or maybe nero's wife would have been instrumental in the deaths of millions if she had lived.....or maybe her pet dog was....
The Riddle of Epicurus
- Thread starter Zero Mass
- Start date
Tiberius1701
Registered Senior Member
Lori_7 said:
If God were all powerful then he could make a person who knew what it was like to have a broken heart, even though they never had. By saying this is impossible, you are saying that God is not all powerful.
No, it would be choosing not to make them so they never would have existed. You can't take away something from someone that never existed. That's like saying people without kids are commiting child abuse because they are not allowing those new children to exist. I'm sorry, but your point here is just plain comical.
Do you really believe that there are people who think that there is a God and a divine Jesus, who simply choose not to be saved? Do you really believe that people can choose what they believe or not? You can't help whether or not you believe something. You can choose to act like you believed something, but whether or not you really believe something is based on your experience and how it has convinced you of various things. That's like saying that you yourself could cimply "choose" to believe that Klingons are real and then you would really believe it deep down. There is no choice in what we believe or don't believe, it simply comes to us. You yourself aren't choosing to believe in God, you believe it because you have become convinced of it through your experiences. The belief that the people going to hell under your world view are "choosing" to is just a rationalization to make the obviously unjust worldview seem just.
Tiberius1701 said:
How could you know without ever having one? You say, he could implant the knowledge in your head. I'm asking then, how would you know that the knowledge that He implanted was actually the truth? Maybe it would not really be the truth, but just what He wanted you to believe. I'm not saying that what you are suggesting is impossible. What I am saying is that it is not the best way. God always chooses the best way....the perfect way actually...for us. See, the whole point is that God does not want us to be spoon fed information, but to learn from experience. Knowledge comes from personal experience, not from rote memory, not from a book, not from someone else's experience. He doesn't want to just tell us "this is how it is and this is what you should believe because I say so"...He want's you to actually understand and decide what to believe on your own through your own experience. Don't you see that what you are suggesting would do nothing but create a bunch of mindless thoughtless unquestioning robots?
Then again, who is to say that it would change anything? After all, we can all look around and see the horrible effects of sin in this world...all the pain, suffering, and death. And do we stop sinning? No. Do people still choose to do evil? Yea, all the time. So apparently, He could very well implant all of this knowledge of the horrible consequences of sin into our brains and we would still choose to sin. After all, it's in our nature...the propensity to sin is encoded genetically into our flesh. So then you say, what if Adam and Eve knew of the consequence of sin... what if they new of the horrible effects of it because He implanted these "fake memories" in their heads. Wouldn't they have chosen not to sin? The answer is apparently no, because they were told by God Himself that if they ate of the tree of knowledge that they would surely die. Satan comes along and says what? "God's a liar...you won't die, you'll get to be like Him because of what you will learn". And they ate. So if God had implanted the fake memories in their heads, all Satan would have to do is come along and say "God's a liar...what He implanted in your head is a lie...you won't die, you'll get to be like Him because of what you will learn". It really wouldn't change the scenario that much at all. At least this way, we know that what we're experiencing is real and that it is true.
Well I'm glad that I could give you a chuckle...if there's one thing I'm good for....
He can take away the person's opportunity to live. He can take away the person's opportunity to trangress His law. I'm sorry but I'm a Christian, and what you're suggesting doesn't even sound right to me. It's sounds...very...Nazi-ish.
I mean, for this parent to not allow those new children to exist simply because He knows that at some point in their lives they will disobey Him, or make an honest mistake even? That just sounds really wrong to me.
If "pre-programming" us wouldn't keep us from challenging Him and His law, then the only thing that would keep us from doing it is not creating us in the first place. To only create a species that would never choose to transgress His law would be taking away our free will. Simply because it is apparent that we are not that species. I don't think myself or anyone else any better or smarter than Adam or Eve...rather apparently given a good deal of my behaviour and choices. If He were to create a different species...one that would never think to challenge Him...to never seek knowledge and understanding through their own experience...to never ask for "proof" of what He says is true...it would be a species very different from our own. And as much as it may suck to live in a world of sin, I would think that this proposed alternative species would not be nearly as glorious as we are, and will be. They would merely be puppets...drones. I don't blame God for not wanting to commune with a bunch of unquestioning, unthinking drones who lack knowledge and understanding of Him and His law...I don't blame Him a bit.
