Stun guns and cops.

[S.A.M.]

In 1988, Angela Valdez, suffered a miscarriage after she was shot in the abdomen with a taser. The news media did pick up this story, and it is printed in the Orlando Sentinel, 6/16/1991. Another U.S. woman suffered a miscarriage the day after taser darts sent a current across her uterus, according to the New Scientist, 8/11/2001. Then, on December 11, 2001, police in Chula Vista, CA shot a six months pregnant woman in the stomach with a taser. Four days later she delivered a stillborn girl, according to the San Diego Union-Tribune, 6/29/2002.

 

[Baron Max]

As usual, Sam, ye're only telling a tiny part of the story. Why were the women shot with the taser? What was she doing, or holding or threatening? Did she have a gun, a knife? Why was she resisting the police? What led up to the incidents? Etc, etc.

Telling only part of the story is intentionaly misleading and most often causes ill-informed reactions ...sometimes violence and hatred. Is that what ye're trying to do, Sam??? ...as usual??

Baron Max

 

[S.A.M.]

As usual, Sam, ye're only telling a tiny part of the story. Why were the women shot with the taser? What was she doing, or holding or threatening? Did she have a gun, a knife? Why was she resisting the police? What led up to the incidents? Etc, etc.

Telling only part of the story is intentionaly misleading and most often causes ill-informed reactions ...sometimes violence and hatred. Is that what ye're trying to do, Sam??? ...as usual??

Baron Max

Irrelevant. My objective is that tasers qualify as excessive force against pregnant women. If you want the details, references are given, look it up.

 

[Baron Max]

Irrelevant. My objective is that tasers qualify as excessive force against pregnant women.

I disagree. Because it's all in how the situation evolved, what was happening, how it all came about.

I.e., if the woman had pulled a gun and threatened the cops, would you agree that the taser could be used on her ...instead of guns???

Baron Max

 

[S.A.M.]

I disagree. Because it's all in how the situation evolved, what was happening, how it all came about.

I.e., if the woman had pulled a gun and threatened the cops, would you agree that the taser could be used on her ...instead of guns???

Baron Max

I believe cops usually travel in twos and are trained to deal with aggression.

Are you telling me that two cops (be they male or female) are no match for one pregnant woman?

 

[Baron Max]

I believe cops usually travel in twos and are trained to deal with aggression. Are you telling me that two cops (be they male or female) are no match for one pregnant woman?

Did she have a gun? Did she have a knife? Did she have a club? Was she a big woman? Was she a strong woman? Had the cops already tried to subdue her but were afraid of harming the baby with physical force? Was she wanted for murder? Was she wanted for violently attacking someone? Was she carrying a suitcase nuke?

Sorry, Sam, ....you're just stirring the pot again in order to make people react with anger and hatred and possibly violence. That's always your motivation in threads like this ....feed the members just bits and pieces of stories so as to make them react. Those are similar to the tactics of the vicious, Muslim terrorists of the world, ain't it?

Baron Max

 

[S.A.M.]

Here is one case for example:

According to the lawsuit, a black female officer on Sept. 18 told Phelps outside his home at 9124 S. Francisco Ave. that the police department had received a noise complaint after 11 p.m. and that he should turn down the music at his daughter's wedding reception, NBC5's Renee Ferguson reported.

Phelps, who is also black, said he turned off the music, but the officer did not leave, according to the lawsuit. When Phelps approached the officer to ask why she was still on his premises, she demanded his identification and called for backup, the lawsuit states.

But, according to a statement from the Evergreen Park Police Department, the officer called for backup after Phelps called the officer an expletive.

Another officer arrived and tried to arrest Phelps, who police claim pushed the officer. That's when Phelps was shot with a Taser gun. According to Phelps' attorney, the officer used the stun gun without provocation.

Phelps, who is a part-time state police officer and truck driver, was then taken into custody, Ferguson reported.

In court documents, Madison states she saw what happened to her father, screamed, and asked the officer to stop. The officer allegedly turned the Taser gun toward her and threatened the bride with it, according to the lawsuit.

Madison ran into the home, and one of the officers followed. That officer then allegedly shot Madison with the Taser gun twice in the abdomen, despite being told by witnesses that she was pregnant.

A prong from the stun gun reportedly became lodged in Madison's stomach and had to be removed by paramedics, Ferguson said.

A third officer allegedly held a gun to Madison's head as she was being arrested.

