Thanks I willAs for the wiki, you need to ask Plazma, its his wiki not mine.
The Muslim Black Box: Kaaba
- Thread starter Vega
- Start date
Is it possible to have a mind so open that your brains fall out?
Apparently, yes!
The Jewish foundation of Islam
PS could you post the link to the book again? I forgot the name.
Apparently, yes!
The Jewish foundation of Islam
PS could you post the link to the book again? I forgot the name.
Last edited:
Sam Sam Sam .. now now dear, I answered those 6 question in 6 seconds. Surely you can do me the favor - just this once (for nowIs it possible to have a mind so open that your brains fall out?
Apparently, yes!
The Jewish foundation of Islam
PS could you post the link to the book again? I forgot the name.
Seriously, these are not far fetched as each question relates to a notion that hundreds of thousands of people either presently do, or at one time did, seriously believe.
So they are fair enough questions.
Michael
Ooopps a lecture is starting in 5 min!!!
Sam Sam Sam .. now now dear, I answered those 6 question in 6 seconds. Surely you can do me the favor - just this once (for now
Seriously, these are not far fetched as each question relates to a notion that hundreds of thousands of people either presently do, or at one time did, seriously believe.
So they are fair enough questions.
Michael
Ooopps a lecture is starting in 5 min!!!
If you can answer all of them yes and mean it, you need to refine your thinking.
Either that or you are the most indecisive person in the world!
I read artcle One of Four. I'll have to read the other later.
Here are some points I found interesting:
_________________
The general knowledge of certain Christian doctrines, and of specific Christian terms, was much more widespread in Arabia in the prophet's time than the scholars of a former generation realized. New evidence has been collected, as will appear. The most of the catchwords and other characteristic properties which muhammad Mohammed has been credited with introducing to his fellow-countrymen are now seen to have been well known to them before his day.
_____________________
Yet we have to account for a number of Jewish tribes, and at least one Jewish city. No succession of mere trading ventures could possibly explain what we see. Hence arises the question of proselyting; whether it is likely to have been undertaken on a large scale by Jewish traders in Arabia, and whether from its probable result could be explained the condition which we find. The hypothesis of native clans converted through propaganda has played a foremost part in some recent discussions, as a way of accounting for the origin and the apparent character of the nominally Israelite population. The discussion of this question may be reserved for the present: whether it can reasonably be held that these undeniably large and influential Jewish settlements consisted mainly of native Arab tribes which had been converted to a more or less superficial Judaism.
_________________
Ahrens sees reason for believing that muhammad Mohammed received his teaching, now from Arians (pp. 154 f.), now from Nestorians (18, 173), and again from Gnostics and Manichaeans (15, 18, 167). Christian hermits, presumably in the Hijaz, told him what to say (186). His slaves, doubtless from Abyssinia and Syria (these of course Monophysite), gave him the continuous instruction which he needed (187 f.). muhammad Mohammed's New Testament material, he decides, is taken from nearly every part of the Christian scriptures: Gospels, Acts, Pauline Epistles, and the Book of Revelation (172 f.).
Certainly to many students of the quran Koran this equipment of the Arabian prophet will seem excessive, and the supposed course of training a bit bewildering. I shall endeavor to show, in subsequent lectures, that in the quran Koran itself there is no clear evidence that muhammad Mohammed had ever received instruction from a Christian teacher, while many facts testify emphatically to the contrary; and that, on the other hand, the evidence that he gained his Christian material either from Jews in Mekka, or from what was well known and handed about in the Arabian cities, is clear, consistent, and convincing.
________________
The fact of the Israelite city of Khaibar, "the richest city of the Hijaz," is one very significant item among many. Such a civilization is not produced in a short time. Native Arab tribes "converted" in the manner supposed would have been certain, we should imagine, to welcome and accept the prophet of their own number who promised them a truly Arabian continuation of Judaism adapted to their own special needs, while based squarely on the Hebrew scriptures. But the Jews of Mekka, Medina, and the rest of the Hijaz knew better, and would not yield an inch.