Yes, I most certainly do believe it, I've lived it myself, and I see it around me every day of my life. Certainly you know of people who live their entire lives so deeply in denial about certain things that you would think them to be insane...blind...deaf...dumb...not to see the obvious right in front of their face. And not something that is insignificant, but something that is absolutely ruining their lives...causing them so much strife and grief and pain and sickness...something that is killing them! And they look the other way, and deny, deny, deny, until they allow it to take them to their graves.
I believe in God because of my experiences yes...I asked for proof and He gave it to me in spades. But I did not have to ask for it. Many, many people live through the same things that I did, and suffer the same way that I did, and they do not ask for the truth from God...they do not ask for what I asked for. It is definitely a choice. Some people just do not want to know the truth about Him. I didn't at one time in my life...I know what it feels like to not want to know. It's too consequential...it's too humbling...and it makes you afraid. You're afraid of Him....judgement...condemnation...what it will all mean for your life...your lifestyle. You look at "church people" and say "Good God, I'll have to turn into one of those? No way!" People don't realize that there is nothing to fear...that all of that perceived negativity comes from a lie...a deadly lie...that they choose to believe because it justifies their aversion to Him...an inherent one that is caused by the sin of our flesh. People don't want to know about their sin....they don't want to face it. But I tell you sincerely...please believe me...that there is NO condemnation from God...and that judgement is nothing more than the truth shown in the light of His love. God is love.
Love,
Lori
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Tiberius1701
Registered Senior Member
Lori,
When I said that your statement about not creating someone is denying them something seemed comical to me, I was trying to convey to you how far from my conception it was. In retrospect, it sounded very insensitive and I shouldn't have phrased it that way - sorry.
As for choosing beliefs, I know the type of person you're talking about. Those who just reject something because they don't want to believe it. But I think you're not putting yourself in other people's shoes very well. To many people, Christianity seems as far off from reality as Hinduism probably seems to you.
For instance, if you died and then found out that Hinduism had it right and you're going to pay for not being a Hindu during your life, would you think that was reasonable or fair? Then they would say, ah yes, but you lived in a world full of Hindu teachings and you rejected them all, so you should have nothing to complain about.
Of course, this would be unfair, for you did not grow up in a culture as familiar with Hinduism as with Christianity, so it probably just seems like some outside weird thing to you. We all have free will to choose between different options, but what we cannot control is our perception of the worthiness of those options. Maybe you could choose to live as an Islamist, but what you can't choose is your perception that Islam and Hinduism and Humanism are less true and less good of a choice. And, of course, we all choose what we believe to be the most beneficial choice.
So, by the same token, when I look at Christianity, I have a certain perception of it, not unlike your perception of Satanism. I can't help the fact that this is my impression. I can listen to the arguments of people like yourselves, read, explore, consider carefully, etc. But my experiences are not your experiences and so the perception that forms in me of the value of these different choices is going to be different than yours. It is this perception we have of the relative values between the different options that we cannot control - it's not that nonbelievers are people of malintent, as you suggest.
But instead of really placing yourself in my shoes, you are conceptualizing the situation as though I were like you but behaving differently. In other words, you imagine what you would have to be like to do and say the things I am doing, and you imagine a person who is rejecting what they "know" to be right. But this is not the case. I am a person who is following what I truely believe is the right, just, and moral course of action.
You are not a person who really knows that Hinduism or Budhism is the right way but are rejecting it out of arrogance, pride, or evil are you? Certainly not, and most non-Christians are likewise not as you paint them.
When I said that your statement about not creating someone is denying them something seemed comical to me, I was trying to convey to you how far from my conception it was. In retrospect, it sounded very insensitive and I shouldn't have phrased it that way - sorry.
As for choosing beliefs, I know the type of person you're talking about. Those who just reject something because they don't want to believe it. But I think you're not putting yourself in other people's shoes very well. To many people, Christianity seems as far off from reality as Hinduism probably seems to you.
For instance, if you died and then found out that Hinduism had it right and you're going to pay for not being a Hindu during your life, would you think that was reasonable or fair? Then they would say, ah yes, but you lived in a world full of Hindu teachings and you rejected them all, so you should have nothing to complain about.