After being released from custody, Madison sought medical care and doctors told her the unborn child's vital signs were weak and that tests would show whether she would lose the baby, according to a news release from the law firm of Richardson, Stasko, Boyd & Mack.

http://www.nbc4.tv/news/3768716/detail.html


And there have been civil cases:
http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?id=12314&printsafe=1

Authorities in several states, including Ohio, Arizona, Illinois and New Mexico, have taken Tasers out of service or launched inquiries into the risks after cases such as these:

CINDI GRIPPI
Cindi Grippi had broken no law and was not involved in any kind of disruptive behaviour when police delivered the 50,000-volt Taser shock that her lawyer insists killed her unborn baby.

Ms Grippi, a six-months pregnant Californian housewife, was involved in a domestic dispute with her husband and ignored an officer's request not to try to return to her house.

She was shot in the back and, her muscles paralysed, fell stomach-first on to a concrete driveway. She was discharged from hospital after a check-up that night, but delivered a stillborn baby 12 days after the incident in 2001.

A prenatal expert consulted by Ms Grippi's lawyer said that the electric shock was the most likely cause. She later won damages of $675,000 from the city of Chula Vista.

Taser International does not recommend the use of Tasers on pregnant women because of the risk of injury or miscarriage in a fall, though it says there is no medical evidence to suggest the unborn baby would be harmed by the electric shock.

JOHN COX
To friends and family, John Cox, 39, was a kind-hearted man who ran errands for neighbours in Bellport, New York state. But to police who were called to a disturbance at his girlfriend's house last month, he was a violent maniac who injured nine officers before being subdued with five Taser jolts. Mr Cox's death, the most recent Taser-related fatality in the US, has reopened the debate about the effect of stun weapons on those under the influence of drink or drugs.

Mr Cox took prescription drugs for schizophrenia and a bipolar disorder, and a post-mortem revealed cocaine and alcohol in his bloodstream. A police report claims the first few shocks had no effect.

CHRISTOPHER HERNANDEZ
Christopher Hernandez, 19, was killed last December after he was hit twice with a Taser and doused with a substance similar to pepper spray as he fought police during a robbery at a store in Naples, Florida. He was the third suspect to die in Florida in the same month.

In the wake of his death, investigators struggled to determine if the Taser was to blame, or if it was his suspected use of cocaine.

ALFRED DIAZ
Alfred Diaz, 29, was killed in April last year after officers in Orange County, Florida, were called to a disturbance at his home. He died after being subdued with at least two jolts from Taser guns. Police claimed they had to restrain him because of his erratic behaviour. The exact cause of death was unknown, but a post-mortem examination suggested cardiac arrest. Mr Diaz had no history of drugs.

And what about this?

The school's principal called 911 after the child broke a picture frame in her office and waved a piece of glass to keep people away from him.

When two Miami-Dade officers arrived the scene the boy had already cut himself under his eye and cut a large gash in his hand.

The officers tried to reason with the boy, but when he started cutting his own leg, they shocked him with a Taser. They then grabbed him to prevent him from hurting himself when he hit the floor and called an ambulance.

Miami Police say the Taser was necessary to prevent the boy from seriously harming himself with the glass.

The boy is 6-years old.

http://www.prisonplanet.tv/Pages/Nov_04/131104_taser.html

And this?

Police taser 75-year-old at nursing home

October 20, 2004 | The Herald
By Matt Garfield The Herald

The Rock Hill Police Department is investigating why an officer used an electric stun gun on a 75-year-old woman who refused to leave a nursing home where she had gone to visit an ailing friend.

The woman, Margaret Kimbrell, said she suffered bruises on her leg and face after she was knocked to the floor by the force of the weapon, called a Taser. According to the police report, Kimbrell was sitting in a chair in a waiting area when Macon, 35, ordered her to leave several times. Kimbrell refused, jerking her arms away when Macon tried to lead her toward the door.

Police say Kimbrell eventually got up but walked toward the cafeteria after spotting someone she knew. At that point, the officer blocked Kimbrell and told her she was under arrest. Kimbrell then swung her arm at the officer, according to the police report.

That's when Macon used the Taser and placed Kimbrell under arrest.

Kimbrell on Tuesday disagreed with that version of events.

She said she did not swing her arm or threaten Macon.

"As weak as I am, how could I do that?" said Kimbrell, who has arthritis and suffered six broken ribs in a recent fall in her back yard. "Maybe I was trespassing, but I didn't know it. I thought they would understand."

She said she got upset because no one would tell her where her friend was -- or even if he was alive.

"I thought he had died," she said. "I was trying to keep from crying."

Kimbrell said Macon pressed the Taser to her back and used it during the exchange, causing Kimbrell to hit the floor.

