Show me the evidence.

[spacemanspiff]

"I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours"

My question is, do the Christians(whatsupyall) who discount all other religions and gods have a better reason than the atheist who discount all gods?

and if some sort of god talked to you, which one was it? Don't assume it was the christian god, there are plenty other gods out there.

could have been zeus....

 

[Vienna]

Dear Whatsupyall,

You ignominious, drooling fool. Where do you get off being so self-righteous? Who appointed you Tetrarch of Truth?

Your research is atrocious and your logic is pathetic.

You have the mental agility of a glacier. You can’t think at all. You are a pitiful, mentally backward Neanderthal who suffers from a severe vitamin deficiency that has obviously retarded your intellectual development.

You are an arrogant person with nothing better to do than defame other people's sincere beliefs in Atheism.

You should be ashamed of yourself you pathetic lump of sorrowful, human debris.

I pity you and fart in your general direction.

ROFLMAO.

 

[whatsupyall]

Originally posted by spacemanspiff

My question is, do the Christians(whatsupyall) who discount all other religions and gods have a better reason than the atheist who discount all gods?

and if some sort of god talked to you, which one was it? Don't assume it was the christian god, there are plenty other gods out there.

could have been zeus....

There is only one God, and many translations....I have an example to make....

Yesterday I went to Maria's Taco shop with my friend (former atheist, now a believer)...We were eating and somehow the convo was about atheism...
He told me that when he was about 12 yrs old, (his younger sister was 7)...His family always go to church every sunday...And one sunday, his younger sister said to the priest "Hello there God.." And she was serious, my friend and other people who heard it was laughing.....I thought this was funny, and the priest made a sermon about it.....

I believe that from the beggining of time, God have been trying to communicate with the human race for thousands of years, though as time goes by, we mature..."The kingdom of God can be likened by a mustard seed, it starts out very small but when it grows, it is so huge that birds of the air dwell at its nest..."- Jesus Christ....

That 2 nights when I heard God spoke to me, it is not for me to prove which God it was "christian God or Zeus, or Alla..." Anyone is entitled to call God according to their understanding, or language..

However I believe it was Jesus who spoke to me..Though the first one I havent seen Him because I was sitting down on the dark, but the 2nd time I was praying with the picture of Jesus' face (The picture didnt move or anything...).

I believe that many religions have a lot of misconceptions about what the Creator wants of us....The bible said concerning Jesus "I COME TO TELL THE WORLD THAT THEY ARE WRONG ABOUT GOD'S THOUGHTS AND JUDGMENT"....Jesus showed who God really is......

Prophets have been communicating to God in the old times, but many believed he is a God of wrath, no mercy, loves destruction....some have not fully understood Him, thats why it was necessary for Jesus to arrive to show the human race that God isnt the evil and vengfull as they thought of Him....
God is JUSTICE...You sow what you reap, for the same measure you give it shall be measured back unto you....
God is so good that here I am talking about Him, when I am not worthy, day by day I sinned (not that I wanted to) and I am trying to do good BUT GOD KNOWS YOUR HEART, HE KOWS WHEN YOUR FAKING IT...SOME PEOPLE WOULD SAY "IT DOESNT MATTER IF YOU SIN, GOD FORGIVES YOU ANYWAY, HE DIED FOR YOU ALREADY..." YOU CANNOT FOOL GOD, HE KNOWS YOUR HEARTS HE KNOWS WHEN YOU ARE REALLY TRYING TO BE GOOD OR NOT.......

WE ARE NOT CALLED TO BE SUCCESFULL, BUT WE ARE CALLED TO BE FAITHFULL....COME TO GOD JUST THE WAY YOU ARE...YOU MAYBE A PERVERT, HARDCORE CUSSER, GOSSIPER, HATER, GAY, WHATEVER YOUR CIRCUMSTANCES, COME JUST THE WAY YOU ARE....HE DIED FOR YOUR SINS, BE REALLY SORRY AS YOU MEAN IT, TRY TO SIN N0 MORE, PROGRESS YOUR LIFE INTO DOING GOOD (THIS MAY TAKE TIME) BUT BE FAITHFULL.......I ASSURE YOU, YOU WILL NOT REGRET IT...THE WORLD IS CRUEL, BUT THE WORLD IS ORDER AS WELL, YOU MAY THINK THERE IS NO JUSTICE AND THAT THE WORLD IS NOT FAIR, TRUST ME, LIFE IN GENERAL IS FAIR, WHEN YOU HAVE CHRIST IN YOOUR LIFE, LIFE IN ALL ITS CONTEXT IS COMPLETE..........

 

[wesmorris]

Originally posted by Vienna
Dear Whatsupyall,

You ignominious, drooling fool. Where do you get off being so self-righteous? Who appointed you Tetrarch of Truth?

