Tiberius1701 said:
No, I mean the only way God could eliminate evil would be to remove humans of their free will, since it is inevitable when creating billions of people that some will choose evil. Human beings are not perfect.
Well, instead of eliminating free will, it seems that He is eliminating those who use their free will to choose evil. See, it's according to His law that states that the result of sin is death. So the result of the transgression of his law is death. So to use your free will to choose to trangress His law is really to choose to eliminate yourself. You choose...do I want eternal life...or do I want death? He gives you what you want.
Yes, but even though there is good, the point still stands - God created a universe he knew would contain evil for his own selfish ends (to have people to commune with).
So are you saying that every person who bears children throughout the entire history of this planet, knowing that evil exists is selfish, and is doing so selfishly? We all should have stopped having sex long ago and perpetuate the extinction of our species to spare the future generation any suffering? Are you saying that it's better not to live at all, than to live a life with suffering and then die? I also think that you might be forgetting how long eternity is. This time spent with evil in our midst is infinitesmal.
Don't you want to live? Don't you want to exist? I do. And I live in the same world that you do. I didn't used to be too keen on this life, but I could never kill myself because I knew that there may be something so much more than this. Now that I know Him, things are so much different. Now, even though this world sucks, He has blessed me so much that I have a hard time imagining anything any better than this...even in His Kingdom...which I know is incorrect in thinking...it's just that He's made things so good for me here...I could have never imagined it being this good, or anything close to it, much less how it will be in His Kingdom. So recently, I've been hoping for time...lots of time left, here on this sucky planet, to enjoy the life that I've been given in Him.
Because God is allegedly all powerful - he can do anything. And that includes making a being which already contains knowledge of the things it would have learned through a life of suffering. It should be a sinch.
Your brain (or soul) is in a certain state before an experience, and a certain state after an experience. Experiences change the nature, structure, and state of your brain (and presumeably soul). If God can create one structure he can create another. He could have created the entire universe one hour ago, complete with full memories everyone had of all preceding events and world history. He could have made sure to include this forum in his creation, along with your memory of writing your last post, even though it didn't actually happened.
So, when the whole world history is complete and all the badies have gone to hell and all the goodies are with him in heaven communing, then that will be the state of things. He could have just created that state, along with the inner knowledge and nature of all beings involved just as they will be, without ever having created a universe with so much suffering.
Sooooo, you want God to brainwash you instead of allowing you to actually live? That's....weird. Reminds me of that Schwartzenegger movie...the one that Sharon Stone kicks ass in right? You know, and they had that place you could go to have vacation memories implanted into your brain. Did you see that movie cause I think it may just provide an answer to your suggestion. Which begs the question...how would you know that the knowledge that He implanted in you was the truth? Talk about a lack of free will...you would rather be some programmed robot-like being? That would take away all of your free will as you would have absolutely no choices at all regarding your experience in life...you wouldn't have a life...it would be imaginery. Brainwashing and spoonfeeding is not how God operates...ironically, it is however how the "other side" operates.
Yes and to fulfill that desire he would go to any lengths, including creating a universe in which he knew there would be massive suffering. It's not like having kids because parents can't control the universe. If they could, they would ensure that their children did not suffer.
As you suggested before...they could not have them in the first place...knowing that suffering exists
And like I said, the only reason that the suffering seems so "massive" to you is because the life of your flesh is all you see and believe in. And because you see no purpose in it other than suffering for the sake of suffering. This life of suffering is a mere blink of an eye compared to the eternal life of your spirit....that if you choose this eternal life, will live forever in love joy and peace.
Which he knew would happen when he created them. A murderer may have free will too, but if I open his jail cell and release him out into the world, am I not responsible in some regard? God unleashed all sorts of horrors on his children, including certain children that he knew would freely choose evil upon the others.
He also offers them protection, provision, redemption, restoration, and salvation in Christ. And for all of the horror, gee, you would think that more people would take Him up on it huh?
Why would I need to learn how to avoid something that will eventually be gone?
Because given the premise of free will, it will only be gone because you have learned how to avoid it and why you should.
If you say that evil is truly going to be gone, then that means no one will have the ability to choose to do evil once in heaven. If that is true, then our entire ride here is pointless. He could have just created people that coudn't do evil to begin with.
People will still have free will, and still have the ability, but they will choose not to because after all, knowing what they know from living here and now, WHY WOULD THEY CHOOSE TO? Fact is that God knows what we will choose before we ever do, so ultimately, the ones who will be saved are the ones who, by their own choice, and by their own desire, will live according to His law.
On the other hand, if you say that evil will be removed but our ability to choose evil will continue, then evil will not truly be removed because if so many people have the ability to choose evil for ALL eternity, then eventually someone will.
Not if they don't exist anymore they won't. God already knows what everyone will eventually choose for all of eternity. I can't really get my head around that either, but that's not surprising, as I am only human.
And, aside from the question above, you still have the fact that an all powerful god could have created entities already aware of the lessons he's teaching them with evil now. Through god all things are allegedly possible so that means evil isn't necessary. For ANYTHING to be necessary would mean that there would have to be some things God can't do.
God IS doing it...His way...which is the best way...the perfect way. Now, that doesn't mean that this is the only way, just the best way. And the best way for us, whether you see it or not. He always acts in our best interest, you just can't see all of what God can see. But, when you create your own universe, and your own species, then you can decide what's best for them...like brainwashing them perhaps...into choosing whatever you want them to choose....thereby eliminating their free will. You could call them muppets. Muppets are damn cute aren't they?
So, either God is not all good, or he's not all powerful. The two cannot logically both be true given the universe we live in.
As mentioned by Quantum Quack, there may be other sorts of general god/s which are logically possible. But the one being discssed here is flat out impossible.
I contest, as I have found flaws in the logic that you are using. God is indeed both all good and all powerful...and all knowing. We are not all knowing...not sure that I would even want to be...but we can know Him, and in doing that, we can know everything we need to know, to ensure an eternal life of love peace and joy.
Love,
Lori
