Show me the evidence.

[Cris]

hef,

Hi and welcome to sciforums.

and you must have a creator,

Why? What is your justification for such a claim?

it's not a grey hair zeus, or a blonde hair blue eyes Jesus, ect

A curious statement. It is interesting you thought it relevant to state this.

....consider it submitting to our source,

But first you need to show that such a being was such a source otherwise your remaining arguments are meaningless.

doesn't mean we're admiting inadequacy, on the contrary it provides solid grounds for building on.

And if we re-define sin to mean a lack of personal understanding of ones capabilities and a lack of knowledge and wisdom, then we could probably reach agreement. The presence or need of a creator though would of course be superfluous.

By you saying that there's no source for the creation of humans and thus no basis, you've just made us all inadequate.

That is a non sequitur. There is no link shown here between matters of inadequacy and the presence or non-presence of a creator, your statement is an unsupported assertion.

Sin is not disobediance to god, it's harming the self and undermining one's great destiny.

From Webster –

1 a : an offense against religious or moral law b : an action that is or is felt to be highly reprehensible *it's a sin to waste food* c : an often serious shortcoming : FAULT

2 a : transgression of the law of God b : a vitiated state of human nature in which the self is estranged from God.

In the realm of a religious discussion sin is a religious term and in effect means an offense to either God or his laws, i.e. disobedience of what God has commanded.

Harming oneself or affecting one’s alleged destiny is a secondary consequence.

Reading your words, you're not much different than a brain washed christian, or a brain washed muslim, you're just a brain washed aetheist....Same thing...diddo.

I’ve described how Christian brainwashing operates with examples. Your statement here is another baseless assertion. Can you support your statement by explaining how you believe I have been brainwashed?

 

[heflores]

Originally posted by Vienna
Originally posted by Heflores

you're just a brain washed aetheist....Same thing...diddo.


Y'know something, atheists are very intelligent people, they are people who can live their life without the need for a crutch....the crutch of religion.

Oh...now I'm so damn enlightened. Atheists are stupid....they're stupid beyond belief. Atheists are spiritually immature individuals. I used to be one, a real bad one too. I started when I was three and continued through my teen age years. I drove my parents nuts... But after I realized that I was only driving myself nuts, I lucked out and found a better way..

Aethiests think they're so smart, that they literally refuse help in any form or shape.... They rebel on their own rebelious thoughts. You're right aeithism have no crutch to rely on. It's a disease that exist among the youth and may extent to the thirties or fourties, people rarely die with that disease. The only good things about aetheists is that when they finally find their way to god they become the best balanced creatures in the universe. Too few survive the disease though.

 

[Xelios]

I started when I was three and continued through my teen age years. I drove my parents nuts... But after I realized that I was only driving myself nuts, I lucked out and found a better way..

Really? That's basically my story too, except I went from Christianity to Agnosticism/weak atheism and my parents weren't driven nuts by it.

Aethiests think they're so smart, that they literally refuse help in any form or shape

What kind of help are you talking about? Help from God? If I told you I believed in a flying pink elephant and that he was our creator, and you refused to listen, could I say that you think you are so smart and refuse any help?

It's a disease that exist among the youth and may extent to the thirties or fourties, people rarely die with that disease.

In your opinion of course. In my opinion, God does not exist. In my opinion, people believe in God because it answers their questions, the problem is the answers are not right. Just as people once believed the Earth was flat, people will come to realize (hopefully) that God is simply an outdated attempt at explaining the unknown.

 

[heflores]

Originally posted by Cris
hef,

Hi and welcome to sciforums.

Why? What is your justification for such a claim?

A curious statement. It is interesting you thought it relevant to state this.

But first you need to show that such a being was such a source otherwise your remaining arguments are meaningless."

Ok.
Now you're talking, let's define the supreme source of creation. But before I enter in such lengthy and drawn out discussion, we must agree on the method for defining the source of creation

Based on mathematical foundations. A function that complicated as the source of creation is definetly indeterminante dendant function. It depends on many many variables. I work in the environmental field, water resources in specific. If I'm to define a phenomena and reach a solution, I have the following options:
*Exact solution (That doesn't exist, it could be easily proofed that 1+1 is not always equal to 2)
*Empirical or semi empirical solution. (These are solutions that I may use, but I know full well that they're not exact and derived from historical data)
*Probablisitic solution (This could be used if the problem is too too difficult, currently hydrology is a probabilistic science. This solution is too damn inaccurate and only based on compilation of few paramaters over very few times.)

