Stun guns and cops.
- Thread starter S.A.M.
- Start date
Actually I figure that anyone who can justify RETARDED children being tasered is not worth the bother.
i'm sorry if i'm not politicly correct enough for you.
you gonna cry semantics sam?
You don't have to please everyone on the planet. And neither do they need to gratify you.
sam
contrary to what you might think i am on the side of what is right and just.
the issue here is stun gun deaths and to a lesser extent police brutality.
maybe you don't realize it but the police has every right to bring certain circumstances under controll by whatever means is necessary.
of all the cases you presented ALL of them was breaking the law.
of all the taser uses, except 1 or 2, was justified.
of all the deaths you cited NONE was due soley to taser use.
if you are not a cop or have no experience with police and the justice system you are ill equiped to argue these points.
Yes, if someone says its the law and any means can be used as defined by the legal system of the country, no one must question it. Saddam will agree. Heil Hitler.
is that what i said?
you have absolutely no intention of looking at this objectively.
Had too many turkey dinners last week. Broiled, grilled, fried, you name it I had it. I looked in the fridge and I have oodles of turkey. Even my deli meat is turkey.
But, Happy Thanksgiving.
Excessive force is not objective. It actually hurts.
And I strongly believe that curing a disease by killing the patient does not a good doctor make.
http://www.lapd.com/article.aspx?a=4371
http://www.cvgs.k12.va.us/digstats/main/inferant/a_cops.html
In most Western legal systems, the major role of the police is to maintain order, keeping the peace through enforcement of laws and societal norms. They also function to discourage deter and investigate crimes, with particular emphases on crime against persons, property or the law, and the maintenance of public order, and if able to apprehend suspected perpetrator(s), to detain them, and inform the appropriate authorities.
notice the word 'suspects' in the paragraph sam.
if the cops suspect you of a crime be it you are guilty or not they can arrest you.
if you resist arrest then they have every right to use whatever force is necessary to detain you.
it's that simple.
also notice the words 'deter' and 'discourage' in regards to crime.
in your most objective words can you tell me what that means?
http://www.cvgs.k12.va.us/digstats/main/inferant/a_cops.html
In most Western legal systems, the major role of the police is to maintain order, keeping the peace through enforcement of laws and societal norms. They also function to discourage deter and investigate crimes, with particular emphases on crime against persons, property or the law, and the maintenance of public order, and if able to apprehend suspected perpetrator(s), to detain them, and inform the appropriate authorities.
notice the word 'suspects' in the paragraph sam.
if the cops suspect you of a crime be it you are guilty or not they can arrest you.
if you resist arrest then they have every right to use whatever force is necessary to detain you.
it's that simple.
also notice the words 'deter' and 'discourage' in regards to crime.
in your most objective words can you tell me what that means?
Deter and discourage to me are words which read as prevent.
IMO, prevention of crime is a better route than treatment.
Education: cops should educate people against victimization, self-defense measures, try to raise awareness for vigilance against crime, build community rapport with the legal system.
Social programs in vulnerable populations like areas where there is greater likelihood of people dropping out, guidance to young people involved in gangs. e.g. anyone who is caught driving drunk should have to join the AA for a couple of years at least and complete x hours of community service or pay huge fines.
Financial penalties: I think people who break the law should be charged for it. If they have to literally pay for their crimes, they are less likely to commit it. And the fines should be a percetage of their income not an absolute value (ie rich people should have to pay more) e.g. if there is a fine for speeding, why not a fine for refusing to sign a ticket, a fine for disobeying a law enforcement officer etc. Of course, I'm not saying that officers should not use stun guns to deal with people who are likely to be armed or dangerous (in such cases they must)but there are more effective measures than physical force when dealing with ordinary everyday people. When dealing with mentally or physically handicapped people who are difficult to control, they should do what doctors do, delegate. A gunshot victim makes a call to the cops a necessity because it is a legal issue. The police should also have medical people on hand when dealing with such or at least have a provision to call them, if they require it. I'm sure in many cases, cops have to wing it (one of my grandfathers was a cop, the other was a judge) and need to make decisions on the spur of the moment but those decisions are usually not questioned if the assailant is lethal or dangerous.
I'm also pretty sure that the cops who use the tasers truly believe them to be completely safe and in many instances they probably are, but electroshock therapy can cause ventricular fibrillation in people on some occasions and it may be hard to isolate that as a cause of death if and when it happens. That is why patients who are shocked (for treatment) are monitored for changes in ECG at all times.
