Yep. And there are flat Earthers who firmly believe they are open minded - but they don't accept the round-earth theory because no one has proven it to their satisfaction. And never will, because they have a belief.
Should we take Ray Comfort Serious? If no, what not?
- Thread starter Jan Ardena
- Start date
Other than:
The fossil record.
The fact that we have seen over a dozen new species evolve just in the time we've been watching.
The fact that we have plenty of species in transition, in the process of evolving from one form to another.
The research into molecular clocks that prove we share ancestors with the other primates.
The research into genetics that prove we have very similar DNA to bonobos and chimpanzees, and that that similarity decreases the further back the most recent common ancestor it.
The fact that antibiotic evolution is becoming a huge risk for
Examples of rapid evolution into new forms (the cichlid adaptive radiation in Victoria Lake for example.)
Which is why scientists accept it as fact - the overwhelming amount of evidence for its existence.
Because he chose the worst answer and put that in his video. You can be sure that he edited out all the more intelligent answers. Why? Because as you said, there's nothing wrong with making money - and he wants to make a lot of money.
Jan Ardena:
I watched it, expecting some arguments against evolution, seeing as the video title promises to "shatter your faith in evolution". But there was only one argument in the entire half hour.
I'm not quite sure what "grievances" you are expecting people to have with this. I guess my main grievance is that I can't get the half hour of my life that I spent watching this back. I also didn't really like Ray's confrontational, preachy style, either, but Ray has never been one for listening to anything that other people have to say to him.
What do we learn from this half hour of Ray's preaching? Let me summarise (with approximate time codes).
7:30 God made man. Ray asserts that Man is not an ape. He knows this because the bible says so.
8:30 Ray has been reading the bible daily for 35 years and have never found any mistakes in it. [Ray should probably start reading more widely.]
9:00 Evolution is "unscientific" because "dogs don't have chickens" and "cows don't have horses". [*shrug* Evolution doesn't say they do.]
10:00 Nobody has found a crock-o-duck. [*shrug* Evolution doesn't say we should expect any such thing.]
12:30 God doesn't like his name being used in vain.
13:30 God says all humans are filthy sinners.
14:00 You have to be perfect in thought, word and deed to get into heaven. Since nobody is, the only answer is to throw yourself on God's mercy and hope he decides to let you in anyway.
18:30 Christians like Ray should do more evangelising. This is followed by a lengthy cartoon about fishing.
22:00 Message to Christians: trust Jesus to make you a Fisher of Men.
24:00 Believing in God won't help you in the case of disaster, especially if a church collapses on you. Don't expect God to help you there. If God wants you dead, that's just his plan and you have to accept that.
25:30 God will judge everybody on the Day of Judgment because God is the Standard of Righteousness and so he's allowed.
That was pretty much it.
Ray spends most of the video urging his fellow fundamentalist Christians to get out there and try to convert people, like he does. He spends a few minutes showing how little he knows about evolution. The rest of his time is spent in an ego-boosting exercise where Ray insults some normal people on the street because they are less devout than he is.
What did you take away from the video, Jan? Got any grievances of your own?
Is this what you spend your time on, Jan? You could learn something about evolution rather than watching Ray evangelising in Prague, you know.
I watched it, expecting some arguments against evolution, seeing as the video title promises to "shatter your faith in evolution". But there was only one argument in the entire half hour.
I'm not quite sure what "grievances" you are expecting people to have with this. I guess my main grievance is that I can't get the half hour of my life that I spent watching this back. I also didn't really like Ray's confrontational, preachy style, either, but Ray has never been one for listening to anything that other people have to say to him.
What do we learn from this half hour of Ray's preaching? Let me summarise (with approximate time codes).
7:30 God made man. Ray asserts that Man is not an ape. He knows this because the bible says so.
8:30 Ray has been reading the bible daily for 35 years and have never found any mistakes in it. [Ray should probably start reading more widely.]
9:00 Evolution is "unscientific" because "dogs don't have chickens" and "cows don't have horses". [*shrug* Evolution doesn't say they do.]
10:00 Nobody has found a crock-o-duck. [*shrug* Evolution doesn't say we should expect any such thing.]
12:30 God doesn't like his name being used in vain.
13:30 God says all humans are filthy sinners.
14:00 You have to be perfect in thought, word and deed to get into heaven. Since nobody is, the only answer is to throw yourself on God's mercy and hope he decides to let you in anyway.
18:30 Christians like Ray should do more evangelising. This is followed by a lengthy cartoon about fishing.
22:00 Message to Christians: trust Jesus to make you a Fisher of Men.