Of course, this would be unfair, for you did not grow up in a culture as familiar with Hinduism as with Christianity, so it probably just seems like some outside weird thing to you. We all have free will to choose between different options, but what we cannot control is our perception of the worthiness of those options. Maybe you could choose to live as an Islamist, but what you can't choose is your perception that Islam and Hinduism and Humanism are less true and less good of a choice. And, of course, we all choose what we believe to be the most beneficial choice.
So, by the same token, when I look at Christianity, I have a certain perception of it, not unlike your perception of Satanism. I can't help the fact that this is my impression. I can listen to the arguments of people like yourselves, read, explore, consider carefully, etc. But my experiences are not your experiences and so the perception that forms in me of the value of these different choices is going to be different than yours. It is this perception we have of the relative values between the different options that we cannot control - it's not that nonbelievers are people of malintent, as you suggest.
But instead of really placing yourself in my shoes, you are conceptualizing the situation as though I were like you but behaving differently. In other words, you imagine what you would have to be like to do and say the things I am doing, and you imagine a person who is rejecting what they "know" to be right. But this is not the case. I am a person who is following what I truely believe is the right, just, and moral course of action.
You are not a person who really knows that Hinduism or Budhism is the right way but are rejecting it out of arrogance, pride, or evil are you? Certainly not, and most non-Christians are likewise not as you paint them.
Tiberius1701 said:
That's ok...it wasn't that insensitive. I wasn't offended at all. But thanks for the apology anyway...you seem very conscientious, and I like that.
Hinduism really doesn't seem so far off to me at all. Hinduism though is kind of the "opposite of" Christianity in a way...because Hinduism allows for all other religions and faiths to also be true. Which makes it a really bad example of what you're talking about...lol...but I still get your point.
While Hinduism is not exclusive at all, Christianity is completely exclusive...which is your point of contention here...but is also what made it stand out to me, when I was studying all of the major world religions. This exclusivity made me question it's validity more than any other religion that I studied. No other religion attests to God coming to earth in the form of a man. No other religion provides a Saviour in the form of God himself...or a Saviour at all...most others only provide doctrine that contains suggestions or rules for behaviour that is supposed to help you promote yourself...and provides nothing to be "saved" from. No other religion attests to this Holy Spirit and a personal relationship with God enabled through it...a communication by way of it between yourself and God Himself. No other religion attests to this spiritual rebirth that is no consequence of your own actions but only to seek God Himself, and so is a consequence of God's actions. All other religions attest to enlightenment being a consequence of things that you do yourself to achieve it. Most other religions promote controlling your behaviours and actions in life by your own will to achieve enlightenment, where as Christianity promotes completely giving up your will and your life to God in order to achieve enlightenment by His behaviours and actions presented to and through you...given this personal relationship that comes by rebirth and by His Spirit.
I grew up in a culture that for the most part denies God entirely, except for when they want to take His name in vain, and use it to serve some selfish intention. At the very least, most people throw His name around in complete ignorance, without any true knowledge of Him at all. They may as well be talking about Elvis.
The question is why is your perception what it is? What makes it up and why is it that you perceive one choice as more benefical than another? You are saying that it is what you are exposed to through your culture or through a choice of particular doctrines given your exposure to those doctrines. I disagree with you when you say that you can not choose your perception...I see that people do this all of the time, in that they choose to believe what they want to believe for whatever reason. The reason being that, as you've stated, the beliefs seems most beneficial to them in some way, whether it's because it fits in with their culture or what society accepts, or because it's what their family dictates, or because it makes for a comfortable and desired lifestyle, or for whatever reason. And you see then that people then accept information that supports their chosen belief as true and reject information that is contradictory to it as false. And it creates a paradigm...a perception is a paradigm...that in no way has to be deemed to be the truth. In actuality, the nature of a paradigm works to inhibit the truth, because if one already believes that one has found the "truth", one ceases to find a logical reason to seek it, and so they cease to seek. It is possible though, for some bit of contradictory information to come along and intrude into your perception...like a fying pan to the head. This is called an epiphany, which changes your perception, and at the very least shifts your paradigm. If one is intelligent enough to apply reason in regards to an epiphany, they would then unsubscribe to their paradigm once and for all, realizing that they will never know all there is to know, and that it is never "correct" or beneficial to stop seeking the truth. After all, to live is to learn...to seek the truth is the meaning of life. Now that is a perception you may want to hold on to...and that is a perception that you can choose to have.
