Show me the evidence.
- Thread starter snow
- Start date
Oh really, so what's -1 times -1? Did you get --1 in your calualator?
Hmm, you need to study logic as well. A means not. AA is not not. It's not like two wrongs doesn't make a right. It's not wrong is right.
I guess your bubble is bursted.
Know what's strange hef? I'm atheist, and I have more respect for others and treat others more kindly than you do. I'm sure Allah doesn't tell you to treat anyone who doesn't share your views as shit, so you're not even really a Muslim.
whatsup,
I have searched the web extensively and I cannot find any scientific references that show a link between praying to a god and anyone being cured of cancer. Unless you can show evidence for your claim then it looks very much like this claim is a pure figment of your imagination, or simply that you a liar, or suffering from a delusional psychosis.
Your continued inability to provide evidence of your claim seems to be because there isn’t any such evidence and you are desperately trying to escape your responsibility by trying to force others to prove something that everyone accepts is impossible. This is dishonest and a disingenuous tactic on your part. Unless of course you know how to search every corner of the universe to prove that imaginary objects like gods or invisible flying pink elephants do not exist.
But your claim that someone has been cured of cancer by prayer is completely within anyone’s reach if such an event exists. You have made the claim, so show the evidence or stop making false and fraudulent claims.
So where is it? Provide it now otherwise you lack all credibility in anything else you say. Not that anyone here takes you seriously any longer. Or admit that you cannot provide any such evidence because the claim is a fantasy of your own creation.
I have searched the web extensively and I cannot find any scientific references that show a link between praying to a god and anyone being cured of cancer. Unless you can show evidence for your claim then it looks very much like this claim is a pure figment of your imagination, or simply that you a liar, or suffering from a delusional psychosis.
Your continued inability to provide evidence of your claim seems to be because there isn’t any such evidence and you are desperately trying to escape your responsibility by trying to force others to prove something that everyone accepts is impossible. This is dishonest and a disingenuous tactic on your part. Unless of course you know how to search every corner of the universe to prove that imaginary objects like gods or invisible flying pink elephants do not exist.
But your claim that someone has been cured of cancer by prayer is completely within anyone’s reach if such an event exists. You have made the claim, so show the evidence or stop making false and fraudulent claims.
You appear to have mistaken someone else for me. Show me where I said this.
heflores,
Moderator comment –
We have a guideline here that it is quite acceptable and expected to attack an argument but it is not acceptable to attack the person, i.e. ad hominem.
Such tactics only result in useless flame wars and seriously detract from any useful debate.
You were unaware of this but please take care with future posts.
Moderator comment –
We have a guideline here that it is quite acceptable and expected to attack an argument but it is not acceptable to attack the person, i.e. ad hominem.
Such tactics only result in useless flame wars and seriously detract from any useful debate.
You were unaware of this but please take care with future posts.
THE FACT HERE IS THAT INCURABLE CANCERS HAVE BEEN HEALED MANY TIMES, THIS HAVE BEEN DOCUMENTED...MAJORITY OF THE ONES HEALED ARE CHRISTIANS (LADY OF LOURDES IN FRANCE WHERE THOUSANDS UPON THOUSANDS CAME FORWARD WITH THEIR SICKNESS BEING HEALED, WITH PHOTOS TAKEN BEFORE AND AFTER...) ATHEISTS DONT GIVE CREDIT TO GOD WHO GAVE THEM THE FAITH, INSTEAD ATHEISTS GAVE CREDIT TO THE MR. BRAIN CHEMICAL X, HAVE YOU HEARD OF PLACEBO? MIND OVER MATTER....
I DONT NEED TO FIND REFERENCE TO THIS FACT, THIS IS OBVIOUS IF YOU LIVE IN PLANET EARTH, IF YOU DONT BELIEVE THIS BECAUSE YOU ARE IN DENIAL OF REALITY AND IS DELUSIONAL, THEN THATS NOT MY FAULT CRIS......