"It was the worst pain," said Kimbrell. "It felt like something going through my body. I thought I was dying. I said, 'Lord, let it be over.'"

Kimbrell said she asked the officer and others at the scene to dial 911 because she was hurt. According to the police report, no one was injured in the incident.

Macon could not be reached for comment.

Kimbrell, of 1211 Meadow Lakes Road, was taken to the police department and later issued a citation for resisting police and trespassing. She spent three hours in a police holding area until her daughter, Donna, picked her up around 10 p.m., she said.

http://www.infowars.com/print/ps/taser_oldwoman.htm

 

[Baron Max]

Ahh, Sam ....almost everyone here has admitted that there have been some bad cases of taser use. But there's been bad cases of almost everything ...even with cops subduing a suspect physically and without undue violence.

Sam, you're just trying to incite over-reaction and hatred. ...just very similar to the tactics used by the violent Muslim terrorists ...incite the people with hatred, then attack, attack, attack!

Leave it be, Sam ...you're just showing your ignorance and hatred.

Baron Max

 

[S.A.M.]

Ahh, Sam ....almost everyone here has admitted that there have been some bad cases of taser use. But there's been bad cases of almost everything ...even with cops subduing a suspect physically and without undue violence.

Sam, you're just trying to incite over-reaction and hatred. ...just very similar to the tactics used by the violent Muslim terrorists ...incite the people with hatred, then attack, attack, attack!

Leave it be, Sam ...you're just showing your ignorance and hatred.

Baron Max

I'm glad you agree that there can be misuse.

Do you think it would help if there were regulations and training in the use of tasers by cops? For example, under what conditions and how many times it could be used?

 

[Baron Max]

Do you think it would help if there were regulations and training in the use of tasers by cops? For example, under what conditions and how many times it could be used?

They already are trained and there are already regulations for it's use in all law enforcement agrencies in the USA.

Sam, a few instances of poor judgement or misuse is simply that ....poor judgement or misuse. But to imply that it's widespread horrors of police work is just bullshit.

There are more instances of misuse of kitchen knives, but you don't say anything at all about that. Why? There are more instances of drug overdose than taser misuse, but you don't say anything aobut that. Why?

Sam, you need to learn a little about perspective ......you ain't got none, and you need to go down to the local store and buy yourself a healthy dose of it!

Baron Max

 

[S.A.M.]

They already are trained and there are already regulations for it's use in all law enforcement agrencies in the USA.

Sam, a few instances of poor judgement or misuse is simply that ....poor judgement or misuse. But to imply that it's widespread horrors of police work is just bullshit.

There are more instances of misuse of kitchen knives, but you don't say anything at all about that. Why? There are more instances of drug overdose than taser misuse, but you don't say anything aobut that. Why?

Sam, you need to learn a little about perspective ......you ain't got none, and you need to go down to the local store and buy yourself a healthy dose of it!

Baron Max

The cops are misusing kitchen knives and drugs too!!
I had no idea, I'll get right down to it.

 

[Baron Max]

The cops are misusing kitchen knives and drugs too!! I had no idea, I'll get right down to it.

More stirring the shit-pot, Sam? Trying your best to get people angry and upset? Terrorist tactics, huh, Sam???? You've learned it well.

Baron Max

 

[S.A.M.]

More stirring the shit-pot, Sam? Trying your best to get people angry and upset? Terrorist tactics, huh, Sam???? You've learned it well.

Baron Max

I never called you a shit pot Baron, why would you think of yourself like that? Even if you do seem stirred up quite a bit?

Anyway, what do you think could be done so pregnant women and young children are spared such horrors? Do you have any ideas?

 

[Tiassa]

Police brutes

What if its a person who is unwell? Can the police tell the difference?

yes they can. if they are ranting and raving and not obeying the cops directions then they are ill, in fact they are crazy.

I must disagree with Leopold; specifically, either the police cannot tell when someone is not well, or they can and simply don't care. Recently, police arrested a 20 year-old with Down's syndrome for domestic violence. She was booked initially on $10,000 bail, though the judge lowered that to $150. Even the woman's "victim" disagrees with the arrest:

Perkins said her daughter shouldn't have been locked up.

"They asked me to write a statement," said Perkins, who has a second daughter with autism. "I said I would not write a statement. I didn't feel threatened (by Wallis) in any way, shape or form."