Um...Satanism actually supports Christianity, as it is Christianity that defines Satan. Satanists are just choosing to play for the other team so to speak. But I get your point...lol.
And unless you live on a deserted island or in a cave somewhere, information containing the basic tenets of the Christian faith is widely available to anyone who may want to know about it, and in many different forms. As the world has gotten bigger and bigger in regards to population, it has at the same time grown smaller and smaller because of technology.
God is also no dummy in that He knows what you have been exposed to. He knows every little detail of your life experience and what it is that has made up your perceptions and why and He allows for all of this and takes all of it into account. He knows you better than you do...He made you.
And I don't want to label anyone's intentions as malicious. I don't want to judge anyone or come across as holier than thou. What I'm basing my arguement on is my own personal experience and how that allowed me to understand scripture that describes a certain spiritual law. I know that without a doubt, there was a time in my life when I did not want to know the truth. Did that make me a malicious person...evil? I don't know...I can certainly tell you that I didn't consider myself to be malicious or evil. I just didn't want to know because it was too consequential...it meant too much. I was afraid of what it would mean for me and my life. This life that I clinged to and that I did not want to give up...I did not want to give up control of. And as uncomfortable as this life of mine was, at the time I perceived it to be much more comfortable than what God would have for me if I gave my life to Him. Because I figured that if I had knowledge of Him...if I knew the truth about Him...that He actually did exist...it would only make sense to have to give a shit about what He wanted and what He determined to be right or wrong or good or bad. And what would that mean for my life? It was just way too consequential, and I just did not want to know...I was afraid that it would make my life bad, or boring, or hard. When ironically enough, my life was bad and boring and hard...and now I know that it was because I didn't know Him. It's funny. Knowing Him has been the opposite of what I expected back then.
What happened to me was that I got to a point in which I had to know the truth about God regardless of the consequences...regardless of what it meant for me and for my life...my lifestyle...I didn't care about the consequences anymore...I had to know the truth. Whatever that meant for me was irrelevant, because I was willing to accept it, as long as I knew the truth.
When this happened, He showed Himself to me. And He taught me through this experience, and over the years that your sincere desire to know the truth, is what determines whether you know it or not. And that is what the scripture means that says "seek and you will find, knock and the door will be opened".
But see, this scripture is not referring to seeking doctrine, or knocking on the door of a particular church, mosque, or temple. It is referring to seeking of God Himself, and knocking on His door. See, knowledge of God is not revealed through doctrine, or history, or scripture, or organizations of men, or institutions. Knowledge of God is only revealed unto you through the Holy Spirit. Otherwise, with all of these other things, all you have is evidence that you may intellectualize. But with the Holy Spirit, you have proof, because of a personal spiritual interaction. THAT is knowledge, and anything else is conjecture.
And in realizing this, it makes the availability of the doctrine, or the organization supporting the doctrine, or the societal acceptance of the doctrine irrelevant. Because it is not a doctrine that you seek, but a Spirit...a real live Spirit that is everywhere, and all knowing, and available to everyone, regardless of their circumstance. So you could indeed be living on a deserted island or in a cave and still know God, if your perception is that you desire to know. As a matter of fact, I would argue that it is a person in this isolated circumstance who would actually be in a better position to have such a perception and to gain knowledge of God Himself because they would lack all of the distractions and the lies and coercive pressures that come with societal living. This isolated person could know God through the Holy Spirit without ever knowing that the Bible or a person named Jesus ever existed. But I tell you for sure that if they ever did become familiar with scripture, that they would know it was the truth. Why? Because it would confirm everything they already know about Him...from knowing Him personally...and from having Him counsel and teach them personally.
I know this because I have experienced it myself. I was never that knowledgeable regarding scripture myself, and when I had tried to read it, I didn't understand much of it at all. It just seemed very dry and irrelevant to me...I got nothing out of it. But the way it has worked since knowing Him, is that He will teach me something, and always through my life experience. And then when I have gained understanding of it, at some point in the future, I may see or hear scripture that confirms it, and I'll be like, "Oh, ok, I understand what that means." But only because I've lived it. So the dynamic regarding understanding scripture, if done correctly in rebirth, is actually backwards to what most people think it is.