AND YES, LIKE I WAS SAYING I WILL GIVE YOU THE REFERENCE AND ALL IF YOU ALSO GIVE ME THE REFERENCE CONCERNING YOUR WORDS THAT THERE IS NO NEED OF A GOD IN ORDER FOR LIFE TO EXIST....YOU HAVE MENTIONED THIS MANY TIMES, I CAN LOOK FOR IT, BUT YOU PROBABLY DELETED SUCH COMMENTS BY NOW......MANY HERE KNEW YOU SAID THAT FOR A FACT....
AND BY THE WAY, YOU MADE A COMMENT ON THIS, BUT NOT THE REST OF MY POSTS, WHY? DO I SMELL DEFEAT IN YOUR PART?
LOL, ITS OK CRIS, AT SOME POINT IN LIFE YOU HAVE TO BE HUMBLED, OR BE PRIDEFULL AND CONTINUE WITH YOUR BRAINWASHED WAYS AND GO TO HELL...YOUR CHOICE......Moderator comment - whatsupyall, please stop using all caps. We have politely asked you several times now. The tactic is very irritating. We will seriously consider deleting such posts if you persist.
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heflores,
But such an idea is not falsifiable since there isn't enough empirical evidence available to prove a god theory wrong; each piece of empirical evidence brought against a god could be countered by a further imaginative adaptation. And we have seen this over the past few millennia. The religions of Islam and Christianity adapt and change depending on cultural changes or scientific discoveries. Both religions have numerous cults and opposing doctrines that come and go over time, with each having different interpretations for the properties of its deity. For example in Christianity there was originally only one god but when that presented issues the Church invented the concept of the 3 in 1 trinity.
You appear to be somewhat confused about the meaning of atheism. Before you make a fool of yourself, although some here might conclude that that is a bit late, I strongly recommend some quick study for you. Please try this web site and read the definitions. This is an introduction to atheism - http://www.infidels.org/news/atheism/intro.html
No, that is not correct. The claim for the existence of god is not a scientific theory but only speculative human imagination. To be a valid theory it must be both falsifiable and confirmable. At this time no one can confirm that a god exists. The question of being falsifiable then is simply a mute point.
But such an idea is not falsifiable since there isn't enough empirical evidence available to prove a god theory wrong; each piece of empirical evidence brought against a god could be countered by a further imaginative adaptation. And we have seen this over the past few millennia. The religions of Islam and Christianity adapt and change depending on cultural changes or scientific discoveries. Both religions have numerous cults and opposing doctrines that come and go over time, with each having different interpretations for the properties of its deity. For example in Christianity there was originally only one god but when that presented issues the Church invented the concept of the 3 in 1 trinity.
No, that is a non sequitur. If the laws of physics have always existed and which give rise to an ordered universe then a god is not necessary. For your logic to be valid you must show that the laws of physics have not always existed, or that order is not the result of some other cause and that a god is the only possibility, that clearly has not been achieved.
Yes but you cannot show that the order is caused by a deity and not by the laws of nature. Proving that order exists doesn’t prove that a god exists.
But this too easy. I simply rename your definition of god to be the laws of physics and hence no such thing named god need exist. Given this explanation for the universe then an atheist can simply disbelieve your claim in view of a simpler and more credible alternative.
You appear to be somewhat confused about the meaning of atheism. Before you make a fool of yourself, although some here might conclude that that is a bit late, I strongly recommend some quick study for you. Please try this web site and read the definitions. This is an introduction to atheism - http://www.infidels.org/news/atheism/intro.html
whatsup,
It is not that I particularly disagree with the statement and if I said it then I am sure I had a justification for it, but it is not something I would have said.
Provide scientific evidence and references please. Testimonial evidence by religionists is neither independent, unbiased, objective, or scientific. Although you have not provided those either.
