The Ineffability of God's Will
- Thread starter Tiassa
- Start date
For what purpose, to what end?
And yet - your own God, too, loved the world so much that He gave His only begotten son - and He, too, was appalled by violence.
God can love the world and be appalled by violence - but humans may not?
sarcastic?
i'm reminded of Ozymandis from "the Watchers".
the whole point of getting it tenfold is to compensate for the human condition, not be dependent on it.
in islam there's a hadith that says when those of hard luck see what god has prepared for them in heaven for their unfortunes, they wish their skins were whipped.
as for the three table thing, i didn't understand the relation between shortening each leg and what's written under(free will, god has more concerns, etc)..
simple, as i said, because he's GOD, he may have done it for reasons we don't know or can't comprehend, that's the whole premise. while of course, if a human did it, there isn't a reason such that he can't explain it to us, the domain of his reasoning is the same as ours, so we can judge him as criminal by our own reasoning, god isn't. it's like a child labeling adults as good and evil according to his reasoning, since all of us have been there and saw how with increasing knowledge what was good becomes evil and what was evil becomes good, most people can understand that god doing evil things may be actually good for us, that is why people don't have a hard time accepting it from him, and not from a human [criminal].
i'm reminded of Ozymandis from "the Watchers".
the key phrase is "and are happy to do so", that's what heaven is all about, even if it's sitting down on white papers and scribbling with crayons for eternity, it's a place where' you're eternally happy, even if scribbling with crayons now sounds stupid, it wouldn't then.
that seems unfair, to make a reward dependent on a human condition you had no hand in, what i meant by tenfold is relative to the other guy, like you said about hotel rooms.
the whole point of getting it tenfold is to compensate for the human condition, not be dependent on it.
in islam there's a hadith that says when those of hard luck see what god has prepared for them in heaven for their unfortunes, they wish their skins were whipped.
as for the three table thing, i didn't understand the relation between shortening each leg and what's written under(free will, god has more concerns, etc)..
Christians aren't famous for their sense of subtlety and graduality ...
Referring to "God works in mysterious ways" is fine and well - as long as a person or a group of people does not rise up and less or more violently suppress another in the name of God.
Yet in interpersonal relationships and social interactions in general, theists often do precisely that, as implicitly or explicitly try to pull rank against other people, on account that they are theists while the others are not.
Making claims in the name of God comes with great responsibility.
In fact, it just occured to me that the fact that there is a lively opposition to those who claim to know God's will, suggests there is some universal awareness of this responsibility - that people in fact do not simply get away with claiming to know God's will.
Why would these have to be the only two choices - namely, being made flawed from the onset and then blamed for it; or being an animal or robot?
Aye. Lori, what would I do without you to define my world for me, like every good bully does? :yay:
oh that's right, duh! i was basing that response on all of your posts of course, but i keep forgetting that you're a liar.
surely you've read genesis. we weren't flawed from the onset; we were just ignorant, which is why we didn't know what a lie was until we fell for one, and which is why we wouldn't know what evil is and the consequences of it, until we experienced it.
god's doing something about it. what are you doing about it besides finger pointing and bitching and playing a victim?
the end of suffering.
According to you anyway.
Equally to the point: what are you doing? Other than posting inane delusions and making claims you can't substantiate?
i'm actually praying for an end to all suffering. you can't possibly be naive enough not to realize what has to happen to achieve that can you? there is no doubt whatsoever that things are going to get really bad before they're ever going to get better. if you don't see that you must have your head stuck in the sand.
well congratulations on being on the payroll bells. that's terrific. and while our tax dollars are paying your salary, and the other hundreds of people who are getting paid to jail this guy, and paying to take care of him better than a lot of people on the outside get taken care of, if you're stupid fucking system wasn't in the way, we could have taken care of him immediately and once and for all for the cost of a bullet.
i'm surprised you found any room for him in the prisons with all of the minorities that are locked up for marijuana possession.
i'm not the only person out there that gives a shit, wants to end suffering for all of us, and doesn't care what sacrifice has to be made to achieve it. there's a few of us amidst the drones, yes.
144,000 will. and to the rest, well, too fucking bad.
if they're not evil, yes.
yes i am.
this isn't about my ego bells, it's about yours. this is reality. the reality you don't give a rat's ass about.
and i'm sure he's sleeping just fine at night just like you do, knowing the same shit's going to happen to someone else tomorrow. you know what that means...another paycheck! yay!
bells, the four horsemen are on the move right now. bottom line is, you and the others who love this nasty world so much better get a clue and get right with god right now, or you'll be damned. those are your only two choices.
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i told them corey. XO
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gYy0DyArs0
goodbye! :wave:
Oh, save us all again from a cynic's Armageddon.
When your mind didn't want to break, your rusty mouth consented.
I think you're all afraid -- Too afraid to admit pollution.
Now there's no easy way to avoid such a hard solution.
Digital -- Did you tell the word today that we would say goodbye?
Digital -- Did you tell the word today that we would say goodbye?
Here we go again with a brilliant overreaction.