Your research is atrocious and your logic is pathetic.

You have the mental agility of a glacier. You can’t think at all. You are a pitiful, mentally backward Neanderthal who suffers from a severe vitamin deficiency that has obviously retarded your intellectual development.

You are an arrogant person with nothing better to do than defame other people's sincere beliefs in Atheism.

You should be ashamed of yourself you pathetic lump of sorrowful, human debris.

I pity you and fart in your general direction.

ROFLMAO.

*applauds that quality rant*

 

[Jaxom]

So every god is the same god, just a different interpretation. You'd think he'd be able to get some consistancy with the message, or maybe he just has trouble finding someone literate enough to get it right.

Why is this easier to believe for you than to think that gods are human creations to try and explain the unknown?

 

[daktaklakpak]

Originally posted by whatsupyall
Universities?? ALL I CAN SAY IS 99% OF THE UNIVERSITIES ARE FOUNDED BY CHRISTIANS

Would you care to show me the source of this survey? Care to give some names, too? If you love evidence, then stop giving out empty claim.

 

[James R]

Apart from the fact that it isn't true, it doesn't matter who founded 99% of universities. Even if they were all devout Christians, that adds nothing to the debate as to whether God exists. Argument from authority is irrelevant.

 

[Cris]

whatsup,

I have offered tons of evidence,

Well clearly we must have all missed it. Since this thread is about showing evidence then would you mind very much showing and describing your evidence again please? I’m sure that since it is of such great importance there would be little harm in repeating it again here.

THERE IS NO CREDIBLE EVIDENCE FOR SHAKESPEARE, KING HENRY,

I’ll repeat something I stated earlier that perhaps you didn’t understand.

Documentation is certainly accepted as proof in many instances mainly because it is often widespread and written by multiple independent eyewitness authors. When such multiple independent sources are compared and when they tell the same story then logic by induction allows us to reach a significant degree of confidence that we have a truth.

However, just because something is put in writing doesn’t necessarily mean it is true. One has to judge the nature of the topic, its credibility and the environment and culture in which the writings originated. For example several hundred years ago when the flat earth was a common belief many such writings attested to that as if it was fact. The issue here is that it wasn’t an observation but just a belief and such writings should always be considered highly suspect.

But take a major figure from history, Gaius Julius Caesar 100 – 44 BCE for example. Someone we know existed and from just over 2000 years ago. The documentation about this man is extraordinary and from many multiple independent eyewitness sources. With such overwhelming documentation, its nature and sources gives us no reason to doubt his actual existence.

The evidence for King Henry and Shakespeare also fall under this category of large quantities of well-documented eyewitness accounts. The claimed evidence for God does not meet anything like these same standards, unless of course you can show otherwise. This is your chance.

you claimed earlier that "science points out that there is no need of god in order for life to exist..."

As far as I can recall and find I have made no such statement, can you point me at the claimed post please?

Yes we made an extraordinary claim that God exist, thus it need extraordinary evidence (Martyrs, gov't's laws, healing of incurable cancers, testimonial, historical facts, etc.)...

Now I don’t mind which one you choose, but please show the documented and verified evidence for just one of these claims.

but since you reject all of the given evidence so far, now its atheists turn.....

Well no I haven’t rejected your claims yet since you haven’t presented any. You continually claim there is evidence but to date you haven’t presented any evidence that we can reject.

atheists made an extraordinary claim to say "life can exist without god",

This looks like a distortion of the theory of abiogenesis. That is a valid scientific theory. But we are not discussing abiogenesis and the creation of life here but evidence for the existence of a god.

nobody is asking you to prove a negative, how is that possible?...you cannot prove a negative.....

We know that so why ask us to prove that something does not exist? If I ask you to prove that invisible flying green elephants do not exist, can you do that?

to prove god dont exist.....you must prove life can exist without the need of god...

You’ve just said that it is impossible to prove a negative.

Can you show any piece of verifiable and credible evidence for the existence of your god? If there is tons of such evidence then it should not be difficult to repeat it here, just one item will be fine.

 

[Raithere]

Evidence refuted

Originally posted by whatsupyall
Yes we made an extraordinary claim that God exist, thus it need extraordinary evidence (Martyrs, gov't's laws, healing of incurable cancers, testimonial, historical facts, etc.)

Martyrs: A martyr is someone who suffers or dies for something they believe in. Yet people have done this throughout history, some for noble causes, some for outright lies. You, I assume, have heard of Jonestown? 900 people committed suicide by drinking cyanide laced kool-aid upon the orders of Jim Jones because they believed he was the reincarnation of Christ. This is only a single incident, there are many, many more. Obviously, that a belief has it's martyrs is not indicative of truth.