Be very careful with your accusations on matters like this. While you might feel free to make idle accusations about philosophical issues you are not free to accuse me of dishonesty where moderation of this forum and my conduct as a member is concerned, unless you have real evidence. I do not go around deleting or editing my past posts because of some immature and childish idea that I was once wrong. You are committing libel. Please retract your statement and apologize immediately.
It is not that I particularly disagree with the statement and if I said it then I am sure I had a justification for it, but it is not something I would have said.
Dream on kiddo. What other posts? But I’m not obliged to review and respond to every post surely. I do have a fulltime job as well. I’ll pick and choose on the basis of maximum effect and productivity.
i donno why everyone is still arguin with whatsup and heflores.. both of em haven't provided any evidence and they have been asked repeatedly to back up their statements.... i haven't posted much in this thread, but i've been followin it to see if any evidence was gonna be posted... no success so far... and whatsup hasn't even replied to my questions.... shudn't waste our time with ppl who can just offer opinions...
Cris,
The universe does not exist because of physics - physics is the fabric out of which the universe consists. Even if you don't believe in God, you must be able to see that the "laws" of physics which we so diligently discover one after the other, are only constructs we use to describe what we observe. Because you cannot see God under a microscopic (or macroscopic) lense does not mean He doesn't exist. It just means you don't accept the premises under which He exists.
The "many proofs" whatsup likes to mention so much are all perfectly valid if you accept that God is not limited to a natural-scientific existence. Even the Bible spends no effort at all to validate God's existence. Simple acceptance has no scientific basis, I agree. But that only makes it scientifically invalid. To you, science is everything - and you base this "belief" on the premises of science. Science hopes on the future, on "what might be possible", while religion bases it's hope on the past - on what has happened.
The universe does not exist because of physics - physics is the fabric out of which the universe consists. Even if you don't believe in God, you must be able to see that the "laws" of physics which we so diligently discover one after the other, are only constructs we use to describe what we observe. Because you cannot see God under a microscopic (or macroscopic) lense does not mean He doesn't exist. It just means you don't accept the premises under which He exists.
The "many proofs" whatsup likes to mention so much are all perfectly valid if you accept that God is not limited to a natural-scientific existence. Even the Bible spends no effort at all to validate God's existence. Simple acceptance has no scientific basis, I agree. But that only makes it scientifically invalid. To you, science is everything - and you base this "belief" on the premises of science. Science hopes on the future, on "what might be possible", while religion bases it's hope on the past - on what has happened.
ConsequentAtheist
Registered Senior Member
True. They are testable, falsifiable, and successful constructs.
True, and equally true of pixie dust and unicorn farts.
False. It means I don't accept sans evidence the premises under which you and others assert He exists.
There exists absolutely no protocol by which you can map the concept of 'proof' to the supernatural. Once you accept the supernatural, you forfiet all selection crieria other than personal bias. The God of the Bible is no more or less 'proven' or 'provable' than are the Gods of Hinduism or the fantasies of the Daoine Sidhe.
False. Religion bases its hope on superstitious fantasies and myth.
There is no evidence for a Biblical Creation.
There is no evidence for a Biblical Flood.
There is no evidence for a Biblical Exodus.
There is no evidence for a Biblical Virgin Birth.
There is no evidence for a Biblical Resurrection.
So, what, precisely, do you think "has happened" and why?
Originally posted by Vienna
what on Earth is holly water?
Holly water is this liquid that your pastor sprayed on you when you were a baby. Nobody knows what's in it, I personally have all kindda of ideas, but I don't think you're mentally capable to discuss. In a nutshell, it's real scary stuff. I believe all your emotional scars and the reason you have became an Atheist was because of you encounter with that unknown liquid.
Don't go denying it now, call mom and dad tonight and ask them if they dressed you all in white and took you to a strange long bearded priest to point to you with a stick in all directions and spray water on you. Same go for all the Atheist, for I don't believe they were born Atheists.