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they do
this is also applied when necessary
they are, it's called a fine.
i'll agree.
the reason a cop arrests you for not signing a ticket is because he then must track you down. if you have moved and provided no forwarding address you have essentially got off scott free. if you refuse to sign s ticket then it is assumed you have no intentions of paying it.
it depends on the circumstances but a cop has the right to arrest you for not obeying his commands. believe me when i say i know where you are coming from sam
ordinary everyday people do not refuse to sign tickets or resist arrest.
they do delegate but it's usually fruitless with the insane.
and it doesn't matter if you are physically challenged or not if you are posing a threat to yourself or others what choice does a cop have? "please do not threaten others?"
they do, they are called EMTs.
what is "lethal"? a person swinging a knife around screaming is most decidedly lethal, it doesn't matter if they are in a wheelchair, 74 years old, or 11 years old.
probably? all the evidence i've seen PROVES they are safe.
what in the name of god has electroshock therapy got to do with the use of stun guns?
leopold:
The taser is no longer being used as an alternative to lethal force. It is being used as a method of torture to force compliance. In today's age, you could be tased for fidgeting in handcuffs, or mouthing off to the cops.
John99:
Retard.
Go back to being abused by your own police force, who claim to 'protect and serve' you. Yeah, continuously using an instrument of pain on someone in handcuffs sure 'protects' the community!
And what of it? As an Australian, I think Americans really need to think about disarming their cops. Judging from recent events, the American police departments appear to have their fair share of thugs and bullies with itchy trigger fingers.
The taser is no longer being used as an alternative to lethal force. It is being used as a method of torture to force compliance. In today's age, you could be tased for fidgeting in handcuffs, or mouthing off to the cops.
John99:
And American corporations seems to have a nasty habit of outsourcing to India. Can't get around that fact.
Retard.
Go back to being abused by your own police force, who claim to 'protect and serve' you. Yeah, continuously using an instrument of pain on someone in handcuffs sure 'protects' the community!
are you insane mountainhare?
what recent events?
i'll agree that there is such a thing as bad cops. on the other hand i have never met one.
your opinion of course.
proof of this statement?
i'll ask you like i did tiassa and sam, how much experience do you have with law enforcement?
leopald:
No. I'm merely outraged by police brutality. I refuse to stay silent about the abuses perpetrated by those in authority.
Naturally, the sheep will call me insane. Witness O' Brien from '1984' branding Winston 'insane' for fighting against the present social order.
Student repeatedly shot with a Taser by UCLA police. While in handcuffs. Because he couldn't stand up. Fancy that .
My statement is factual, and is supported by a wealth of observations. A taser is only used as an alternative to deadly force in a minority of situations. In most situations, it is used as an instrument of coercion to force compliance in non-lethal situations, where the target isn't a real threat.
If you doubt me, I suggest you educate yourself. Here is an excellent Amnesty International article which analyzes in what situations police tend to use tasers.
web.amnesty.org/library/index/ENGAMR511392004
More often than not, tasers are NOT used as an alternative to deadly force. They used to force compliance in non-lethal situations. This includes citizens who struggle in their handcuffs, children who 'act out' (eg. throw a book), and citizens who gives the police 'attitude'.
No. I'm merely outraged by police brutality. I refuse to stay silent about the abuses perpetrated by those in authority.
Naturally, the sheep will call me insane. Witness O' Brien from '1984' branding Winston 'insane' for fighting against the present social order.
http://dailybruin.com/news/articles.asp?id=38958
Student repeatedly shot with a Taser by UCLA police. While in handcuffs. Because he couldn't stand up. Fancy that
.I'll agree that there is such a thing as a bad Nazi. On the other hand, I have never met one. Nor did most Americans during WWII. Merely because you haven't 'met' any doesn't mean that they aren't prevalent.
No, no. Not my 'opinion'. Fact. I'd appreciate it if you didn't attempt to dismiss facts by labelling them as opinion.
My statement is factual, and is supported by a wealth of observations. A taser is only used as an alternative to deadly force in a minority of situations. In most situations, it is used as an instrument of coercion to force compliance in non-lethal situations, where the target isn't a real threat.
If you doubt me, I suggest you educate yourself. Here is an excellent Amnesty International article which analyzes in what situations police tend to use tasers.
web.amnesty.org/library/index/ENGAMR511392004
More often than not, tasers are NOT used as an alternative to deadly force. They used to force compliance in non-lethal situations. This includes citizens who struggle in their handcuffs, children who 'act out' (eg. throw a book), and citizens who gives the police 'attitude'.
Red herring. My experience in law enforcement is irrelevant. My argumentation stands or falls depending on the validity of the logic and evidence I put forth.