it's really god's idea, and i think you're thinking of angels with the holy holy chant.
the alternative is to ride it out in this world.
The Ineffability of God's Will
- Thread starter Tiassa
- Start date
it's really god's idea, and i think you're thinking of angels with the holy holy chant.
the alternative is to ride it out in this world.
Entrenchment
Some simplistically thought that our human life in its complexity and intelligence could merely be ascribed to some greater Life of More Complexity and Higher Intelligence, just halting there, suddenly satisfied with even more than that which gave them no satisfaction in the first place, for they were entrenched into the notion.
Did they care that they’d switched horses? No, for they were entrenched. They had ‘answered’ complexity with more, but where could this end, begging the question? It never could, for the error had been to go in the complete wrong direction to explain the composite.
Their second error was to ignore the correct direction, for complexity can only become of its composite parts and sub-parts, such as shown through solar system formation and evolution by natural selection.
Could their notion of a Higher Intelligence, too, been that of a higher but naturally evolved Life Form? No, for then that could have been all the more true of the lessor case of us evolving. Thus, the Higher Form had to be first and fundamental, but, of course, one cannot have complexity as a beginning, for it must have composition and be dependent on that. Did they care? No, for they were entrenched in their notion.
So now they had an infinitely worse case than when they had begun, for there was now a massive Intelligence just sitting around unaccounted for. One would then think that surely all the more by their reasoning there would have to be MORE INTELLIGENCE behind this, but, no, for they were at their wit’s end after going but one level up, never even considering the opposite downward levels of composition that have even been shown by science.
Some even had it that species were made intact and immutable just a few thousand years ago, and that the Earth was flat and fixed. Some were so deeply entrenched that they could never be extracted.
They resorted to crabbiness, even blaming scientific truth for the roots of atheism, forgetting that all of their ‘truths’ were invisible and couldn’t be shown at all. Well, science is partly the root, and rightly so.
Can any more errors be made, after the big two? Sure, they can dishonestly preach their notion as truth and fact to the unsuspecting, and then even go to war, both personally and nationally, to protect the notion, even from some similar but variant notions. It’s become too expensive to throw things out of the stained-glass window; yet, science throw things out when they don’t work.
Complexity is ever begotten by a higher complexity? Baloney. Complexity is made of lessor and lessor simplicity, which is even seen. We took 14 billion years to become. That’s 14,000 million years, and a million years is a 1000 millennia. Why such a mindlessly slow process? Because that’s only what it was.
The entrenched must neglect.
Look to our own future for more complexity, not to the simple beginnings. Turn around. Complexity is explained beneath and within, not above and beyond—which would just be an endless regress of more intelligences to be accounted for.
How would you know?
i'm not talking about a literal baby; i'm talking about what happened to me. please don't make light of it. it was really bad for a while. i think you know some of that.
How so? Didn't Jesus die physically? Can't very well procreate. Besides...Can't you see that over and over in the Bible where God attempted to "fix" the world at different times like the fall of Adam and Eve, then the Flood, and then the blood sacrifice. None of this has "fixed" the world like you are wanting.
I know, I should be bouncing around cheering on an annihilation instead as that is the "loving" thing to do.
Why can't I be appalled by the violence that goes on in the world? Do you think I advocate what this youth minister did, Lori? Because I do not.
So big bloody what? You think that God allowed this because he wanted us to have knowledge? You think the only way knowledge could have been ushered in is by getting his precious creation that he claimed to love so very much, to sin and go against his word? That makes no sense.
Especially given the consequences for all to pay.
uhhh I'm not making light of it. I took it that you meant it in a literal sense.
i didn't ignore anything. i took it all in, and it felt like my head exploded. here you are embellishing to embellish and it puts me to sleep.
no i was talking about birthing a kingdom. and the woman in rev ch 12, whatever it all means...
so far it's been really fucking hard. more then than now thank god.
ok, first you mention jesus, and then go on to completely ignore his purpose. uh, hello, but he rose from the dead. that's a pretty important aspect to leave out.
I know, I should be bouncing around cheering on an annihilation instead as that is the "loving" thing to do.
is continuing to suffer the loving thing to do?
then why aren't you willing to sacrifice anything and everything if needed to see that it doesn't go on anymore?
yes, and yes it does make sense. you can't truly know or understand anything until you experience it. after all, he "told" them not to eat and they disregarded it in the face of a lie. why? because they had no idea that such a thing as a lie could exist, and what it could do.
Okay, look let me get this straight (also based on other discussions we've had- Just clearing this up). The purpose of this bloodline is to "fix" this sin feature that the Biblical God allowed to begin with. It was actually his will for Adam and Eve to eat of the tree that he told them not to, so every generation suffers because Adam and Eve did what you believe God really wanted them to do to begin with. All so later on down the line, Jesus would die and come back to planet earth and procreate to start this Stepford World you so are looking forward to. Is that right?
Suffering is subjective. If others are not suffering why should they go through this annihilation that you're so hip on?
You're absolutely right. I will stop masturbating and watching porn.
Nope
So it was God's intention for man to suffer throughout the generations?