I will be bold and I'll say that you're knowledge of the source of creation can only be based on probabilistic solutions, for you can not claim to me that you know more about such a complicated subject than you know about rainfall, and that's a much much much much easier subject. So my question to all aethiests, why are you claiming to know that there is no god when you have no proof of such a thing???. You would ask me of course, then what makes me believe that there is a god without a proof??.

I say, as far as proofing things to each other, we're tit for tat, for we're using the same state of the art knowledge. The only thing that I have on top of you is that I hide within me something that I can't share with you, and actually I don't want to share it with you, you see it's mine, call me selfish, but I think it's so cool and oh so fullfilling. When you get that thing or that answer, you'll hide it too. It's special, it's fulfilling, it's awesome, it's infinite, it's heaven. This thing or feeling is what people mistake it as religion.

It's not, it's a personal connection with your creator, that can't be described under the current state of the art science.

 

[heflores]

To all aethiests?

Remeber, "the burden of proof that a creator does not exist is equal to the burden of proof that a creator exist."

You may not use the stupid argument that if you don't see the creator then it doesn't exist, because I don't see sound waves and I know they exist.

keep me interested, or I'll be out of here, I'm looking for challenges, not to educate others. I got kids at home that I can educate all I want.

 

[ConsequentAtheist]

Originally posted by heflores
To all aethiests?

Actually, it's "atheists", and you should probably avoid the question mark unless you're asking a question.

Originally posted by heflores
Remeber, "the burden of proof that a creator does not exist is equal to the burden of proof that a creator exist."

No, it is not. We are no more required to disprove the existence of God(s) than we are to disprove the existence of the Daoine Sidhe.

Originally posted by heflores
You may not use the stupid argument that if you don't see the creator then it doesn't exist, because I don't see sound waves and I know they exist.

You are a pathetic little buffoon. Stop making a fool of yourself.

Originally posted by heflores
keep me interested, or I'll be out of here, I'm looking for challenges, not to educate others.

You are obviouly mentally challenged. Your departure would be no loss at all.

Originally posted by heflores
I got kids at home that I can educate all I want.

That is truly sad, and I am sincerely sorry for them.

 

[(Q)]

heflore

I don't see sound waves and I know they exist

That is because sound waves are a physical presence which can be measured and their effects can be observed. Can you say the same for gods ?

You may not use the stupid argument

Like your argument about sound waves for example ?

keep me interested, or I'll be out of here

Bye.

 

[doom]

Originally posted by heflores
To all aethiests?

Remeber, "the burden of proof that a creator does not exist is equal to the burden of proof that a creator exist."

You may not use the stupid argument that if you don't see the creator then it doesn't exist, because I don't see sound waves and I know they exist.

keep me interested, or I'll be out of here, I'm looking for challenges, not to educate others. I got kids at home that I can educate all I want.

OH NO! youre threatning to leave boo fucking hoo,get the box of tissues,im so upset,
perhaps your kids can give you a hand with your spelling and grammer.

 

[(Q)]

heflore

I'm looking for challenges

http://www.jesusanswers.com/games/christian/church.htm

 

[Cris]

hef,

Remeber, "the burden of proof that a creator does not exist is equal to the burden of proof that a creator exist."

If anyone makes the claim that a specific god or gods do not exist, then certainly the onus is on them to justify their claim.

However, most atheists do not make that claim. Most atheists state a disbelief in the existence of a god or gods. A disbelief in a proposition is the not the same as claiming the proposition is false.

You may want to be clear in your mind the difference between the weak and strong atheist positions. It has been discussed here many times and most now understand and recognize the important distinctions.

You may not use the stupid argument that if you don't see the creator then it doesn't exist, because I don't see sound waves and I know they exist.

I hope most here also understand that absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. We’ve been through that many times as well, although there is at least one theist here I think who does not understand this yet.

keep me interested, or I'll be out of here, I'm looking for challenges, not to educate others. I got kids at home that I can educate all I want.

Then perhaps you might start by not assuming that you won’t learn anything yourself.

 

[Zero]

Originally posted by heflores
Oh...now I'm so damn enlightened. Atheists are stupid....they're stupid beyond belief. Atheists are spiritually immature individuals. I used to be one, a real bad one too. I started when I was three and continued through my teen age years. I drove my parents nuts... But after I realized that I was only driving myself nuts, I lucked out and found a better way..