My advice isn't going to change -- Dysfunction over fashion.
I think you're all ashamed -- Too ashamed to admit your faults.
No daylight in the bunker -- Just darkness in the vaults.
Digital -- Did you tell the word today that we would say goodbye?
Digital -- Did you tell the word today that we would say goodbye?
There's only one way out of this
But do we have the nerve to try?
'Cause there is no way out of this
If all our answers say goodbye.
Goodbye -- There's only one way out of this
But do we have the nerve to try?
'Cause there is no way out of this
If all our answers say goodbye.
Digital -- Did you tell the word today that we would say goodbye?
Digital -- Did you tell the word today that we would say goodbye?
Digital -- Did you tell the word today that we would say goodbye?
Digital -- Did you tell the word today that we would say goodbye?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gYy0DyArs0
goodbye! :wave:
Oh, save us all again from a cynic's Armageddon.
When your mind didn't want to break, your rusty mouth consented.
I think you're all afraid -- Too afraid to admit pollution.
Now there's no easy way to avoid such a hard solution.
Digital -- Did you tell the word today that we would say goodbye?
Digital -- Did you tell the word today that we would say goodbye?
Here we go again with a brilliant overreaction.
My advice isn't going to change -- Dysfunction over fashion.
I think you're all ashamed -- Too ashamed to admit your faults.
No daylight in the bunker -- Just darkness in the vaults.
Digital -- Did you tell the word today that we would say goodbye?
Digital -- Did you tell the word today that we would say goodbye?
There's only one way out of this
But do we have the nerve to try?
'Cause there is no way out of this
If all our answers say goodbye.
Goodbye -- There's only one way out of this
But do we have the nerve to try?
'Cause there is no way out of this
If all our answers say goodbye.
Digital -- Did you tell the word today that we would say goodbye?
Digital -- Did you tell the word today that we would say goodbye?
Digital -- Did you tell the word today that we would say goodbye?
Digital -- Did you tell the word today that we would say goodbye?
i'm birthing the kingdom of christ.
Er, right.
How, exactly?
Differentiating Unity, and Other Notes
Don't expect me to disagree with that. God's will is, as I understand it, ineffable.
It is still a differentiated condition, which presents certain metaphysical problems in considering something so timeless as to be Alpha and Omega (i.e., infinite).
Well, right, but it also seems strange that one person's reward might be a bean-sprout sandwich while another gets an ice cream cone. If everybody gets the bean sprouts, it is true that the hungry soul will find a greater reward.
But—
—therein lies the problem. Is God deaf and blind to the yearnings of a man's heart? Can God be conned into handing out bigger rewards? Can one cajole God by deliberately setting themselves up to suffer? It seems at some point one risks offending God's sensibilities.
Each is the fundamental flaw in holding these statements to be absolute. Omniscience breaks in the face of free will. Omnipotence comes with the catch that God has bigger things to do, which is why He will leave any given individual to suffer. God's benevolence is difficult to reconcile when compared to the fact that evil flourishes. This latter is, of course, the primary metaphysical conflict of the present thread, but the problem of theodicy is that people assert for God what can only be true according to different terms than humanity understands either intellectually or viscerally.
In the cases we've explored thus far, the problem primarily pertains to Christian theology. While there are forms of Islamic theodicy, they necessarily attend different boundaries. But there are certain underlying commonalities; one must be careful when and how they attribute demonic or other nefarious influence. One must be cautious when translating God's divine will into mundane and mortal action.
Scifes said:
Don't expect me to disagree with that. God's will is, as I understand it, ineffable.
It is still a differentiated condition, which presents certain metaphysical problems in considering something so timeless as to be Alpha and Omega (i.e., infinite).
Well, right, but it also seems strange that one person's reward might be a bean-sprout sandwich while another gets an ice cream cone. If everybody gets the bean sprouts, it is true that the hungry soul will find a greater reward.
But—
—therein lies the problem. Is God deaf and blind to the yearnings of a man's heart? Can God be conned into handing out bigger rewards? Can one cajole God by deliberately setting themselves up to suffer? It seems at some point one risks offending God's sensibilities.
Each is the fundamental flaw in holding these statements to be absolute. Omniscience breaks in the face of free will. Omnipotence comes with the catch that God has bigger things to do, which is why He will leave any given individual to suffer. God's benevolence is difficult to reconcile when compared to the fact that evil flourishes. This latter is, of course, the primary metaphysical conflict of the present thread, but the problem of theodicy is that people assert for God what can only be true according to different terms than humanity understands either intellectually or viscerally.
In the cases we've explored thus far, the problem primarily pertains to Christian theology. While there are forms of Islamic theodicy, they necessarily attend different boundaries. But there are certain underlying commonalities; one must be careful when and how they attribute demonic or other nefarious influence. One must be cautious when translating God's divine will into mundane and mortal action.
It's complicated. I'm not the only one involved and I don't quite understand it all myself but you can read a brief cryptic synopsis of it in revelation ch 12. I was told I was that woman.
Yeah blah blah blah.
What, exactly are YOU doing?