____________
Margoliouth will have it that muhammad Mohammed had small respect for the Israelites of Mekka and Medina, saying (p. 81), "In relation to the native Arabs he thought of them as an inferior caste." I cannot imagine how this saying could be justified from the quran Koran, unless it means (as its context might possibly be held to imply) that the unbelieving Jews were destined for an especially deep-down compartment in the infernal regions.
_________________
It is a familiar fact that the Mishna takes account of Arabian Israelites. Shabb. 6, 6 notes that "the Arabian Jewesses go out wrapped in a veil, so that only their eyes are seen." Ohaloth 18, 10, speaking of the various places where dwellings in which pagans have lodged may be occupied by Jews without the contraction of ceremonial uncleanness, names "the tents of the Arabs." [I was of the mind the scarf was Byzantine - perhaps this extreme covering was Jewish?]
_________________
Here are some points I found interesting:
_________________
The general knowledge of certain Christian doctrines, and of specific Christian terms, was much more widespread in Arabia in the prophet's time than the scholars of a former generation realized. New evidence has been collected, as will appear. The most of the catchwords and other characteristic properties which muhammad Mohammed has been credited with introducing to his fellow-countrymen are now seen to have been well known to them before his day.
_____________________
Yet we have to account for a number of Jewish tribes, and at least one Jewish city. No succession of mere trading ventures could possibly explain what we see. Hence arises the question of proselyting; whether it is likely to have been undertaken on a large scale by Jewish traders in Arabia, and whether from its probable result could be explained the condition which we find. The hypothesis of native clans converted through propaganda has played a foremost part in some recent discussions, as a way of accounting for the origin and the apparent character of the nominally Israelite population. The discussion of this question may be reserved for the present: whether it can reasonably be held that these undeniably large and influential Jewish settlements consisted mainly of native Arab tribes which had been converted to a more or less superficial Judaism.
_________________
Ahrens sees reason for believing that muhammad Mohammed received his teaching, now from Arians (pp. 154 f.), now from Nestorians (18, 173), and again from Gnostics and Manichaeans (15, 18, 167). Christian hermits, presumably in the Hijaz, told him what to say (186). His slaves, doubtless from Abyssinia and Syria (these of course Monophysite), gave him the continuous instruction which he needed (187 f.). muhammad Mohammed's New Testament material, he decides, is taken from nearly every part of the Christian scriptures: Gospels, Acts, Pauline Epistles, and the Book of Revelation (172 f.).
Certainly to many students of the quran Koran this equipment of the Arabian prophet will seem excessive, and the supposed course of training a bit bewildering. I shall endeavor to show, in subsequent lectures, that in the quran Koran itself there is no clear evidence that muhammad Mohammed had ever received instruction from a Christian teacher, while many facts testify emphatically to the contrary; and that, on the other hand, the evidence that he gained his Christian material either from Jews in Mekka, or from what was well known and handed about in the Arabian cities, is clear, consistent, and convincing.
________________
The fact of the Israelite city of Khaibar, "the richest city of the Hijaz," is one very significant item among many. Such a civilization is not produced in a short time. Native Arab tribes "converted" in the manner supposed would have been certain, we should imagine, to welcome and accept the prophet of their own number who promised them a truly Arabian continuation of Judaism adapted to their own special needs, while based squarely on the Hebrew scriptures. But the Jews of Mekka, Medina, and the rest of the Hijaz knew better, and would not yield an inch.
____________
Margoliouth will have it that muhammad Mohammed had small respect for the Israelites of Mekka and Medina, saying (p. 81), "In relation to the native Arabs he thought of them as an inferior caste." I cannot imagine how this saying could be justified from the quran Koran, unless it means (as its context might possibly be held to imply) that the unbelieving Jews were destined for an especially deep-down compartment in the infernal regions.
_________________
It is a familiar fact that the Mishna takes account of Arabian Israelites. Shabb. 6, 6 notes that "the Arabian Jewesses go out wrapped in a veil, so that only their eyes are seen." Ohaloth 18, 10, speaking of the various places where dwellings in which pagans have lodged may be occupied by Jews without the contraction of ceremonial uncleanness, names "the tents of the Arabs." [I was of the mind the scarf was Byzantine - perhaps this extreme covering was Jewish?]