Aethiests think they're so smart, that they literally refuse help in any form or shape.... They rebel on their own rebelious thoughts. You're right aeithism have no crutch to rely on. It's a disease that exist among the youth and may extent to the thirties or fourties, people rarely die with that disease. The only good things about aetheists is that when they finally find their way to god they become the best balanced creatures in the universe. Too few survive the disease though.

And religious individuals who bomb themselves to slaughter people are spiritually balanced? The Catholics and Protestants who slaughter(ed) each other in Ireland are spiritually balanced? The RCC, the majority of whose clergy are virgins, are more spiritually balanced in thinking they can lecture others on how to have sex? The Church that sent hordes of crusaders, sometimes to the downright WRONG location, to slaughter muslims (unsuccessfully, that's the sad part) is more spiritually balanced? Churchgoers that sued a school to stop it from offering yoga classes because they thought it would lead to transcendental meditation are more spiritually balanced? More balanced that atheists? If so, I suggest you go and take a good long look at the world, grow up, and come back sobered and without :m:

Good job in calling atheism a mental disease, we think that religion is a mental virus. There's a thread on it. It's very enlightening; read it.

Do you have any justification for considering your own viewpoint superior to atheism's? Any logical argument at all? Any evidence to back it up?

 

[heflores]

damn,
Look at the great responce, I really put a spin on your sorry
aethiesm??? and who give a shit about grammer and spelling loosers.

Loosers Loosers, you are all loosers..

Rott in hell well, I want every one of you to roast like a turkey....

Too bad, you're all going to dye whether you like it or not and decompose and be eaten by maggots, and your souls are going no where....that's right, you don't believe in god, so he doesn't believe in you either...you're all just a stinking decomposable organic substance, that's all you are.

Bye loosers.

 

[whatsupyall]

LOL, thats funny Hef...Its cruel, but its true (I am a loser in some aspects too).........

If you guys CAREFULLY read every post of Cris, Tiassa, and other atheists here, youll realize that every single words they typed are full of flaws. WHEN TALKING TO AN ATHEIST, YOU CANT BE PASSIVE, BUT BE ATTENTIVE, PAY ATTENTION TO EVERY DETAIL THAT THEY SAY...I assure you I can annihilate every words of Cris, but sadly ignorant kids can fall to it, and they think this Cris guy is smart, WHEN THE TRUTH IS HE IS JUST ANOTHER BRAINWASHED ATHEIST, IN DENIAL OF REALITY.....

 

[whatsupyall]

Originally posted by Zero
And religious individuals who bomb themselves to slaughter people are spiritually balanced? The Catholics and Protestants who slaughter(ed) each other in Ireland are spiritually balanced? The RCC, the majority of whose clergy are virgins, are more spiritually balanced in thinking they can lecture others on how to have sex? The Church that sent hordes of crusaders, sometimes to the downright WRONG location, to slaughter muslims (unsuccessfully, that's the sad part) is more spiritually balanced? Churchgoers that sued a school to stop it from offering yoga classes because they thought it would lead to transcendental meditation are more spiritually balanced? More balanced that atheists? If so, I suggest you go and take a good long look at the world, grow up, and come back sobered and without :m:

Good job in calling atheism a mental disease, we think that religion is a mental virus. There's a thread on it. It's very enlightening; read it.

Do you have any justification for considering your own viewpoint superior to atheism's? Any logical argument at all? Any evidence to back it up?

Yup, the Human race are sinners...I agree, but that doesnt take away the glory of God still...If You killed your cat, dont blaim God for your action ok kids?

 

[Xelios]

Bye loosers

'loosers' is actually spelt 'losers', loser. Why exactly did you come here in the first place? You wanted a debate, we gave you one, you call us losers and leave. How very Christian of you, good luck getting into heaven with that attitude.

 

[Xelios]

If you guys CAREFULLY read every post of Cris, Tiassa, and other atheists here, youll realize that every single words they typed are full of flaws. WHEN TALKING TO AN ATHEIST, YOU CANT BE PASSIVE, BUT BE ATTENTIVE, PAY ATTENTION TO EVERY DETAIL THAT THEY SAY...I assure you I can annihilate every words of Cris, but sadly ignorant kids can fall to it, and they think this Cris guy is smart, WHEN THE TRUTH IS HE IS JUST ANOTHER BRAINWASHED ATHEIST, IN DENIAL OF REALITY.....