Government Laws: While some laws do indeed reflect the laws given in the Bible there are many more Laws that have nothing to do with the Bible. There are also governments that have laws in direct opposition to laws in the Bible.

Healing (of cancer): Faith healing is practiced in many parts of the world. Most faith healing is simply a deception. There are many recorded cases where a person attended a faith healer and was proclaimed to be healed only to have the disease worsen shortly thereafter... I even recall reading about one where the "healed" person dropped dead on the way out of the building.

Of course there are many cases where people who have prayed and been prayed for have been healed and there has been a link demonstrated between faith and prayer and people recovering from illness. The problem is that people who do not pray or have faith in God but have faith in a placebo have the exact same occurrence of remission as those who believe in God. So how do you explain that faith in what is actually a sugar-pill is as successful as God at healing people? Is a sugar pill omnipotent?

Of course, the whole matter of faith or prayer healing brings up an important question. If God does indeed heal some of the people who pray why does he let so many more people suffer and die? He sounds like a very fickle God to me.

Testimonial: Please. Show me a belief and I can find you someone to give a testimonial that the belief is true. People believe all sorts of whacked out idiotic bullshit, this does not mean it's all true, does it? Or do you only believe the testimonials that concur with what you already believe... and isn't that rather selective?

Historical facts: The Bible does contain some historical facts but then, so do "Gone with the Wind" and "Young Guns". It's known as "Historical Fiction" and it is ubiquitous throughout the Historical record. It is even more prevalent in the arena of verbal history. For instance: Did you know that Marie Antoinette never actually said "Let them eat cake." and George Washington never chopped down a cherry tree only to confess it to his father with "I cannot tell a lie." These are fables which commonly grow around historical figures. Not to mention those fables that grow up around historical events. Heck, we even have one brewing in New York right now. The statue of the firefighters putting the flag up will depict men of various "races" while, in reality, all three were white. One can easily imagine that people 20 or 100 years in the future will believe it depicts the event accurately. (Please, no one take this to mean I am racist... I am simply pointing out that it is not historically accurate.)

etc.: Thus far you have not convinced me. You'll have to bring out the etceteras.

~Raithere

P.S. One should also note that the placebo effect, whether in prayer or pill form is very small and well within the margin of error of the studies.

**edited for P.S.**

 

[whatsupyall]

Re: Evidence refuted

Originally posted by Raithere
Martyrs: A martyr is someone who suffers or dies for something they believe in. Yet people have done this throughout history, some for noble causes, some for outright lies. You, I assume, have heard of Jonestown? 900 people committed suicide by drinking cyanide laced kool-aid upon the orders of Jim Jones because they believed he was the reincarnation of Christ. This is only a single incident, there are many, many more. Obviously, that a belief has it's martyrs is not indicative of truth.

I agree...People die for what they believe in.If a person died for his family, because he love his family and there is a reason..
If a person died for his country, because he see fit that his countri'es governing laws are fitting and justified (this are his views)...
If a pperson died in the name of God, because he sees it fit that God needs to be introduced into the world and it is worth dying for....
Donot use the Taliban guys who blew themselves off as an example of martyrs...They died because they are in desperation and have no options in life..Their families were offered money and were told that if they killed themselves, they will go to heaven...AND THE FACT IS NONE OF THIS GUYS ARE EDUCATED....
That is not the case for Christian martyrs who have alot of options in life but chose to be simple, and even somee died for the cause....

Originally posted by Raithere
[
Government Laws: While some laws do indeed reflect the laws given in the Bible there are many more Laws that have nothing to do with the Bible. There are also governments that have laws in direct opposition to laws in the Bible..

The most effective form of governing is in United states a nation under God...We are democracy, giving people freewill, as Jesus did...Biblicall based principle, THE UNITED STATES IS THE MOST SUCCESFULL NATION IN THE WORLD.DENY IT ALL YOU WANT, YOU ARE ENTITLED TO YOUR DELUSIONAL WAY OF THINKING..........FOREFATHERS ARE ALL BEELIEVERS OF GOD, MAYBE NOT IN THE SAME RELIGION, DEIST, ETC...BUT NOT ATHEIST...PERIOD...AGAIN DENY IT ALL YOU WANT.......

Originally posted by Raithere
[
Healing (of cancer): Faith healing is practiced in many parts of the world. Most faith healing is simply a deception. There are many recorded cases where a person attended a faith healer and was proclaimed to be healed only to have the disease worsen shortly thereafter... I even recall reading about one where the "healed" person dropped dead on the way out of the building.

Of course there are many cases where people who have prayed and been prayed for have been healed and there has been a link demonstrated between faith and prayer and people recovering from illness. The problem is that people who do not pray or have faith in God but have faith in a placebo have the exact same occurrence of remission as those who believe in God. So how do you explain that faith in what is actually a sugar-pill is as successful as God at healing people? Is a sugar pill omnipotent?