What a freakin' sweet, generous and loving God.
uke:That makes as much sense as a fish doing it with a horse. He left them open to the most manipulative snake (which God was aware of and what the outcome would be). But as you said they were ignorant. They had no clue. This means that they were not properly equipped to discern. Yet, it's okay that God infects A&E on down the line with "sin" because they were unable to make a decision that would not harm them or the rest of the generations to come. Yet, they are doing what God really wanted them to do to begin with. *eyes go crossed* All the while, knowing souls would go to hell because of it. God couldn't just have created man and woman with a built in understanding of what sin is without going through all of this acid trip bullshit? He is God, after all he can do anything, including that!
god is omniscient because he is the law, and because he is not subject to the constraints of time and space. what that means is that he knew what adam and eve would choose to do before they did. now that doesn't necessarily mean that he wanted them to, or that he finds all of this suffering pleasant, and he's sitting back with an evil laugh enjoying the show. the fact that he provided us with a way out suggests quite the opposite; that he wants an end to suffering as much or more than i do.
but imo, i think it's better to know and to understand why the law is what it is, and what the possibilities are. knowledge is good; it's empowering, and it also provides the basis for true love and trust. that can't be based in ignorance.
how about because they give a flying fuck about the ones who are?
You're absolutely right. I will stop masturbating and watching porn.
you don't give a flying fuck. and besides, without masturbation you'd be celibate.
it would help you to at least understand the limitations of your own logic capabilities.
So it was God's intention for man to suffer throughout the generations?
What a freakin' sweet, generous and loving God.
That makes as much sense as a fish doing it with a horse. He left them open to the most manipulative snake (which God was aware of and what the outcome would be). But as you said they were ignorant. They had no clue. This means that they were not properly equipped to discern. Yet, it's okay that God infects A&E on down the line with "sin" because they were unable to make a decision that would not harm them or the rest of the generations to come. Yet, they are doing what God really wanted them to do to begin with. *eyes go crossed* All the while, knowing souls would go to hell because of it. God couldn't just have created man and woman with a built in understanding of what sin is without going through all of this acid trip bullshit? He is God, after all he can do anything, including that!
how in the holy hell does your pea brain think that people become equipped to discern?
you know what's hilarious? and i use that term sarcastically...
it's that atheists will claim that religion is a bunch of hocus pocus magical bullshit and that's why they can't believe.
so then you explain to them that it's not magic, it's real live blood and guts...real world stuff.
and then they say, "well that's mean! i'll never believe in a god like that!" you're notorious (at least to me) for wanting some pie in the sky nonexistent impossible solution to a very real problem, and i'm sorry, but you can wish on a star all you want, but it's not going to happen. :shrug:
So, is your contention that Dywydder, et al, cannot possibly know or understand the suffering you've had to endure through birthing a kingdom? I'm just trying to get some perspective on this.
why not?
You wouldn't care, since what you want to make of how you feel must trump all.
Why not "rise up and... violently suppress another, in the name of God," whilst offering an apophatic rationale? Is this really what you are asking?
Would you do something similar in the name of reason? People will do extreme things based on their beliefs. Is anyone beyond extremism?
I didn't say they were retarded, I was using it as an analogy for when you cannot hold people responsible for their actions because they do not have the ability to comprehend the consequences. We do it with children too, they aren't held to account in the same way an adult is.
You do understand analogies, right?
It would not be right to hold certain mentally handicapped people as responsible for their actions as a person with a full grasp of the consequences of their actions. It would be even more immoral to deliberately handicap someone and then punish them because their handicap meant they couldn't understand the consequences. It would be even more immoral to provide infinite punishment for finite crime.
But that is precisely what your god is supposed to have done (and continue doing). That isn't moral unless your definition of morality is so warped that it is worthless.
I love how you have the ego to think god communicates with you, as if you're special, and then you imply I'm the one with the ego. If you can provide evidence for your claims and the truth of your religion then I'll believe. I might not worship but I'd believe. Until then you're the one with the ego for thinking you're worth the attention of the creator of the universe.
So why is it okay for god to hold us to account for the crimes of our ancestors who, by your own admission, didn't have any understanding of what deception was.
It takes a few years of life before children realise their actions have consequences and that some things are not to be done because of the impact on others. No one locks up a 4 year old or would sentence them to death for a crime because they don't understand the consequences. Adam and Eve were like children, in that they were mentally not very old, and they have 100% complete innocence wired into them by god. To hold them accountable and punish them at all is dubious. To punish all of their descendent is wrong.
You have yet to explain how on Earth you think the actions of god can be just. No rational person would say that just because god says "This is just" that it makes his actions just so please don't just spout that. I've seen you say in this thread things like "Doing the right thing". How do you know what the right thing is? Is something right just because god does it? Is anything god does just and right? I hope you don't follow that line of reasoning else you'd endorse slavery and genocide, which god endorsed many times in the bible.
There is no rational way to justify infinite punishment for finite crimes, especially when the punishment is enacted on the descendent of the person who supposedly did wrong and especially when its god's fault A&E couldn't understand the consequences of their actions. It's like putting a gun in the hand of a baby and then blaming it when it blows its head off. I'm glad there's evidence the bible isn't literally true because if it were the creator of the universe is a dick.
I regard the much vaunted "reason" of the post-Enlightenment era much in the same fashion as I regard this sort of "religious" extremism: another tool for subjecting and oppressing the other, and establishing a new or preserving the existing hierarchies.
So in short: no.
Again: no. Regardless, there are few--if any--legitimate rationales or tactics for "violently suppressing another"; even when perverse notions such as "justice" and whatnots are factored into the equations.
Right. Of course, you can show that you've actually done this I suppose?
*Chimpy grabs wooden baseball bat, looks filled with purpose*
That's just a weird idea there, the idea that having sex with yourself counts as actual sex. I mean, the worst that can happen is maybe carpal tunnel syndrome or chafing. Unless you do it with a vacuum cleaner.:bugeye: Not recommended.
(Although now that I think about it, maybe I'll start a thread in human science titled "Epic masturbation injuries")
But he allowed the suffering in the first place...supposedly, which just seems very warped.
Allowed the suffering why?
And condemns us to suffer a hideous afterlife based on being as he made us?
As George Carlin said about God:
(from: http://www.rense.com/general69/obj.htm)