_________________
No I am simply admitting that these are things I am willing to consider possibilities. That is, I am open minded enough to entertain that yes these beliefs may be true. That is different than saying that I believe them - only that I am open to the notion that they are possible.
Here I'll post them again. I would appreciate if you could answer honestly a Yes or No. As I said, I am of the mind to answer Yes on all accounts. All are a possibility.
1) Sam, is there a chance that Mohammad was just a man with schizophrenia and never had any conversations with any angels and the stories were simply plagiarized and blended?
2) Sam, is it possible that there is no God?
3) Sam, is it possible that the polytheistic Arab Gods were the true Gods and not the one God you worship?
4) Sam, is it possible that fundamental Christians are correct and you, along we me, will be in hell after we die?
5) Sam, is it possible that the 1 million million Shinto Gods of Japan are real?
6) Is it possible you are absolutely correct in all your religous beliefs?
Michael
PS: That seminar/lecture was a Webinar. Pretty cool. When way over my head because I've never done microarrays and have almost no experience in molecular biology. But the Webinar itself was pretty cool.
How about you? Do you do molecular biology?
1. No, there is no evidence to support that possibility
2. Yes it is possible there is no God, in the same way that it is possible the universe was not created from nothing.
3. The Arabs did not have Gods they had demons, so that premise makes no sense.
4. Since Hell is an undefined concept, I would have to say I don't know.
5. The Shinto gods are sacred spirits which reside in natural elements, they are personifications of qualities of nature same as in Hinduism. Shinto is like Dharma, a way of the Gods rather than gods so it does not cover the concept of God as I know it.
6.Since they are always being built upon, eventually I hope so.
2. Yes it is possible there is no God, in the same way that it is possible the universe was not created from nothing.
3. The Arabs did not have Gods they had demons, so that premise makes no sense.
4. Since Hell is an undefined concept, I would have to say I don't know.
5. The Shinto gods are sacred spirits which reside in natural elements, they are personifications of qualities of nature same as in Hinduism. Shinto is like Dharma, a way of the Gods rather than gods so it does not cover the concept of God as I know it.
6.Since they are always being built upon, eventually I hope so.
OK, just to make sure, if you could indulge me here.
1) Is it possible there are five Gods?
2) Is it possible Mohammad was not a Prophet?
3) Is it possible I am God?
Thanks
Michael
PS: You didn't say about the MB?
Also, did you read the website you sent me? What did you think? I'm on assay three. It kind supports what I had though from before - although I think it does downplay the impact Xianity had. But, maybe not?
PSS: My buddy Reza is here right now printing CD labels for his Zen teacher. Is there anything you would like me to ask him? (I have to run to the lab I'll be back in 15). If so fire away!
I think our concept of God is different, you tend to personalise God, so you assign numeric value, while my concept of God is formless and universal, so numbers make no sense.
You mean accidental Prophet? Or deliberate deception? Or madness?
Its western hubris to consider other peoples as ignorant, I know, but really, the reverse is generally truer
; he'd have to be exceptionally talented to fool so many people over so many years.
Aren't all Americans?
I haven't done microarrays, but I know people who do, my lab is involved in custom designing a cancer chip now. I do clinical work with animals, mostly tissue effects of nutrition interventions, some quantitaive PCR, immunoblotting. I'm hoping to pick up some experience in transgenics, cloning and mutation.
That was a test; did you notice something interesting about the stuff written on it? Anything that seemed a little, shall we say, puzzling?
I stopped talking to invisible friends some time ago.
No Samantha
OK - off I go to get some beer and pizza and watch Lost and pray to the Western Blot Gods that mine works (It is possible there are Western Blot Gods
Michael
The trick to a good blot is optimisation.
And good good washing.
REALLY?? It is called rewriting history. Cut this from an article about flat eathers in UK: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_Earth_Society
I thought this was common knowledge/
Last edited: