The Muslim Black Box: Kaaba
- Thread starter Vega
- Start date
A shrine is a container for an image dedicated to a saint or a deity.
The Kabah is the qibla or the focus for Muslims to pray to, the original Qibla was Jerusalem, but Mohammed changed it when he moved to Mecca.
The word Kabah or Kaaba comes from the Arabic mukaab, which means cube, since its a cuboidal structure. The original Kaaba was said to be built by Abraham and hence the place has historical significance (the whole purpose of Hajj is to keep the history of Islam fresh through rituals that echo an incident in the past).
I suppose you could, but you'd have to consider it as a dwelling place of a deity or a saint.
The Kaaba is an equivalent of the wailing wall of the Jews. Is that considered a shrine?
or a rock? :shrug:
I think so. But are you saying the Kaaba is a dwelling place of Allah?
How is a man made construction a rock?
No thats what you are saying. Thats what a shrine is.
No, that's what you're saying. Nyah. Nyah nyah nyah.
No, seriously, I've actually never heard a shrine described that way. I always thought shrines were just places of particular devotion to be offered up, etc.
As far as I know (and I have been known to be wrong on occasion
), a shrine is a place where offerings are made to a deity or a saint (or a loved one who has passed on)
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A shrine would refer to the dwelling place of an idol, not the idol itself.
Literally, Kaaba in Arabic means a high place with respect and prestige. The word Kaba may also be derivative of a word meaning a cube.
Some of these other names include:
Bait ul Ateeq - which means, according to one meaning, the earliest and ancient. According to the second meaning, it means independent and liberating. Both meanings could be taken
Bayt ul Haram - the honorable house
The Kaaba has been reconstructed up to 12 times Scholars and historians say that the Kaba has been reconstructed between five to 12 times.
Also Abraham and Ismael rebuilt the Kaaba. The measurements of the Kaaba's Ibrahimic foundation are as follows: the eastern wall was 48 feet and 6 inches the Hatim side wall was 33 feet the side between the black stone and the Yemeni corner was 30 feet the Western side was 46.5 feet.
Following this, there were several constructions before the Prophet Muhammad's time.
On Rajab 28 1377, One historian counted the total stones of the Kaba and they were 1,614. These stones are of different shapes. But the stones which are inside the outer wall which is visible are not counted in there.
There were 360 idols in Kaaba. Prophet Muhammad [PBUH] and Ali destroyed all the idols in Kaaba. Some times each tribe has his own idol. These idols and names of them were imaginary most of the times. It is also said that pagans of Arab had also also made idol of Allah by imagination and it was believed and worshipped as moon god.
There was a big idol named Hubal who had three daughters [goddesses] Lat, Azza or Uzza and Manat.
The sacred nature of the site predates Islam: tradition says that the Kaaba was built by Adam and rebuilt by Abraham and the descendants of Noah. Also known as the House of God, it is the center of the circumambulations performed during the hajj, and it is toward the Kaaba that Muslims face in their prayers. Pre-Islamic Meccans used it as a central shrine housing their many idols.
The Black Stone, possibly of meteoric origin, is located at one of its outside corners. Also dating from pre-Islamic times as a heavenly relic, this stone is venerated and ritually kissed. Worn hollow by the centuries of veneration, the stone is held together by a wide silver band.
Around the Kaaba is a restricted area, haram, extending in some directions as far as 12 mi, into which only Muslims may enter.
Very mysterious!!!
Some of these other names include:
Bait ul Ateeq - which means, according to one meaning, the earliest and ancient. According to the second meaning, it means independent and liberating. Both meanings could be taken
Bayt ul Haram - the honorable house
The Kaaba has been reconstructed up to 12 times Scholars and historians say that the Kaba has been reconstructed between five to 12 times.
Also Abraham and Ismael rebuilt the Kaaba. The measurements of the Kaaba's Ibrahimic foundation are as follows: the eastern wall was 48 feet and 6 inches the Hatim side wall was 33 feet the side between the black stone and the Yemeni corner was 30 feet the Western side was 46.5 feet.
Following this, there were several constructions before the Prophet Muhammad's time.
On Rajab 28 1377, One historian counted the total stones of the Kaba and they were 1,614. These stones are of different shapes. But the stones which are inside the outer wall which is visible are not counted in there.
There were 360 idols in Kaaba. Prophet Muhammad [PBUH] and Ali destroyed all the idols in Kaaba. Some times each tribe has his own idol. These idols and names of them were imaginary most of the times. It is also said that pagans of Arab had also also made idol of Allah by imagination and it was believed and worshipped as moon god.
There was a big idol named Hubal who had three daughters [goddesses] Lat, Azza or Uzza and Manat.
The sacred nature of the site predates Islam: tradition says that the Kaaba was built by Adam and rebuilt by Abraham and the descendants of Noah. Also known as the House of God, it is the center of the circumambulations performed during the hajj, and it is toward the Kaaba that Muslims face in their prayers. Pre-Islamic Meccans used it as a central shrine housing their many idols.
The Black Stone, possibly of meteoric origin, is located at one of its outside corners. Also dating from pre-Islamic times as a heavenly relic, this stone is venerated and ritually kissed. Worn hollow by the centuries of veneration, the stone is held together by a wide silver band.
Around the Kaaba is a restricted area, haram, extending in some directions as far as 12 mi, into which only Muslims may enter.
Very mysterious!!!
Thats why the royal family needs a icon like that to keep them and the rest of the muslim world together!
Quite explains muhammads political agenda's!
Hardly, all Muslims see the Sauds for what they are, including the people under them
As far as I know (and I have been known to be wrong on occasion
But I don't think that means the god lives there. It's just a locale of significance to them.
All shrines I have seen have an idol or a photo in them. With flowers or other offerings.
http://re-xs.ucsm.ac.uk/re/places/sh-room.htm
http://cache.gizmodo.com/gadgets/ipod-god-shrine-5.jpg
Why wouldn't people living in that area copy the religous symbolism from one of their nearest trading partners?
They live adjacent to three of the five oldest civilizations - it's certainly reasonable that after thousands of years of contact that many religious themes would be copied. The Hindus are the one of the, or the, oldest and most developed - so it makes sense their's is one that would be copied.
Anyway, no one, not even Sam, disagrees that many of Islamic practices pre-date Islam, such as the religous significance of the square, the god Allah, the walking around the Kaaba, the moon symbol, etc....
So the questions is:
1) Did the Arabs develop their religious ideas totally indepednant of their continue contract and trade with the advanced Hindu civilization?
-OR-
2) Did the Arabs copy their religious ideas and symbolism from their millennial old trading partners and much more advanced civilizations right adjacent to them?
Which seems the more reasonable.
Walking through the millennial old Buddhist temples way over on the island nation of Japan demonstrates the distance religious ideas can travel. All the way from India and in such a relatively short period.
Michael
PS:
Also, I think this is the most rational answer to the question: Where did that moon symbol that stands above almost all Mosques come from? I always ask that and always get a blank stare. Like Why do you ask? Does it really matter? It's tradition. Stop asking stupid questions!
PPS:
Also, on that note, we all have seen the Jesus fish bumper sticker. We now of course that this is the geometric ratio 153, exactly the number of fish pulled from the sea in the Bible, of two interlocking circles and was known throughout the Hellenic world as the measure of the fish. A testament of the degree to which symbols, such as the moon, or the Jesus fish can persist while even their meanings diverge in differing societies.
Great post Vega!