Of course, the whole matter of faith or prayer healing brings up an important question. If God does indeed heal some of the people who pray why does he let so many more people suffer and die? He sounds like a very fickle God to me.

YOU BASED YOUR OBSERVATION ON THOSE THAT HAVE FAILED, THATS FINE BECAUSE THERE ARE FAKE PREACHERS OUT THERE...IT NEEDS WISDOM IN ORDER TO BE ABLE TO RECOGNIZE THEM.....
JESUS SAID "YOUR FAITH, have healed you"....It is your faith that can heal you....ONCE AGAIN GOD CANNOT INTERFERE WITH HUMAN DECISIONS IN LIFE, YOU ARE DESIGNED TO BE FREE AND INDEPENDENT, GOD CANNOT TAKE THAT AWAY FROM YOU....IT IS YOU WHO DOES THINGS ON YOUR OWN.IF ONE HAVE NOT HEALED THEMSELVES, THAT IS BECAUSE SUCH INDIVIDUAL DOESNT HAVE ENOUGH FAITH...
GOD GAVE US ALL THE NECESSARY SOURCE TO BE INDEPENDENT FROM THE BEGGINING ALREADY, THE WORLD AND NATURE IS ORDER, THERE IS NOTHING WE LACK THAT GOD HAVENT PROVIDED ALREADY..
"IF YOU HAVE FAITH AS SMALL AS A MUSTARD SEED, YOU CAN TELL THE MOUNTAIN TO MOVE FROM HERE TO THERE AND IT WIL MOVE..."- JESUS.....
THIS ALSO ANSWERS WHY GOD HAVE COMPLETELY REVEALED HIMSELF TO THE JEWS....BECAUSE THEY NEEDED HIM THE MOST...THEY WERE SLAVES FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS, FROM EGYPTIAN, TO THE ROMANS...AND WAS VULNERABLE TO ATTACKS BY THE PHILISTINES AND OTHER COUNTRIES CLOSE TO THEM....


BLESSED ARE THE MEEK, BLESSED ARE HUMBLE AT HEART...THOSE WHO ARE SIMPLE AT HEART ARE THE ONES GOD REVEALED HIMSELF TO.....

JEWS AT THE TIME MISUNDERSTOOD AND THOUGHT GOD IS ONLY FOR THEM...THATS WHY JESUS CAME TO CLARIFY THAT THEY ARE WRONG....GOD LOVES ALL REGARDLESS OF RACE, NATIONALITY, BELIEF....JESUS TOLD THE APOSTLES TO PREACH THE GOSPEL THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE WORLD..........

Originally posted by Raithere
[
Testimonial: Please. Show me a belief and I can find you someone to give a testimonial that the belief is true. People believe all sorts of whacked out idiotic bullshit, this does not mean it's all true, does it? Or do you only believe the testimonials that concur with what you already believe... and isn't that rather selective?.

there are true testimonies, and false testimonies...Usually a person wouuld lie so they can get away with things, feel secure, and get away with their faults....I SERIOUSLY DONT THINK THAT A LIAR WOULD LIE WITHOUT PLEASURABLE GAIN (SAYING GOD EXIST) AND CONTINOUSLY LIE UNTIL WAS FED BY THE LIONS OR TORTURED TO DEATH (THE APOSTLES). HISTORICALLY THEY EXIST FOR A FACT, WHILE YOU BELIEVING THEY ARE ACTORS, I BELIEVE THEY ARE GENUINE......

AND I SERIOUSLY DONT THINK THAT THOUSANDS WOULD DO THE SAME, JUST LIE THEIR WAY UNTIL TORTURED TO DEATH....((MARTYRS))....

YOU MAKE AN ANALOGY ABOUT THE 2000 WHO DRANK THE CYANIDE BECAUSE OF THAT CULT...YOU GOT THIS ALL WRONG KID....YOU DONT KNOW THE WHOLE STORY, (OR KNEW BUT JUST DONT WANT TO TELLL THE TRUTH..)..
THEY WERE SURRROUNDED WITH GUNS, ABOUT 4 PEOPLE ESCAPED, THE REST WERE AT GUN POINT INTO DRINKING THE JUICE, SO DONT TAKE THE MAIN REASON OUT OK?...THE LEADER STATING "WITHOUT ME YOU ARE ALL NOTHING"....HE WAS A CRIMINAL, HE ALSO KILLED HIMSELF.....

