Stuck (primarily for theists)

Dywyddyr said:
OP:

MoM how and why do you think your posts are answering the question? All you're doing is espousing someone's view (either your own or the church's) of how things are.
IOW you're a perfect example of Signal's original point.
Listen to me, because my view is that I'm right. :rolleyes:
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I like it when you say Listen to Me . I get a warm fuzzy feeling when you do .
 
Signal said:
How is this in line with what LG said here - http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=57085 -?
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ouch. that hurt my brain.

you have to at least believe in the possibility of god existing before you could ever justify reaching out to it, or endeavoring to experience, understand, and know it. you would have to assume some characteristics to believe that god would be capable of delivering, and worthy of this endeavor and worship.
 
Me-Ki-Gal said:
What does that mean Mommy. I don't quite get it " Cryptic ? That is the same thing the people said on the maranatha site just before they banned me . Perma banned . I don't understand people that cry "Come Lord " and then they throw away the seed just before planting . The soil must not have been fertile enough. Wonder what they are going to do when Mikey takes up the sickle at harvest time and starts whacking off heads of the wheat. I suppose they will watch them roll like rocks down a cliff and say look at those rolling heads.

One thing about Mikeys is we eat anything . Shit is not that flavorlable . Salt goes a long ways to making it palatable. Sugar and spice almost makes every thing nice . Dogs eat cat shit and it tastes good to dogs , the other shit was like taking bad bad medicine and I still can't get the bad taste out of my mouth
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i think i mean you talk like an artist. :)
 
Lori_7 said:
ouch. that hurt my brain.
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If you can't relate to what he is saying there, then you probably don't understand the problems I am talking about either, or at least you are not able to talk to me in a language I would understand.
 
in order to have X, one first needs X, whereby X
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Yes...and you already have IT in there somewhere...it's a matter of finding it inside yourself.

You won't just magically get it. It will be very unpleasant. And frustrating. And slow.
You will have to wade through garbage that's in there too.
Spiritual quests are just like that.

Please note...you may be looking for an intellectual answer, you strike me as an intellectual person.
It's NOT an intellectual thing, connection to spirit.

But secondhand connection to God(s) doesn't work.

If I could wave my magic wand (which I need to resume working on)...but I can't give it to you.
Only you can, because it's like Ragu...it's in there.
 
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chimpkin said:
Yes...and you already have IT in there somewhere...it's a matter of finding it inside yourself.

You won't just magically get it. It will be very unpleasant. And frustrating. And slow.
You will have to wade through garbage that's in there too.

Spiritual quests are just like that.

But secondhand connection to God(s) doesn't work.

If I could wave my magic wand (which I need to resume working on)...but I can't give it to you.
Only you can, because it's like Ragu...it's in there.
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Did you read LG's thread that I linked to above?
 
Signal said:
It is very simple:
A person who inquires into spiritual matters, sooner or later comes into a situation where in order to have X, one first needs X, whereby X is of vital importance and one doesn't have it yet.

So far, I haven't seen a promising way to resolve it, other than to avoid it altogether, and try to go without X (whatever that X may be in a given situation).
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Then, if at all possible, you put the question to one side.
Ignore it. Work round it.
One day, if the premise has any validity, it will crop up in other aspects of life. Another piece of the puzzle is handed to you (or the shape of the question is better outlined).
Don't bang your head against walls, go round them!
 
Signal said:
I suppose there comes a time when one needs to quit, right?
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Quit? No. (Not necessarily, at least).
Put aside, for now.
Let it stew. Let it mature and settle in the back of your mind.
Let the connections form without you pushing them.
 
Signal said:
If you can't relate to what he is saying there, then you probably don't understand the problems I am talking about either, or at least you are not able to talk to me in a language I would understand.
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i didn't say i couldn't relate; i did relate. i just meant it was difficult to read.

are you telling me that you don't understand what i'm saying?
 
I don't understand what you're saying for the most part.
To me, in order to follow up on the instructions that you give, would require that I first become enlightened (in the Buddhist sense).
 
Signal said:
I don't understand what you're saying for the most part.
To me, in order to follow up on the instructions that you give, would require that I first become enlightened (in the Buddhist sense).
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i don't know much about buddhism signal, but i know what happened to me. i did have to make some assumptions before i could seek god like the possibilty of it's existence, and it's capability to present itself to me, and that it should be worth knowing. i had to consider what that knowledge would mean for me in form of consequences, and the reasons i wanted to know, examine my own intentions, and determine my own desire. iow i had to have some faith in god and in myself before i ever could have sought god. do you understand that?
 
To me, it sounds like a lot of rationalization. Very mental, very heady. Very abstract.
 
Let it mature and settle in the back of your mind.
Let the connections form without you pushing them.
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This is excellent advice.

I skimmed LG's post, and disagree. Just because someone has a religious pedigree a yard long, does not mean you have to accept them as an authority, whole-cloth.

Everyone's connection to That which is is personal.

Going through a religion may help. It may not. Think of religious texts as self-help books pointing to the interior connection you already have and need to bring into better view. Use what works, discard the rest, and be ruthless.

You talk about serving God. In what ways does your heart/spirit/innermost self move you to do this?
Perhaps that's your path.
 
chimpkin said:
You talk about serving God. In what ways does your heart/spirit/innermost self move you to do this?
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Um, you quoted my post yet this question is, I think, directed toward Signal.

The only way I can relate to it is "God! It's about time I got served another Guinness". :p
 
Signal said:
To me, it sounds like a lot of rationalization. Very mental, very heady. Very abstract.
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rationalization for what?

does it sound that way for you because you're looking for someone to say instead...

do this, do that, don't do this, don't do that, do believe this, don't believe that, and you'll be right, you'll be "safe", you'll go to heaven, we'll like you...

and that's just not how it works. you're going to have to dig deeper, inside yourself if you want god and you want answers. you said above that you don't speak that language, but that is the language god speaks. god's not going to dictate rules to you, tell you who to be friends with, where to go to church and when, how to dress, yada yada.

it seems like you're looking for an easy out, and there isn't one.
 
"God! It's about time I got served another Guinness".
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From your lips to God's ear;):D

But yeah, I was talking to Signal...

Lori7 said:
do this, do that, don't do this, don't do that, do believe this, don't believe that, and you'll be right, you'll be "safe", you'll go to heaven, we'll like you...
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Some people can achieve real connection through main-line religion.

Signal, if you could get your answer(as opposed to someone else's) from a regular church, a book, a guru, or even some workshop somewhere... I suspect we all wouldn't be having this conversation.

Which means your answer is probably complicated.

Hmm...another question...have you ever had an experience of looking at something and being awestruck, stunned?
 
I skipped from page 1 to page 10 (10 posts per page)..
so forgive me if i answer with someone else's answer.

test all things, hold on to what is good..

ask everyone their opinion of God, do not assume anyone is the absolute authority when it comes to God.IOW don't stop asking, do not take any one mans opinion, seek multiple opinions, if you are truly seeking God he will show himself through those testimonies.

it is my belief that God shows us what we need to see, that is different from person to person..

reading the bible only helps when you are in a bible study (the ones that actually study it and not dictate what it means.),i mean you can get some ideas about God without bible study but bible study helps to put things in context. (specially when the bible study has historical context)

the more i study the bible and the more i learn about God,the more i believe God is not supposed to be dispensed by the church, we are all capable of knowing God without the church.
(but the Right church does help)
 
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