So they are burning and looting in Baltimore tonight

. . . . the USA doesn't gun down dissidents on the street . . . .
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Well, that has not been true throughout our country's history. When the civil rights campaign (for Afro-Americans) gathered momentum in the 1960s, there were murders. The Selma march in 1965 resulted in at least two African-Americans being shot dead by police.

Five years later in Ohio, a large group of students (I think all of them were white but there might have been a handful of black students) were protesting against the Vietnam War at Kent State University. Although the demonstration was orderly and peaceful, the governor of Ohio called in the National Guard and the soldiers killed four students and left a fifth one permanently paralyzed. The soldiers were poorly supervised: one of the dead students was far from the demonstration and was killed by a stray bullet.

In 1925, the entire Afro-American neighborhood in Tulsa, Oklahoma was burned to the ground and dozens of people were murdered. This incident was not reported in most news media, and as a result most Americans, especially Euro-Americans, didn't even know about it until a few years ago.
 
Fraggle Rocker said:
Well, that has not been true throughout our country's history. When the civil rights campaign (for Afro-Americans) gathered momentum in the 1960s, there were murders. The Selma march in 1965 resulted in at least two African-Americans being shot dead by police.
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Hmm, one death is not murders. It is one death, and the responsible officer was convicted and sentenced.

Fraggle Rocker said:
Five years later in Ohio, a large group of students (I think all of them were white but there might have been a handful of black students) were protesting against the Vietnam War at Kent State University. Although the demonstration was orderly and peaceful, the governor of Ohio called in the National Guard and the soldiers killed four students and left a fifth one permanently paralyzed. The soldiers were poorly supervised: one of the dead students was far from the demonstration and was killed by a stray bullet.
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Commonly referred to as the Kent State Shootings where 4 students were shot and killed.

Fraggle Rocker said:
In 1925, the entire Afro-American neighborhood in Tulsa, Oklahoma was burned to the ground and dozens of people were murdered. This incident was not reported in most news media, and as a result most Americans, especially Euro-Americans, didn't even know about it until a few years ago.
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The Rosewood Massacre, that was a mob. It wasn't a civil protest and agents of the local, state and federal government were not involved.. And if you go back further in our history, you will find instances in which our police and military forces were used against labor protestors. All of those incidents happened more than a half century ago. In the case of Rosewood, nearly a century ago. If you want to throw in mobs, we have had a lot of those. You can throw in the Mountain Meadows Massacre where Mormons along with their Indian compatriots slaughtered a wagon train of settlers traveling West. They weren't protesting either.

This is where tenses are important. The word "doesn't" is present tense. And the fact remains, the US doesn't gun down dissidents in the streets. Nor does it change the fact the US has a very long history of public protest. As previously stated, the USA was born out of civil protest.
 
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joe said:
The word "doesn't" is present tense. And the fact remains, the US doesn't gun down dissidents in the streets. Nor does it change the fact the US has a very long history of public protest.
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The long and bloody history of civil rights marches and conflicts, labor strikes and protests, and antiwar/antidraft protests in the US have seen people killed often enough to be routine. If you are claiming that is over now, what do you think has changed recently?
joe said:
The Rosewood Massacre, that was a mob. It wasn't a civil protest and agents of the local, state and federal government were not involved..
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You have got to be kidding - you honestly think the local police, sheriffs, etc, were not "involved"?
 
iceaura said:
The long and bloody history of civil rights marches and conflicts, labor strikes and protests, and antiwar/antidraft protests in the US have seen people killed often enough to be routine. If you are claiming that is over now, what do you think has changed recently?
You have got to be kidding - you honestly think the local police, sheriffs, etc, were not "involved"?
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Ok, prove your assertions. Let me remind you, the issue is government inflicted deaths. The topic under discussion is present tense, did you not get that?
 
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billvon said:
Yep. Futilitist predicted that the riots would start two years ago (summer of 2013) with the final collapse happening shortly thereafter.
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The place is coming apart at the seams. Hang on, we're in for a rough ride.
 
Seriously. I will be surprised if the place is here in two yrs.
Yep. Futilitist predicted that the riots would start two years ago (summer of 2013) with the final collapse happening shortly thereafter.
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The worry is that those guys are representatives of a larger group, and when things don't fall apart fast enough or completely enough to suit them, they will give things a push.

Rep Party tactics re US government, exhibit A.
 