THE BIBLE HAVE PREDICTED THIS THAT BEFORE THE END OF TIMES, THERE WILL COME FALSE PREACHERS THAT WILL DECIEVE MANY. ATHEISM IS ONE OF THEM, ACTING AS IF IT IS THE TRUTH, BLAIMING RELIGION FOR DIVISION, WHEN WE SHOULD BLAIM THE SPIRIT OF HATE, AND BEGIN LOVING ONE ANOTHER, ONLY THIS WAY CAN WE FIND PEACE...BUT THE DEVIL IS TRYING TO TWIST THE TRUTH..............

Originally posted by Raithere
[
Historical facts: The Bible does contain some historical facts but then, so do "Gone with the Wind" and "Young Guns". It's known as "Historical Fiction" and it is ubiquitous throughout the Historical record. It is even more prevalent in the arena of verbal history. For instance: Did you know that Marie Antoinette never actually said "Let them eat cake." and George Washington never chopped down a cherry tree only to confess it to his father with "I cannot tell a lie." These are fables which commonly grow around historical figures. Not to mention those fables that grow up around historical events. Heck, we even have one brewing in New York right now. The statue of the firefighters putting the flag up will depict men of various "races" while, in reality, all three were white. One can easily imagine that people 20 or 100 years in the future will believe it depicts the event accurately. (Please, no one take this to mean I am racist... I am simply pointing out that it is not historically accurate.)

etc.: Thus far you have not convinced me. You'll have to bring out the etceteras.

~Raithere

P.S. One should also note that the placebo effect, whether in prayer or pill form is very small and well within the margin of error of the studies.

**edited for P.S.**

EVERYONE IS ENTITLED TO FIND FLAWS AND DENY HISTORICAAL FACTS....

 

[Xelios]

Donot use the Taliban guys who blew themselves off as an example of martyrs...They died because they are in desperation and have no options in life..

Not entirely true, many of them died because they were told it Allah wanted them to sacrafice themselves. Would this not be martyrdom? Dying for something they believed in? So I guess this means Allah really did order them to be suicide bombers...

That is not the case for Christian martyrs who have alot of options in life but chose to be simple, and even somee died for the cause....

Could you post a list of these martyrs here so we are all on the same page please? Thanks.

The most effective form of governing is in United states a nation under God

What makes you say that? Canada has an even more democratic system of government than the United States. Sweden has the best social programs and some of the lowest crime rates in the world. Neither of these are 'under God'. And who are you to say the US's system of government is the most effective in the world? Effective in what? Military? Social programs? Democracy?

THE UNITED STATES IS THE MOST SUCCESFULL NATION IN THE WORLD

What do you mean 'successful'? Canada offers free health care to its citizens, and also boasts a lower crime rate than the US. Doesn't this indicate it's more successful than the US in those areas? Or are you basing your opinion only on the amount of money the US makes every year? And for a nation founded 'under God', the US sure spends a lot of money on military, I thought God doesn't agree with militaries, wars and murder?

BUT NOT ATHEIST...PERIOD...AGAIN DENY IT ALL YOU WANT.......

So you are saying none of the people who founded the US were atheist? Do you have proof of this? If you do, I'd like to see it, otherwise I'll take it as another one of your opinions.

I SERIOUSLY DONT THINK THAT A LIAR WOULD LIE WITHOUT PLEASURABLE GAIN (SAYING GOD EXIST) AND CONTINOUSLY LIE UNTIL WAS FED BY THE LIONS OR TORTURED TO DEATH (THE APOSTLES).

A person would, if he or she truely believed in something. Take the 900 suicides Raithere mentioned, they truely believed this guy was the new Jesus Christ, so they killed themselves for him. How do you explain this? How do you explain those that commit ritual suicide believing in vampires?

AND I SERIOUSLY DONT THINK THAT THOUSANDS WOULD DO THE SAME, JUST LIE THEIR WAY UNTIL TORTURED TO DEATH....((MARTYRS))....

Really? Thousands of Christians have been tortured to death? Where are you getting these numbers? People don't lie about their beliefs, if they truely believe something then thats the way it is. They truely believe in it. They don't 'lie their way', they truely believe in what they believe in.

YOU MAKE AN ANALOGY ABOUT THE 2000 WHO DRANK THE CYANIDE BECAUSE OF THAT CULT...YOU GOT THIS ALL WRONG KID....YOU DONT KNOW THE WHOLE STORY, (OR KNEW BUT JUST DONT WANT TO TELLL THE TRUTH..)..

""A mass meeting would ensue... we would be told that the jungle was swarming with mercenaries... we were given a small glass of red liquid to drink. We were told that the liquid contained poison and that we would die within 45 minutes. We all did as we were told."(Galanter, 1989)"

"Telling his subjects that it was a "revolutionary death," he had a large quantity of fruit punch laced with cyanide prepared. After making all 276 children at Jonestown drink the punch, all the adults proceeded. In the end, after Jones apparently killed himself with a gunshot to the head, 914 people had died. "

This was taken from a reputable source, http://www.owlnet.rice.edu/~reli291/Jonestown/Jonestown.html
It's a university, remember, founded by Christians right? So the info there must be right, eh whatsup?