I authorize you to disconnect my account, for I'm done. I'm not being sensitive, I'm being so damn cruel, so don't worry about the feelings.
Chris, if I could subtely detect a hair of hope that this discussion is a usefull debate, you would have found me your perfect teacher pet in the front of the class with my hands pointing up, pick me pick me. i can read subtelties just as I think you can. This discussion is not about providing evidance, it's about causing damage, so I'll quit while you haven't caused me any damage, and I have stirred a couple of annoying thoughts in everyone's brain.
From the holly Quran, God told us about Athiests thousands of years ago in perfect versus. Make sure your fire is real Chris and your hold is firm. If you insist to hang on to mirage, it'll disappear right from your eyes. Bye now.
By the way, someone complimented me talking about "mental disease analysis". It's not mine, I'm not that smart, I took it from the first verses of Quran below:
This Book, there is no doubt in it, is a guide to those who guard (against evil).
[2.3] Those who believe in the unseen and keep up prayer and spend out of what We have given them.
[2.4] And who believe in that which has been revealed to you and that which was revealed before you and they are sure of the hereafter.
[2.5] These are on a right course from their Lord and these it is that shall be successful.
[2.6] Surely those who disbelieve, it being alike to them whether you warn them, or do not warn them, will not believe.
[2.7] Allah has set a seal upon their hearts and upon their hearing and there is a covering over their eyes, and there is a great punishment for them.
[2.8] And there are some people who say: We believe in Allah and the last day; and they are not at all believers.
[2.9] They desire to deceive Allah and those who believe, and they deceive only themselves and they do not perceive.
[2.10] There is a disease in their hearts, so Allah added to their disease and they shall have a painful chastisement because they lied.
[2.11] And when it is said to them, Do not make mischief in the land, they say: We are but peace-makers.
[2.12] Now surely they themselves are the mischief makers, but they do not perceive.
[2.13] And when it is said to them: Believe as the people believe they say: Shall we believe as the fools believe? Now surely they themselves are the fools, but they do not know.
[2.14] And when they meet those who believe, they say: We believe; and when they are alone with their Shaitans, they say: Surely we are with you, we were only mocking.
[2.15] Allah shall pay them back their mockery, and He leaves them alone in their inordinacy, blindly wandering on.
[2.16] These are they who buy error for the right direction, so their bargain shall bring no gain, nor are they the followers of the right direction.
[2.17] Their parable is like the parable of one who kindled a fire but when it had illumined all around him, Allah took away their light, and left them in utter darkness-- they do not see.
[2.18] Deaf, dumb (and) blind, so they will not turn back.
[2.19] Or like abundant rain from the cloud in which is utter darkness and thunder and lightning; they put their fingers into their ears because of the thunder peal, for fear of death, and Allah encompasses the unbelievers.
[2.20] The lightning almost takes away their sight; whenever it shines on them they walk in it, and when it becomes dark to them they stand still; and if Allah had pleased He would certainly have taken away their hearing and their sight; surely Allah has power over all things.
Heflores: There is no such thing as holy water. It's a Roman Catholic invention as far as I know. The first Christians, including Jesus, were baptised in the Jordan river. "Holy" means "dedicated to God". The water is merely a symbol of God's acceptance and the presence of the Spirit in us. H20 has no characteristics that does anything, but God has.
ReasonableDoubt
What you don't accept is the history.
There are scientists who believe in the Bible, and there are archeologists who are convinced. If what you say were absolutely true, this would not have been possible.
Some links:
Scientific Evidence for the Existence of God
Evidence of Exodus
I don't doubt that you don't believe. I just doubt the reasons for which you don't believe.
ReasonableDoubt
What you don't accept is the history.
There are scientists who believe in the Bible, and there are archeologists who are convinced. If what you say were absolutely true, this would not have been possible.
Some links:
Scientific Evidence for the Existence of God
Evidence of Exodus
I don't doubt that you don't believe. I just doubt the reasons for which you don't believe.