I would contest that we are not all that different you and I...or anyone for that matter. As we all have different paths and different circumstances...there is only one universe and one planet that we all reside on for now...there is only one set of universal laws that we all live under...and there is only one God who created it all...and ourselves...and in His image. The difference right now between you and I is that you are relying on yourself, and I am relying on God.
I am aware of my own arrogance and pride, and I know that evil exists in this world...I have felt it's effect...in my own actions and intentions and in those of others as well. I know that I am no different from anyone else in this way.
Love,
Lori
Leo Volont
Registered Senior Member
Zero Mass said:
You have Religions and you have Philosophies.
Religions arise from Divine Revelation.
Philosophies are cooked up by committees.
Now, most Atheists enjoy pretending that Religious Absolutes were the creation of Religions. In fact, they were the invention of Philosophers. It is like the Atheists themselves created a Religion designed for its Vulnerability.
But when did Revealed Religion ever pretend to possess God with any Absolute Power in the World? Look at Our Stories! First, the Creation Story -- the first thing mentioned is that in a Heavenly Rebellion God loses One Third of His Angels to Lucifer who is ejected from Heaven. What does this tell you? It tells you up front that One Third of the Powers in the Universe are in Rebellion against God. It doesn't make good Philosophy, but it was never intended to. It is Revealed Religion. It is only suppose to BE True, not sound True.
Then we have the Curse on Adam and Eve and their ejection from Paradice. There! Separation from God and all things Holy. Revealed Religion is notifying us that we can expect no perfection in these lower realms of the Curse of God.
Anyway, Epicurus was the typical Philosopher -- laying out Rules for God which God could not possibly conform to. Setting up the argument in terms which would guarentee he would win. If he had had any Intellectual Integrity he would offer an explanation which would explain Reality. Instead Epicurus shows us only a little child shaking his fist at the Sky.
snoopdogg_capoeira
Registered Member
If he is willing and able the why is there still evil?
You people love to deny the ability of free will given to us. Evil comes from us. It is no tool of God. and to say so is blasphemy. You better watch what you say on this forum. you may not believe in God, but he will hold you accountable unto death just the same.
Why do you struggle with believing in God. People answer me by saying i can not see him, i cannot hear him, i cannot feel taste or smell him. What good is he anyway. I said can you see air? They said no. I said can you fell it? They said yes, in a very bold and defiant voice as if to prove me wrong. I said why can you fell it. They replied i just can. I said your wrong. You can feel it because your in it's path. Live for God. Obey his word exactly and as passionately as you can. Do not quit searching for answers mind you for God is not the God of confusion, he would have you know all you can. But live for him and see if you don't see things you'd never have belived.
I have seen such miracles! Praise God.
You people love to deny the ability of free will given to us. Evil comes from us. It is no tool of God. and to say so is blasphemy. You better watch what you say on this forum. you may not believe in God, but he will hold you accountable unto death just the same.
Why do you struggle with believing in God. People answer me by saying i can not see him, i cannot hear him, i cannot feel taste or smell him. What good is he anyway. I said can you see air? They said no. I said can you fell it? They said yes, in a very bold and defiant voice as if to prove me wrong. I said why can you fell it. They replied i just can. I said your wrong. You can feel it because your in it's path. Live for God. Obey his word exactly and as passionately as you can. Do not quit searching for answers mind you for God is not the God of confusion, he would have you know all you can. But live for him and see if you don't see things you'd never have belived.
I have seen such miracles! Praise God.
snoopdogg_capoeira
Registered Member
get into god's path
snoopdogg_capoeira
Registered Member
hey Lori_7, it does my heart good to see that someone out there still moves by the holy spirit. Thank you.
also for everyone here. the book the creation-evolution controversy by R.L. wysong is awesome. It not only disproves evolution by a long shot but proves creationism with scientific law. 1st and 2nd law of thermodynamics, the law of biogenesis. All kinds of great stuff. Look into it.
also for everyone here. the book the creation-evolution controversy by R.L. wysong is awesome. It not only disproves evolution by a long shot but proves creationism with scientific law. 1st and 2nd law of thermodynamics, the law of biogenesis. All kinds of great stuff. Look into it.
snoopdogg_capoeira said:
Word up, home-pooch...I wish I could make people understand...that they are not going to find God in a book, or a doctrine, or an organization, or in their intellect...that God is a real live being with a Spirit...that they can interact with and know personally...if they only were to want to...