 

[James R]

whatsupyall:

You know, I've thought about responding to you in detail a few times. I start reading your posts and there seems to be some content there. But when I hit the ALL CAPS stuff, I just find it too much bother to read any futher, so I just skim. Generally, I assume that anything in ALL CAPS is an unreasoned rant and I can safely skip it.

There is a good reason that we have capitals and lower case in English. It has been shown that ALL CAPS is actually harder to read and take in than lower case text. So, if you really want people to look at what you say, ALL CAPS is not the way to go.

Xelios has already said he won't read anything in ALL CAPS. I'm telling you I will skim over ALL CAPS text, and I suspect many other people here will do the same as me. The bottom line is: if you really want what you write to be read, quit with the capslock and make your point with text which is easy to read.

 

[Cris]

For those posts that I choose to respond I copy them to an editor and reformat the text to lower case. It would be simpler and more conveninet not to have to do this.

Please whatsup, don't use CAPS any further.

 

[doom]

Originally posted by whatsupyall
There is only one God, and many translations....I have an example to make....

Yesterday I went to Maria's Taco shop with my friend (former atheist, now a believer)...We were eating and somehow the convo was about atheism...
He told me that when he was about 12 yrs old, (his younger sister was 7)...His family always go to church every sunday...And one sunday, his younger sister said to the priest "Hello there God.." And she was serious, my friend and other people who heard it was laughing.....I thought this was funny, and the priest made a sermon about it.....

I believe that from the beggining of time, God have been trying to communicate with the human race for thousands of years, though as time goes by, we mature..."The kingdom of God can be likened by a mustard seed, it starts out very small but when it grows, it is so huge that birds of the air dwell at its nest..."- Jesus Christ....

That 2 nights when I heard God spoke to me, it is not for me to prove which God it was "christian God or Zeus, or Alla..." Anyone is entitled to call God according to their understanding, or language..

However I believe it was Jesus who spoke to me..Though the first one I havent seen Him because I was sitting down on the dark, but the 2nd time I was praying with the picture of Jesus' face (The picture didnt move or anything...).

I believe that many religions have a lot of misconceptions about what the Creator wants of us....The bible said concerning Jesus "I COME TO TELL THE WORLD THAT THEY ARE WRONG ABOUT GOD'S THOUGHTS AND JUDGMENT"....Jesus showed who God really is......

Prophets have been communicating to God in the old times, but many believed he is a God of wrath, no mercy, loves destruction....some have not fully understood Him, thats why it was necessary for Jesus to arrive to show the human race that God isnt the evil and vengfull as they thought of Him....
God is JUSTICE...You sow what you reap, for the same measure you give it shall be measured back unto you....
God is so good that here I am talking about Him, when I am not worthy, day by day I sinned (not that I wanted to) and I am trying to do good BUT GOD KNOWS YOUR HEART, HE KOWS WHEN YOUR FAKING IT...SOME PEOPLE WOULD SAY "IT DOESNT MATTER IF YOU SIN, GOD FORGIVES YOU ANYWAY, HE DIED FOR YOU ALREADY..." YOU CANNOT FOOL GOD, HE KNOWS YOUR HEARTS HE KNOWS WHEN YOU ARE REALLY TRYING TO BE GOOD OR NOT.......

WE ARE NOT CALLED TO BE SUCCESFULL, BUT WE ARE CALLED TO BE FAITHFULL....COME TO GOD JUST THE WAY YOU ARE...YOU MAYBE A PERVERT, HARDCORE CUSSER, GOSSIPER, HATER, GAY, WHATEVER YOUR CIRCUMSTANCES, COME JUST THE WAY YOU ARE....HE DIED FOR YOUR SINS, BE REALLY SORRY AS YOU MEAN IT, TRY TO SIN N0 MORE, PROGRESS YOUR LIFE INTO DOING GOOD (THIS MAY TAKE TIME) BUT BE FAITHFULL.......I ASSURE YOU, YOU WILL NOT REGRET IT...THE WORLD IS CRUEL, BUT THE WORLD IS ORDER AS WELL, YOU MAY THINK THERE IS NO JUSTICE AND THAT THE WORLD IS NOT FAIR, TRUST ME, LIFE IN GENERAL IS FAIR, WHEN YOU HAVE CHRIST IN YOOUR LIFE, LIFE IN ALL ITS CONTEXT IS COMPLETE..........

whatsupyall,in the beginning of time there was no human race,
that guys sister was 7 and spoke to god?
so what,when i was 7 i spoke to imaginary friends and santa clause!

you said:
"However I believe it was Jesus who spoke to me..Though the first one I havent seen Him because I was sitting down on the dark, but the 2nd time I was praying with the picture of Jesus' face (The picture didnt move or anything...)."

have you maybe considered the fact that it was only a voice in your head,since you didnt see anything.