24:00 Believing in God won't help you in the case of disaster, especially if a church collapses on you. Don't expect God to help you there. If God wants you dead, that's just his plan and you have to accept that.
25:30 God will judge everybody on the Day of Judgment because God is the Standard of Righteousness and so he's allowed.
That was pretty much it.
Ray spends most of the video urging his fellow fundamentalist Christians to get out there and try to convert people, like he does. He spends a few minutes showing how little he knows about evolution. The rest of his time is spent in an ego-boosting exercise where Ray insults some normal people on the street because they are less devout than he is.
What did you take away from the video, Jan? Got any grievances of your own?
What do you want, Jan? Do you expect somebody to teach you biology from scratch? Nothing in biology makes any sense except in the light of evolution.
We've been through this before. If you don't accept "Darwinian evolution" (by which I assume you mean evolution by natural selection) then you don't accept evolution.
You can't simply redefine the word to suit yourself. It has an accepted meaning.
I thought it was okay.
Whatever you think it takes.
Of course course I accept evolution.
I see evolution occur. Every single person accepts evolution.
Show that darwinian evolution occurs.
It doesn’t matter.
It’s the principle of creatures turning into other creatures.
Again it makes not a hoot of a difference, what turns into what. Show that anything at all turned into some other anything.
What do you mean?
Everyone knows little about darwinian evolution apparently, because no one can show anything without believing it in faith.
Be my guest if you think you can step up.
That’s if there were more intelligent answers.
What!
Do you think that list you gave is evidence of Darwinism?
I've already explained that several times, but it looks like I'll have to again repeat myself. You have zero knowledge because that's what you demonstrate here on this forum, zero knowledge. You deny evolution based on zero knowledge.
That's most likely your lack of knowledge of the meaning of words in the English language. There are so many you still have yet to look up in a dictionary.
You don't understand evolution and you don't accept it at all. You've made that crystal clear.
That's what evolution is, the theory based on Darwin.
Their fragile creationist egos are the reason they reject evolution.
It's funny how folks who got all their information from the Bible and Christianity; a religion, now don't want to call them religious beliefs but instead, "Spiritual Beliefs". That's fine, you can call them "Lemon Meringue Beliefs" if you want, but they're all religious beliefs, notwithstanding.
The classic Jan Ardena series of posts. If you understand this string of posts from Jan you will understand everything about his approach to discussion:
JamesR (produces proof)
You do not understand evolution, then. Darwinian evolution IS evolution, just as Einsteinian special relativity IS relativity.
Yes. It is evidence of evolution (Darwinian evolution, that is.)
Look, your ignorance is cute, kudos to you. It is clear you desperately need to maintain a high level of ignorance, because learning more about science would jeopardize your strongly held religious beliefs. You can ask us to teach you biology all you like, but you have a strong incentive to not learn it - and thus you will not. To paraphrase Monckton, "it is difficult to teach a man something when his entire religious worldview depends on him not understanding it."
Don’t deny evolution.
Couldn’t even if I wanted to.
You are done.
You’re just in repeat mode,
Fundies can only go to the limit of their program.
No it’s not.
We see evidence of evolution all around us.
No sign of darwinism.
It’s time for you to come clean mate.
Are you blind/deaf?
Nobody rejects evolution.
Only darwinism is rejected.
But, you did and you are denying evolution
Those are one and the same, Jan. Darwinisn is evolution. Everyone keeps telling you this but you refuse to listen, hence we all have to keep repeating ourselves.
They are the same thing, Jan. Wake up.
Look, instead of everyone dancing to Jan's fiddle, maybe everyone should just ask Jan to explain why the evidence that has been produced is not evidence of Darwinism? He clearly views Darwinism as specific theories of the mechanism of evolution, rather than being the whole of evolution itself, so maybe he can explain what he considers the mechanisms labelled as "Darwinism" to be, and thus why the evidence put forward is not evidence of Darwinism?
If not, and if you don't push him on it, then he's just taking you for a ride, and you're all happily paying the fare.
And if that's the case then I hope you enjoy the journey, 'cos no matter how much you pay you're going to end up in the same place.
If not, and if you don't push him on it, then he's just taking you for a ride, and you're all happily paying the fare.
And if that's the case then I hope you enjoy the journey, 'cos no matter how much you pay you're going to end up in the same place.
Fiddle, no. Poke him with a stick more like it.
"Really, you actually believe that? Really?"
True, I asked Jan to explain the differences and he deliberately ignored the question.
“Ouch!” Ye.. Ouch! YES
Put that weapon down woman!