Scooby snacks for everyone!
Love,
Lori
I don't know how many of you have little kids or live with them, but I live with a two year old. She likes to help me out with cooking and stuff. ONe day, we were making pancakes on a griddle. I tell her to not touch the iron because it is hot and it will burn her. She decides to go ahead and touch it. I am willing that she not touch it, or I wouldn't warn her. I am able to make it so that she cannot burn herself ie. I can tell her to get out of the kitchen. But I allow her to stay. I let her choose to burn herself. Am I mean/cruel? No. I want her to learn how to trust me and to learn how to cook.
snoopdogg_capoeira
Registered Member
Enigma'07 good example. I read an analysis of all religion, atheism included, (It is a religion) and the writer of the analysis was in fact an atheist. He referred to religion as shallow water and said that the only way we will ever solve our problems is through a LACK of faith. He said if you want to get into the deep water become a free thinker. I don't think my belief in God ever stopped me from thinking. I still do my physics homework and would you believe it, not once has God ever stopped me.
But he also said that he admired and respected those who took their faith serious, so much so that they were willing to die for it.
to tell the truth I agree with him. Not on his beliefs mind you, but who are we to tell someone about a faith, and a set of guidelines that we don't follow.
the athiest man even quoted the bible referring to Jesus' statement that "those who believe on me and obey, even greater things than these shall you do." He said that christians do have a, more or less, test to see if they are just faking their faith or not.
By their fruits you shall know them.
I'm not saying if you believe in and obey God perfectly that your going to be able to shoot energy out of your hands cure all disease on the earth, Christ himself believed his whole life, but didn't start his ministry till he was 30. All in God's timing. but once again you must, must have faith for anything miraculous to occur.
For anyone out there who completely disagrees with any or every thing i've said, please do me a favor. I'm not asking you to give up Your beleifs, i'm just saying have an open mind and never stop searching for truth. It is out there. The greatest minds in history were people who were searching for the truth behind something they could not understand. Electricity. Time. Space. All things we now know more about because people we now call genius's would not just dismiss them as supernatural. Keep searching and don't get hard headed on me.
Peace,
Michael
don't preach hypocritically.
But he also said that he admired and respected those who took their faith serious, so much so that they were willing to die for it.
to tell the truth I agree with him. Not on his beliefs mind you, but who are we to tell someone about a faith, and a set of guidelines that we don't follow.
the athiest man even quoted the bible referring to Jesus' statement that "those who believe on me and obey, even greater things than these shall you do." He said that christians do have a, more or less, test to see if they are just faking their faith or not.
By their fruits you shall know them.
I'm not saying if you believe in and obey God perfectly that your going to be able to shoot energy out of your hands cure all disease on the earth, Christ himself believed his whole life, but didn't start his ministry till he was 30. All in God's timing. but once again you must, must have faith for anything miraculous to occur.
For anyone out there who completely disagrees with any or every thing i've said, please do me a favor. I'm not asking you to give up Your beleifs, i'm just saying have an open mind and never stop searching for truth. It is out there. The greatest minds in history were people who were searching for the truth behind something they could not understand. Electricity. Time. Space. All things we now know more about because people we now call genius's would not just dismiss them as supernatural. Keep searching and don't get hard headed on me.
Peace,
Michael
don't preach hypocritically.
snoopdogg_capoeira: You people love to deny the ability of free will given to us. Evil comes from us. It is no tool of God. and to say so is blasphemy. You better watch what you say on this forum. you may not believe in God, but he will hold you accountable unto death just the same.
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M*W: Welcome, snoopdogg, but you can dispense with the preaching.
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snoopdogg: Atheists believe in free will, because they don't believe in god. Evil only emanates from religious people who seem to believe that their god can redeem them from evil. Atheists focus on good, not evil. Atheists don't believe in blasphemy, because there are no gods to blaspheme.
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snoopdogg: Why do you struggle with believing in God. People answer me by saying i can not see him, i cannot hear him, i cannot feel taste or smell him. What good is he anyway.