Theres a known phenomena that happens as you drift off to sleep,where you hear shouting,music and other noises where you cant tell where they come from,ive had it myself,
iits called HYPNOGOGIC,this is a a dream state before sleep,or in micro sleep,it can occur while you are awake if your body is tired/overworked or you have had a lack of sleep,there are many mental conditions/chemical imbalances which can cause auditory or visual hallicinations(or both).

And you dont need religion to be good,in fact religion seems to be an excuse to be bad,as history seems to point that less people would die without it.


I sin all the time,cos SIN is not a crime

gluttony,greed,anger,lust,sloth,pride,envy

Going against them 7 sins goes against my nature,and yours,i gladly sin,cos this is my only life i wanna play it MY way,
its my time now ill happily break these when i need to without the need to repent,
repent is defeatism of your own point of view,
its a joke!
so god gave you free will then tells you you cant do anything:
cos all the sins go against human nature,why give you all them emotions and feelings,then tell you they are wrong?

That means jesus died for nothing and his father put him to death,as the only thing that gave us sin was god!
temptation and so on,
what? hiding the fact we are animals,
the only difference between us and animals is we do not lick our balls,and we happen to have a little more intelligence.

 

[Jenyar]

We are the only "animals" who can manage to suspend their nature. If it is in your nature to sin, and sin is destructive behaviour, then you can try not to sin. Sin is not the condemnation of your feelings and emotions, it's the use of those feelings and emotions, against God, and against people, that's sin. You'll soon realise that you aren't capable of escaping sin by yourself - in fact, you feel somehow threatened by the very thought of trying. It feels like it's everywhere, suffocating you ... like the inverse of freedom. Like death.

You think it's your freedom that is threatened. That sin is a religious construct conceived by madmen to trap people in a naive illusion, where love and peace is exploited like a pyramid-scheme.

Our precious free will has become drunk with a poisonous freedom we have carved out of our disharmonious environment like an idol. We are at a stage where 'freedom' actually imposes on other people's lives. I think the god of this world isn't money - it's this so-called 'freedom'.

But it's all for one and everybody for himself, isn't it? If you look for God while your own life is corrupted beyond recognition, don't be surprised that you don't recognise Him. Where you ought to be glad that someone you don't even know has died not only for your sin, but for those of your parents and everybody around you - your death - you are pleading ignorance and are condemned not by God, but by your refusal to recognise God. Doubt is no excuse. You are supposed to doubt. But just be sure you doubt fairly and equally - doubt your freedom just as much as you doubt in God's existence. Realize you are trapped by other people, not by yourself. What use is your freedom if you can't exercise it?

 

[sycoindian]

---However I believe it was Jesus who spoke to me..Though the first one I havent seen Him because I was sitting down on the dark, but the 2nd time I was praying with the picture of Jesus' face (The picture didnt move or anything...). ----

super weak

 

[heflores]

Originally posted by snow
True but I never said that Jesus was God.I believe it,but I was talking about the people that say he never existed.

I have sceintific theory that supports the notion that Jesus is not god.

First if we assume that god is the creator and maintainer of the entire universe, thus god may not possibly be totally encompassed in one human body. If god would to choose and to enter in whole one body, then that body would become the universe and everything outside of it would cease in existance.

One may say, god was partly in Jesus then and not totally, so I ask isn't god in everything he creats then. The world as performing it's function we see today didn't change when Jesus came, because the stars, moons, sky, ect still revolved around orbits, gravity worked, people lived, and they all did outside of Jesus body, so Jesus or anyother human with flesh can not possibly be god. Wise men with inspiration and a more direct relationship with god than other humans, I can believe that.

 

[Cris]

Jenyar,

We are the only "animals" who can manage to suspend their nature. If it is in your nature to sin, and sin is destructive behaviour, then you can try not to sin.

The issue isn’t a suspension of their nature but the ability to understand their nature and take responsibility for it. There is nothing natural about sin since sin is purely a religious construct devised to belittle human ability and imply the necessity of a god. This is a key tenet of religious propaganda.

Humans have the capability to learn about themselves and their environment and they are free to make choices concerning their actions based on their knowledge. Poor education, misunderstandings and lack of knowledge tend to lead to poor choices. The solution is not to give up and say they are powerless to change but rather to make an effort to discover what they did wrong and learn and grow from that new knowledge.