The state's domestic violence laws require officers to arrest an aggressor if they have good reason to believe someone has assaulted a relative, Everett police Lt. Chris Andersen said. (Seattle Post-Intelligencer)​

In arresting the girl and demanding $10,000 bail, the fact of her Down's syndrome was overlooked. Either the cops couldn't figure it out, or they just didn't care.

In lighter news, a courthouse marshall in Everett, Washington, walked over my daughter last week and told me to keep control of her. Since I had hold of the child at the time, I asked him what he thought I was doing, and his response was that if I was going to sass him, I could leave the courthouse. (Yes, he actually said, "If you're going to sass me.") In Everett, authority is pretty stupid; badges seem to mean that you don't have to watch where you're walking, and the really fun part comes when you get to arrest the retards.

Now, I've seen people who aren't cops take it under difficult circumstances. I once watched a severely-disturbed junior high school student try to beat the crap out of the vice-principal. The man was 6'4, over 200 pounds, and he just stood there and took it. (This kid was not a threat, in his opinion.) And I admire him for that decision. Tasers weren't big at the time, so I guess the cops would have just shot the poor kid.

To the other, police have many strange pressures to deal with. Several years ago, the Seattle Police Department handled a crazy man with a sword the calm, rational way. They tried everything, including gas and hoses. In the end, they got him, alive, well, and shaking cold. It took eleven hours. The public outcry was amazing, and SPD has since accommodated the demand, preferring instead to simply shoot the insane. ("If they look at you, kill 'em.")

I prefer nonlethal solutions, but these require a certain amount of unique discretion, especially something like a Taser. The attitudes of law enforcement in this area presents a sticky compromise: they may be brutal idiots, so Tasers and gas are a godsend compared to just shooting people.

Police should be able to make certain distinctions regarding the people and suspects they encounter, but that makes the job harder and takes all the fun out of it.

 

[cole grey]

1) if a pregnant woman gets crazy with the cops it is equally her fault for putting the child at risk in the situation that follows.

2) better a taser than a gunshot

3) the safety of the police has to be taken into account as well.

4) there will always be incidents of excessive or indiscrete use of force, and in no way should they be condoned, and a taser may be a surreptitious way to exert excessive force, but the majority of police are not sadistic or murderous, and the minority who are would use their fists and batons to the same effect anyway.

 

[MetaKron]

Ahh, Sam ....almost everyone here has admitted that there have been some bad cases of taser use. But there's been bad cases of almost everything ...even with cops subduing a suspect physically and without undue violence.

Sam, you're just trying to incite over-reaction and hatred. ...just very similar to the tactics used by the violent Muslim terrorists ...incite the people with hatred, then attack, attack, attack!

Leave it be, Sam ...you're just showing your ignorance and hatred.

Baron Max

Crawl back under your bridge, troll.

 

[MetaKron]

Some people seem unable to see that police can do wrong. We need to demand, as Tiassa mentioned, that the police do the job that they are handled to do, and yes, use the kid gloves if at all possible.

 

[leopold]

I must disagree with Leopold;

that's okay. you probably don't like getting a speeding ticket either.
the fact of the matter is a cops job is not an easy or happy lot.

except for the man on the gurney. . .

it doesn't matter, the law is the law. if you don't like the law then get it repealed. until then the cops are sworn to enforce it.

and another thing how much experience do you have with the police?
without the experience tiassa all you've said doesn't really amount to a damn.

you want to know why i am so adamant about this? i have the experience, more than i care to admit. so you see it's really hard for me to accept this 'police brutality' bullshit.

edit
i asked sam the same question about experience.
her answer? i have no experience with the police in america.
so in effect all she "knows" is what she is willing to believe. that's really being objective isn't it?

 

[leopold]

cop: the reason i stopped you was because you were speeding
prego: okay
cop: if you will sign this ticket you can be on your way
prego: no.
cop: if you don't sign i'll have to take you to jail
prego: i'm not signing
cop: i'll have to arrest you
prego: i'm not signing
cop: you are now under arrest, please step out of the car
prego: no
cop: if you don't step out of the car i'll have to cite you for resisting arrest
prego: i'm not getting out
(the cop displasys his taser and lets the woman see and hear it}
prego: i'm not getting out
(cop zaps her with the taser to get her to comply}
prego: i'm not getting out
{cop zaps her again}
prego: i'm not getting out
(cops zaps her a third time at which point she gets out)


sam cdkey: oh my fucking god ! ! ! that is so outragous. she was zapped because she was black and speeding.

 

[leopold]

Some people seem unable to see that police can do wrong.

i don't remember ever making that statement.

use the kid gloves if at all possible.

of course! cops are always called to break up squabbles at the little league.