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M*W: Atheists don't struggle with believing in a god that doesn't exist. We don't see him, we cannot hear him, nor can we taste or smell him, because he doesn't exist.
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snoopdogg: I said can you see air? They said no. I said can you fell it? They said yes, in a very bold and defiant voice as if to prove me wrong. I said why can you fell it. They replied i just can. I said your wrong. You can feel it because your in it's path.
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M*W: Atheists don't need proof of the air, we just know it's there so we can breathe.
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snoopdogg: Live for God. Obey his word exactly and as passionately as you can. Do not quit searching for answers mind you for God is not the God of confusion, he would have you know all you can. But live for him and see if you don't see things you'd never have belived. I have seen such miracles! Praise God.
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M*W: Atheists live for themselves for the good of all humanity. We obey passionately what our hearts tell us. We haven't quit searching for answers, we've just realized that there is no god to give us the answers we search for. Living for something that causes unbelieveable hallucinations is called an addiction. I suggest you get a psychotherapist for your hallucinations and a detox from your religious addiction. Praising god falls not only on deaf ears, but on no ears, and preaching on this forum can get you banned.
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M*W: Welcome, snoopdogg, but you can dispense with the preaching.
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snoopdogg: Atheists believe in free will, because they don't believe in god. Evil only emanates from religious people who seem to believe that their god can redeem them from evil. Atheists focus on good, not evil. Atheists don't believe in blasphemy, because there are no gods to blaspheme.
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snoopdogg: Why do you struggle with believing in God. People answer me by saying i can not see him, i cannot hear him, i cannot feel taste or smell him. What good is he anyway.
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M*W: Atheists don't struggle with believing in a god that doesn't exist. We don't see him, we cannot hear him, nor can we taste or smell him, because he doesn't exist.
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snoopdogg: I said can you see air? They said no. I said can you fell it? They said yes, in a very bold and defiant voice as if to prove me wrong. I said why can you fell it. They replied i just can. I said your wrong. You can feel it because your in it's path.
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M*W: Atheists don't need proof of the air, we just know it's there so we can breathe.
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snoopdogg: Live for God. Obey his word exactly and as passionately as you can. Do not quit searching for answers mind you for God is not the God of confusion, he would have you know all you can. But live for him and see if you don't see things you'd never have belived. I have seen such miracles! Praise God.
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M*W: Atheists live for themselves for the good of all humanity. We obey passionately what our hearts tell us. We haven't quit searching for answers, we've just realized that there is no god to give us the answers we search for. Living for something that causes unbelieveable hallucinations is called an addiction. I suggest you get a psychotherapist for your hallucinations and a detox from your religious addiction. Praising god falls not only on deaf ears, but on no ears, and preaching on this forum can get you banned.
snoopdogg_capoeira: get into god's path
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M*W: P-R-E-A-C-H-I-N-G ! ! !
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M*W: P-R-E-A-C-H-I-N-G ! ! !
snoopdogg_capoeira: hey Lori_7, it does my heart good to see that someone out there still moves by the holy spirit. Thank you.
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M*W: In religious addiction, the "shakes" or "DTs" as they are called, are neuromuscular seizures caused by a lack of oxygen to the brain resulting in brain damage. The holy spirit had nothing to do with it.
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snoopdogg: also for everyone here. the book the creation-evolution controversy by R.L. wysong is awesome. It not only disproves evolution by a long shot but proves creationism with scientific law. 1st and 2nd law of thermodynamics, the law of biogenesis. All kinds of great stuff. Look into it.
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M*W: I'm sure David F. already has.
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M*W: In religious addiction, the "shakes" or "DTs" as they are called, are neuromuscular seizures caused by a lack of oxygen to the brain resulting in brain damage. The holy spirit had nothing to do with it.
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snoopdogg: also for everyone here. the book the creation-evolution controversy by R.L. wysong is awesome. It not only disproves evolution by a long shot but proves creationism with scientific law. 1st and 2nd law of thermodynamics, the law of biogenesis. All kinds of great stuff. Look into it.