In contrast, religions would have us believe that humans are basically flawed and unable to change, and must admit their inadequacy and prostrate themselves before an alleged flawless and dictatorial super being, and beg for mercy / ask to be forgiven.

Sin is not the condemnation of your feelings and emotions, it's the use of those feelings and emotions, against God, and against people, that's sin.

Sin is defined as the disobedience of a god. The persistent and continual insistence by some religions, especially Christianity, that humans are weak and unable to solve their own problems, as any good psychologist will state, tends to enforce that belief until the point where the victim becomes dependent on the alleged solution, i.e. the god. This is otherwise known as brainwashing.

You'll soon realise that you aren't capable of escaping sin by yourself - in fact, you feel somehow threatened by the very thought of trying. It feels like it's everywhere, suffocating you ... like the inverse of freedom. Like death.

And you demonstrate my point quite perfectly. Repeat and repeat that humans are failures, they need help, that they are flawed. Said often enough then the gullible and the not so gullible will give in and believe it is true. The well tried and tested technique of brainwashing.

You think it's your freedom that is threatened. That sin is a religious construct conceived by madmen to trap people in a naive illusion, where love and peace is exploited like a pyramid-scheme.

Bingo.

Our precious free will has become drunk with a poisonous freedom we have carved out of our disharmonious environment like an idol. We are at a stage where 'freedom' actually imposes on other people's lives. I think the god of this world isn't money - it's this so-called 'freedom'.

Sounds like more religious propaganda. E.g. humans are inherently bad, and freedom to think for oneself is a bad thing. And Christianity certainly cannot allow people to escape from its tyrannical grasp, freedom to think can never be allowed.

But it's all for one and everybody for himself, isn't it?

That sounds like denial of the fact that millions of people in the world operate on the basis of rational social morality where the society as a group is a primary beneficiary, and where religion plays no part.

If you look for God while your own life is corrupted beyond recognition, don't be surprised that you don't recognise Him.

More propaganda – if one disbelieves then they must be corrupt.

Where you ought to be glad that someone you don't even know has died not only for your sin, but for those of your parents and everybody around you - your death - you are pleading ignorance and are condemned not by God, but by your refusal to recognise God.

This is one of the other primary tactics of Christianity, appeal to the emotions and make people feel sympathetic. A good political trick that generally has no substance as is the case here.

Who died? Didn’t he just take a short break and rise again a few hours later. Why feel any emotion or sympathy for a temporary absence and a god who it seems created a flawed universe with flawed beings and then has to have himself killed in the hope of recovering from his original design errors?

Doubt is no excuse. You are supposed to doubt.

Doubt can always be cured through adequate information, and an ability to think clearly, and making informed choices. Accepting doubt as inevitable and hence ignorance is again encouraging ignorance rather than knowledge. And ignorance is a basic requirement of any tyrannical religious doctrine like Christianity.

But just be sure you doubt fairly and equally - doubt your freedom just as much as you doubt in God's existence.

Yes, continue to enforce the idea that freedom is a bad thing. Submission to the Christian God and freedom to think for oneself are obviously mutually exclusive, but people must not realize that.

Realize you are trapped by other people, not by yourself. What use is your freedom if you can't exercise it?

Right, don’t listen to other people who might tell you there is no god and that freedom to think for yourself is a good thing. Imply of course that real freedom is the absolute submission to a tyrannical super being, kinda sounds like enslavement rather than any kind of freedom.

 

[heflores]

Originally posted by Cris


In contrast, religions would have us believe that humans are basically flawed and unable to change, and must admit their inadequacy and prostrate themselves before an alleged flawless and dictatorial super being, and beg for mercy / ask to be forgiven.

You have it all wrong about religions buddy. Submission to your creator, and you must have a creator, it's not a grey hair zeus, or a blonde hair blue eyes Jesus, ect....consider it submitting to our source, doesn't mean we're admiting inadequacy, on the contrary it provides solid grounds for building on. By you saying that there's no source for the creation of humans and thus no basis, you've just made us all inadequate.

Sin is defined as the disobedience of a god. The persistent and continual insistence by some religions, especially Christianity, that humans are weak and unable to solve their own problems, as any good psychologist will state, tends to enforce that belief until the point where the victim becomes dependent on the alleged solution, i.e. the god. This is otherwise known as brainwashing.

You have it all wrong here too. Sin is not disobediance to god, it's harming the self and undermining one's great destiny.

Reading your words, you're not much different than a brain washed christian, or a brain washed muslim, you're just a brain washed aetheist....Same thing...diddo.

 

[Vienna]

Originally posted by Heflores

you're just a brain washed aetheist....Same thing...diddo.

Whats a "diddo" ?

Y'know something, atheists are very intelligent people, they are people who can live their life without the need for a crutch....the crutch of religion.