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iceaura said:
The worry is that those guys are representatives of a larger group, and when things don't fall apart fast enough or completely enough to suit them, they will give things a push.
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The cause and effect that is being overlooked, that is common to all these politics driven police/racial incidents, is these are occurring in cities, that are controlled by the democratic party. All the marches in Washington, Philadelphia, Chicago, NY, Baltimore, are occurring in democratic strongholds, where the most people sense and feel racial tensions. Yet this tension is being blamed, by the democrats on the republicans, who have little say in those cities; minority political representation.

This bait and switch scam is expected because the democratic party was party of slavery until 1960's, when civil rights divided the democratic party in northern and southern democrats; Kennedy and Wallace. I would guess the current situation for the blacks, living in large democrat controlled cities, is consistent with the historical ideology of the democratic party; segregation.

Because there are laws in place, the trick for the new segregation is to fool the blacks into thinking the republicans or the party of Lincoln, somehow has control over these cities, and the democrats leadership are just figureheads, doing their best, but under the control of rich republicans. The democratic base, which is highly illiterate, can't read and research this claim, so they just follows the induced feelings of an evil bogey man.

If you compare the violence on blacks by police, to violence on blacks by other blacks, the former is a small percent of the total, but it is being treated, by the democratic paid demonstrators, as the majority effect in those democratic controlled cities. Again illiteracy and feelings play a role in people unable to reason the data, so they relying on induced emotions to guide them. The goal is the same, which is to push the blame away from the source of the problem to another.

The solution involves figuring of how to deal with people with a diminished capacity to reason, so the root of the problem can be brought to light and real solutions can be offered. You can't solve fake problems, except with fake solutions that perpetuate segregation.
 
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So Much for Unequivocal Support

This morning the State Attorney in Baltimore, Marilyn Mosby, announced arrest warrants for the six police officers involved in the death of Freddy Gray; charges include Misconduct in Office, Assault 2, False Imprisonment, Involuntary Manslaughter, and for one officer, Caesar R. Goodson Jr., Second Degree Depraved Heart Murder.

We have not yet heard from the Fraternal Order of Police in Baltimore regarding the warrants; FPOB has previously demanded "unequivocal support for law enforcement", declaring such fealty essential to the survival of American society.
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Notes:

Lee, Trymaine and David Taintor. "Baltimore State Attorney Marilyn Mosby: Officers charged in death of Freddie Gray". msnbc. 1 May 2015. msnbc.com. 1 May 2015. http://on.msnbc.com/1GCoIsz
 
Tiassa said:
So Much for Unequivocal Support

This morning the State Attorney in Baltimore, Marilyn Mosby, announced arrest warrants for the six police officers involved in the death of Freddy Gray; charges include Misconduct in Office, Assault 2, False Imprisonment, Involuntary Manslaughter, and for one officer, Caesar R. Goodson Jr., Second Degree Depraved Heart Murder.

We have not yet heard from the Fraternal Order of Police in Baltimore regarding the warrants; FPOB has previously demanded "unequivocal support for law enforcement", declaring such fealty essential to the survival of American society.
____________________

Notes:

Lee, Trymaine and David Taintor. "Baltimore State Attorney Marilyn Mosby: Officers charged in death of Freddie Gray". msnbc. 1 May 2015. msnbc.com. 1 May 2015. http://on.msnbc.com/1GCoIsz
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as we found out with darren wilson's trial indicting them is meaningless if they plan on having a show trial designed to produce an aquital.
 
Long over due, but Finally, color blind justice is starting!

Marilyn Mosby, a lawyer by education, whose both parents and several close relatives, were police officers, plus a grandfather cop who was the founder of Boston's Order of Black Police Officers, has put a real blind fold on Lady Justice. - Showing that the wheels of justice can equally turn for all, even if the policed killed dead body has dark skin. - Lady Justice no longer will look at the body to see what type of justice is required.

This may be as historic a turning point for America as when Rosa Parks went to jail instead of the back of the bus as white authority told her too. I hope so, anyway.

I hope and expect that this time, unlike Fergusson or LA where four cops were video recorded beating Rodney King senseless for several minutes, yet later acquitted of any wrong doing, Baltimore may not burn - dozens dead and millions of dollars damage done in the LA riots (of 1992, I think). If Lady Justice does keep her color blind eyes and the facts are as now reported, the van driver who killed Freddy Gray, will go to jail for at least 20 years (30 is max possible for 2nd degree homicide).

If that happens, it will be only a few years, in a jail dominated by black men, before he wishes they had executed after the trial or takes his own life.
Even if no physical harm comes to Goodson in prison, the constant intense fear it might, may drive him insane.
 
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