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M*W: I'm sure David F. already has.
snoopdogg_capoeira
Registered Member
WOW, M*W. Didn't mean to offend you. I will quit preaching at you if it makes you happy. I didn't mean to force anything on you in the first place, i was not trying to, so sorry if it sounded that way. I was out of line with the whole blasphemy thing. It is what i believe but i have no right to threaten you with it. if you would, and i'm not gonna push it or anything, but if you would could you explain to me why you think there is no god. It would be much appreciated.
snoopdogg_capoeira
Registered Member
again to M*W . I do however really respect you for trying to live as rightly as you can. There are very few who are unselfish enough to even do that, God or not. Tip of the Hat to ya.
snoopdogg_capoeira
Registered Member
also, and i'm probably gonna get a big BIG NO here, and i would understand that, but if you have an aol screen name, medicine woman, i would like to talk to you on there. this waiting stuff is so inconvinient.
Leo Volont
Registered Senior Member
snoopdogg_capoeira said:
You don't seem to have much of a background in Christianity, do you?
Christ wanted to get started when he was 12 years old, remember? His Mother told him "NO". It was only after She asked him to, that he re-commenced... he was even a smart-aleky son about it... remember what he replied when She told him at the Wedding of Cana to begin his Miracles?... "so you think it is finally the time for it", as though he had been somewhat recentful for having to wait 18 years.
Isn't it odd that Protestants do not see this... that Mary was so important to Jesus, and that his obedience to Her was absolute. I suppose it is because they hate Mary so much, they suppose Her Son must have hated Her too, and they think like you, that Christ could not begin because he could not begin... that He was the Son of God, but not quite yet...
As for the Holy Spirit... Protestants do not have it. They think they do but that is because when none of Paul's Congregations were given the Holy Spirit, because Paul's Teachings were not Christ's Teachings and so the Pauline Congregations were cut off from the Grace of God, Paul was put under pressure to explain why. So he lied. He told everybody that the Holy Spirit was not much more than ordinary virtues and common sense. He tossed out Pentacost and quite allowed everyone to forget what Christ said about the Holy Spirit, and instead insisted that the Holy Spirit was simply the different little human talents that everybody has in some degree.
But we know by the Christ-Like Miracles of the many Catholic Saints, and even from the Saints of the other Higher Religions (Hinduism, Sufism -- which is a development of Zoroastrianism) that there is indeed a Real Holy Spirit, and it goes way beyond Paul's and Protestantism's 'looking both ways when you cross a street'.
I interact with the Holy Spirit and have for years. I've had conversations with Him...He has taught me so many things...completely changed me and my life for the better. I'll never be "fixed" in this lifetime, but I've improved so much, and through no account of my own...only because of Him...all I've done is had faith in Him. I've experienced a mind blowing miracle recently...very complicated and involved...but having to do with revelations prophecy. I describe some of these things that I've experienced out here, and the best that the atheists can do is say that I'm crazy or hallucinating. My question to them is why don't you believe me? I'm telling you the truth. The answer is because you don't want to believe me...and that's the only reason. As a matter of fact, that's the only reason that you're not experiencing the Holy Spirit yourselves.
And MW...what in the hell are you talking about seizures and dt's for? My miracle doesn't have anything to do with lack of oxygen or seizures and I've been examined by a medical doctor, including an mri of the brain, and I'm in perfect health...mentally and physically...so again, let me once again warn you to speak for yourself, and do not project your full of crap diagnosis or absolutely ridiculous opinions on me or my experience. Thank you. Oh, and would you stop accusing people of preaching already. THAT'S ALL YOU DO WOMAN, YOU HYPOCRIT! SO SHUT UP ABOUT IT ALREADY! You're not a moderator so stop telling people what they can and can not say.
MW: "I don't preach, I teach."
roflmao. WHAT A LOAD.
Love,
Lori
And MW...what in the hell are you talking about seizures and dt's for? My miracle doesn't have anything to do with lack of oxygen or seizures and I've been examined by a medical doctor, including an mri of the brain, and I'm in perfect health...mentally and physically...so again, let me once again warn you to speak for yourself, and do not project your full of crap diagnosis or absolutely ridiculous opinions on me or my experience. Thank you. Oh, and would you stop accusing people of preaching already. THAT'S ALL YOU DO WOMAN, YOU HYPOCRIT! SO SHUT UP ABOUT IT ALREADY! You're not a moderator so stop telling people what they can and can not say.
MW: "I don't preach, I teach."
roflmao. WHAT A LOAD.
Love,
Lori