interfere with running a country. Religious beliefs arent the problem. Its the crazies like Bush that are the problem

That would their choice and you would be an understanding parent if that were the case. Does your religion agree with your views?

Does Christianity approve of homosexuality? No! Would I be happy that my kids were gay? No! Are the two related? No!

I would be disappointed that my kids were gay because of the whole grandad thing being shot out the window. Selfish I know but whatever.


These are serious matters and are far from being merely 'hang ups.' Do you not care what happens in your city or neighborhood?

I am fortunate to have a fairly intelligent guy running this country. I guess youv'e brought that home to me.

To not have religious beliefs cloud or interfere with their decision making process. Quite simple really.

You wouldn't care about their personal beliefs if you were offered choice though?

Yes, mostly those with religious beliefs. And I'd wager to bet you'd be one of them.

I have religious beliefs. Why would I be one of them? What were the things that you want to see 'done'? You never said. You just stated what you didnt want them to have i.e. religious beliefs. So what would you propose that you can just bet I wont agree with? Try me

peace

c20

 

[KennyJC]

schools here in the UK are largely secular so this wouldn't be an issue for me.

I am surprised to learn that you are from the UK, such as me. I suppose I guessed that you were a yank as you had strong christian beliefs.

What I want to ask is why you still maintain these beliefs if you were educated as a christian/catholic, like I was. I have many memories which on hindsight i look back on and realise what my teachers and priests told me was bullshit. I was forced to sing 'hymns' twice per week, and often would have to go to church to listen to the service and even for some reason had to tell my sins to the priest. I ended up making up stuff such as "I didnt tidy my room when my mother asked me to". And I grew up with this notion that disbelieving in the christian god was a sin, and vividly remember the first time I told someone that this could all not be true.

Remember, this is a secular nation by todays standards, yet it was such a hurdle to overcome. Why have you not been able to overcome it? Why have you fallen into believing into this set of rules they taught us falsely in classrooms?

 

[c20H25N3o]

I am surprised to learn that you are from the UK, such as me. I suppose I guessed that you were a yank as you had strong christian beliefs.

What I want to ask is why you still maintain these beliefs if you were educated as a christian/catholic, like I was. I have many memories which on hindsight i look back on and realise what my teachers and priests told me was bullshit. I was forced to sing 'hymns' twice per week, and often would have to go to church to listen to the service and even for some reason had to tell my sins to the priest. I ended up making up stuff such as "I didnt tidy my room when my mother asked me to". And I grew up with this notion that disbelieving in the christian god was a sin, and vividly remember the first time I told someone that this could all not be true.

Remember, this is a secular nation by todays standards, yet it was such a hurdle to overcome. Why have you not been able to overcome it? Why have you fallen into believing into this set of rules they taught us falsely in classrooms?

I didn't believe it when I was young. I do now. I dont have 'religous hangups'. I have hangups sure but these are the usual stuff one encounters all the time. The message of the bible had not been adulterated for me. I didn't have to go to confession and we didnt go to church. I cannot remember when I last went in a church come to that.
There is nothing for me to 'overcome' as you put it. Nothing for me to rebel against. I believe in God. I believe in Jesus and I believe He was the messiah. The message of Jesus is to me a very powerful message. Nothing to do with rules and hail mary's. Nothing at all.

peace

c20

 

[SnakeLord]

Schools here in the UK are largely secular so this wouldn't be an issue for me. We have faith based schools for parents who require it and technical schools for those that dont. Tony Blair is a Christian with 'religious beliefs' but he doesn't ever promote it and doesn't let it interfere with running a country. Religious beliefs arent the problem. Its the crazies like Bush that are the problem

I take it you do not have children. I have had to take my child out of classes and assembly because the school would have it that their religious indoctrination attempts are part of the school curriculum. I wouldn't mind so much if she was 15, but she's 5, (6 now).

It might not bother you, or be an issue to you if you don't have children, but one day it just might be.

 

[Adstar]

Perhaps I should have worded it differently... A nation that has strongly held religious beleifs... such as America... As opposted so a nation that is more secularized, such as Europe.

Nice way of avoiding my point though.

Who cares if they hold strongly held religious beliefs? if their religious beliefs are not in alignment with the Will of God then to call them Gods nations is a twist of the truth. I did not avoid the question i corrected a serious misconception. As for comparing a nation run by false faith and one run by "secular ideals" is not my concern. both are faulty.



All Praise The Ancient Of Days

PS: i am not here to support any nation on earth or their forms of government. All governments on earth are in league with satan, actually those that claim to be God centered are my greatest enemies because they are far greater deceivers of Christians that purely "secular" states.

 

[Adstar]

Fair enough ... but do you also attack science for nuclear advancement because of the potential abuse that comes with it? Is scientific advancement also a great evil?

It is for the Christians who ultimately have already abused it. It was Christians who dropped the bomb.

Nope. Christians would not even be in the factories making the bombs. let alone fly the planes that dropped them. Christians love their enemies and do not resist an evil person. Our weapons are not carnal but spiritual. We are here to be used by God to save people eternally not to kill them.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Adstar]

Quote by KennyJC
I am surprised to learn that you are from the UK, such as me. I suppose I guessed that you were a yank as you had strong christian beliefs.

What is this fixation with the USA??? 7% of the worlds population living on 5% of the worlds land mass? Anyone would think that Americans make up 95% of the world’s population. Man i am sorry but i am really getting frustrated with the USA religion thing. Most Christians live outside the USA peoples get used to it.

Hey I am not an american either.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Hapsburg]

Nope. Christians would not even be in the factories making the bombs. let alone fly the planes that dropped them. Christians love their enemies and do not resist an evil person. Our weapons are not carnal but spiritual. We are here to be used by God to save people eternally not to kill them.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

Almost all of the UN/Nato/Whatever soldiers in WW2, Korea, vietnam, etc. were christian. The pilots who dropped the A-bombs were christian. The men who built the bombs, and the planes that dropped them, were christians.
Your statement is pure immature bullshit.

 

[KennyJC]

What is this fixation with the USA??? 7% of the worlds population living on 5% of the worlds land mass? Anyone would think that Americans make up 95% of the world’s population. Man i am sorry but i am really getting frustrated with the USA religion thing. Most Christians live outside the USA peoples get used to it.

Hey I am not an american either.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

Because the US is the biggest offender of religion gone haywire, in a modern developed nation. Hence the comparision. And if secular states are 'faulty' as you put it, why is society in secular countries better off than that of all nations with strong religious beliefs? I still haven't really seen a theist attempt to answer this directly.

 

[c20H25N3o]

I take it you do not have children. I have had to take my child out of classes and assembly because the school would have it that their religious indoctrination attempts are part of the school curriculum. I wouldn't mind so much if she was 15, but she's 5, (6 now).

It might not bother you, or be an issue to you if you don't have children, but one day it just might be.

I have four kids aged from 12 to 5. I am proud when they come home with knowledge of other religions because it helps them to understand some of the traditions that their friends are part of. I remember being particulary proud of my 7 yr olds attempt at drawing a hindu god with its many arms and strange features. I didn't feel a need to go down the school and demand that my children are not exposed to such fairytale nonsense. I have nothing to be afraid of. I dont have issues about these things.
It seems to me far more extremist and fundamentalist to segregate your children in case of what they might hear. Sticking them in an opaque plastic bubble with fluffy lining may appear to be 'doing the best for your kids' but I would rather they just rough and tumble it with the rest and form their own opinions from everything that is presented to them. Kids make up their own minds about stuff and thats the beauty of it.

peace

c20

 

[audible]

c20: did you have your children before you turn to religion, or after.