... said the raving lunatic to his imaginary friend.

 

[whatsupyall]

Originally posted by Cris
hef,
Most atheists state a disbelief in the existence of a god or gods. A disbelief in a proposition is the not the same as claiming the proposition is false.

Thank you...So by admittance, your telling me that atheists is just like SOME religions and cults, who can prove nothing BUT IS PURE BELIEF...Thank you, you are no better than those cults.. yOU BELIEVE GOD DONT EXIST, BUT CANT PROVE GOD DONT EXIST, therefore a pure belief, like another cult by admittance..........

Originally posted by Cris

You may want to be clear in your mind the difference between the weak and strong atheist positions. It has been discussed here many times and most now understand and recognize the important distinctions.

I hope most here also understand that absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. We’ve been through that many times as well, although there is at least one theist here I think who does not understand this yet.

OK listen Cris....I understand what your trying to say, You expect theists to convince you as much as they can that God exist...Thats fine, BUT NO EVIDENCE SEEMS CREDIBLE TO YOU, IT CAN ONLY BE CREDIBLE IF YOU CAN TOUCH AND SEE GOD, THAT AINT GONNA HAPPEN (POSSIBLY THOUGH)....Thats why peeps in the history cannot be proven either.......
Atheist said "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence"...Well what about incurable cancers being healed when people prayed to God? There are many cases documented on this fact....THEN YOU SAID "OH IT IS NOT GOD, BUT JUST THE MR. BRAIN CHEMICAL X"...SO YOU ASK, BUT IF YOU WERE GIVEN, THEN YOU TWIST IT...I CAN DO THE SAME......I DARE YOU PROVE TO ME KING HENRY EXIST....YOU CANT!!!


IN SUMMARY, BY YOUR ADMITTANCE, ATHEISM IS JUST ANOTHER BELIEF, ANOTHER CULT..AS IN THIS FORUM, CRIS BEING THE CULT BRAINWASHED BRAINWASHER, AND XELIOS, VIENNA, AND OTHERS AS THE FOLLOWERS........WELL HEY NOW, I HOPE AT THE END YOU WONT DRINK CYANIDE LEMON JUICE OK CULTS?

 

[Absurd]

Originally posted by heflores

Rott in hell well, I want every one of you to roast like a turkey....

Originally posted by whatsupyall

AS IN THIS FORUM, CRIS BEING THE CULT BRAINWASHED BRAINWASHER, AND XELIOS, VIENNA, AND OTHERS AS THE FOLLOWERS........WELL HEY NOW, I HOPE AT THE END YOU WONT DRINK CYANIDE LEMON JUICE OK CULTS?

*giggle*

Ah, you people made my day.

 

[Xelios]

Thank you...So by admittance, your telling me that atheists is just like SOME religions and cults, who can prove nothing BUT IS PURE BELIEF...Thank you, you are no better than those cults..

Partly, but it's more just not believing the religions and cults out there when they claim God exists. If I told you a purple flying elephant exists and you say "I don't believe you" does that mean you are making a claim or does it simply mean you don't believe my claim? I'd say the latter, and as such it is not the same as my belief. Religion says "God exists" and atheists say "I don't believe you", how is this any different from my example?

Well what about incurable cancers being healed when people prayed to God?

What about incurable cancers being healed in atheists? If they are also 'cured' doesn't this mean God is not necessarily responsible for healing cancers?

I DARE YOU PROVE TO ME KING HENRY EXIST....YOU CANT!!!

You're right, he doesn't exist, he's dead now.

IN SUMMARY, BY YOUR ADMITTANCE, ATHEISM IS JUST ANOTHER BELIEF, ANOTHER CULT

Nope, atheism is the denial of a claim made by other people. "I don't believe you" not "God doesn't exist".

 

[Jaxom]

Athiest troll or very stupid theist. You make the call. Either way, contributing nothing to a discussion is a great way to begin.

Well what about incurable cancers being healed when people prayed to God? There are many cases documented on this fact....

Name one. Show us. If they are so well documented, then you should have no problem with this. As we've said since day one of your posts...

your telling me that atheists is just like SOME religions and cults, who can prove nothing BUT IS PURE BELIEF

No, A-theism is not a religion itself, it's a disbelief in theism, and a failure of theism to provide convincing arguments. You have the two confused.