samcdkey on Islam

Although the Quran has 114 suras or chapters, Imam Bukhari does not explain all
the verses in all the suras. Sura 2, Al Baqarah has 286 verses, but Bukhari
only provides hadith for about 50 verses. This is slightly over 20% of Al
Baqarah. Bukhari has left the Ulamma groping the dark over the remaining 80%.

Sura AL Kauther (Sura 108) is the shortest sura in the Quran, only 3 verses.
However Bukhari "attempts" to explain the meaning of just one word "Kauther"
as sufficient to explain this whole Sura. Bukhari says; "Kauther" is a river
in heaven.


The greatest surprise of all is that 28 suras of the Quran are NOT
"explained" at all. The sura numbers are as follows; 23, 27, 29, 35, 51, 57,
58, 64, 67, 69, 70, 73, 76, 81, 82, 86, 88, 89, 90, 94, 100, 101, 103, 104,
105, 106, 107, and 109. Bukhari explains this away as follows "no hadith were
mentioned here."


According to the scholars only the Prophet is supposed to be the source of
the hadith. The hadith is supposed to explain the Quran. The BIG question is,
"Who went on un authorized holiday for 28 WHOLE SURAS of the Quran ?!!!


The scholars insist that the hadith explains the Quran. Hence the scholars
have to do away with 28 SURAS of the Quran because Bukhari did not explain
these 28 SURAS..

Why?
 
samcdkey said:
And no, there is no absolute evidence of Ayesha's age since there are several contradictory reports of her age, none of which place her at such a young age at the time of marriage. I would consider historical records more accurate than hearsay compilations, since the records were kept by different people for reasons other than recording her age.
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There is no 'absolute' evidence of Aisha's age, but then, how could there be?

That she herself reveals her age in the hadiths traditonally thought to be narrated by her speaks for itself as the best of all possible sources.
 
Vega said:
Although the Quran has 114 suras or chapters, Imam Bukhari does not explain all
the verses in all the suras. Sura 2, Al Baqarah has 286 verses, but Bukhari
only provides hadith for about 50 verses. This is slightly over 20% of Al
Baqarah. Bukhari has left the Ulamma groping the dark over the remaining 80%.

Sura AL Kauther (Sura 108) is the shortest sura in the Quran, only 3 verses.
However Bukhari "attempts" to explain the meaning of just one word "Kauther"
as sufficient to explain this whole Sura. Bukhari says; "Kauther" is a river
in heaven.


The greatest surprise of all is that 28 suras of the Quran are NOT
"explained" at all. The sura numbers are as follows; 23, 27, 29, 35, 51, 57,
58, 64, 67, 69, 70, 73, 76, 81, 82, 86, 88, 89, 90, 94, 100, 101, 103, 104,
105, 106, 107, and 109. Bukhari explains this away as follows "no hadith were
mentioned here."


According to the scholars only the Prophet is supposed to be the source of
the hadith. The hadith is supposed to explain the Quran. The BIG question is,
"Who went on un authorized holiday for 28 WHOLE SURAS of the Quran ?!!!


The scholars insist that the hadith explains the Quran. Hence the scholars
have to do away with 28 SURAS of the Quran because Bukhari did not explain
these 28 SURAS..

Why?
Click to expand...

It might help to know the following:

Muhammed died in 632.

As for the Hadith, they are interpretations of the Quran, meant to simply the verses for those who find the Quran's language confusing. Thus, they are merely collections of what was known at the time of the collection passed on by word of mouth over the time from when Mohammed died until when the Hadith were collected. Though many are said to be "verified", they are contradicted by historical records maintained by Islamic historians at the time of Mohammed.

However, because the Hadith was meant to support the Quran (not overwhelm it) all possible records were kept and the available citations were preserved. There was no way to actually authenticate the citations after 200 years so two occurences of a citation were used to consider it valid (or three I don't remember exactly). The sources of each and every citation were written but again, there was no way to prove veracity.

And they are incomplete because citations for all verses could not be found.


There are six major Hadith collections, which includes:

1. Sahih Bukhari, collected by al-Bukhari (d. 870), included 7275 hadiths
2. Sahih Muslim, collected by Muslim b. al-Hajjaj (d. 875), included 9200
3. Sunan Abi Da'ud, collected by Abu Da'ud (d. 888)
4. Sunan al-Tirmidhi, collected by al-Tirmidhi (d. 892)
5. Sunan al-Sughra, collected by al-Nasa'i (d. 915)
6. Sunan Ibn Maja, collected by Ibn Maja (d. 886).
 
Carcano said:
There is no 'absolute' evidence of Aisha's age, but then, how could there be?

That she herself reveals her age in the hadiths traditonally thought to be narrated by her speaks for itself as the best of all possible sources.
Click to expand...

How does she "reveal" her age in a Hadith written 200 years after Mohammed's death?

I would rather trust the historical records maintained at the time of Mohammed by historians.
 
samcdkey said:
Were there two programs? I saw the one by Anisa Mehdi and there was no such thing in it.
Click to expand...
Samcdkey !!!!!!!!!
Are you blind !!!!!!!!!
That was exactly that program - the black south african (Khalil Mandhlazi) was totally discriminated in this program , and had to move away from his designated tent to another tent with NEGROES !!!!
I later saw an interview with him about his experience in Mekka - he was
totally dissapointed !!!

I have not been able to find that interview here on a website - but read this
about Anisa Mehdis program - please notice that the black south african
Khalil Mandhlazi complains about beeing discriminated because of his
"BROWN SKIN" :(

http://www.al-amana.org/article.php?id=314

:mad:
 
samcdkey said:
How does she "reveal" her age in a Hadith written 200 years after Mohammed's death?
Click to expand...
How you we know thats when these particular texts were written?

And even if they were, they may have been a literal record of an tradition passed on by word of mouth, as in the case of some of the Christian gospels.

I should say though that marriage at an early age was common in much of the ancient world, so the story is not unique.
 
Did I say this before? It doesn't matter if Mohammed had a young wife. People back then didn't commonly live much past 35, they had to get their living in fast. It doesn't matter if he had slaves, that was like a thousand years ago.
 
Paraclete said:
Samcdkey !!!!!!!!!
Are you blind !!!!!!!!!
That was exactly that program - the black south african (Khalil Mandhlazi) was totally discriminated in this program , and had to move away from his designated tent to another tent with NEGROES !!!!
I later saw an interview with him about his experience in Mekka - he was
totally dissapointed !!!

I have not been able to find that interview here on a website - but read this
about Anisa Mehdis program - please notice that the black south african
Khalil Mandhlazi complains about beeing discriminated because of his
"BROWN SKIN" :(

http://www.al-amana.org/article.php?id=314 :mad:
Click to expand...

All I can say is he must be extra sensitive. The Saudis in the Taif region (close to Mecca) are black as coal- if they stared at him for his brown skin, it was probably because he was whiter than them; and all the shopkeepers are of African or Asian origin with very few of Arab origin. So who was staring at him? And the Hajj is so very crowded, any one with racial problems or a sensitive nose had better stay at home. It's hard enough to walk or talk let alone gaze at the skin color of people next to you.

Have you any idea at all how many people go for Haj? More than two million.

Check out this pic.http://www.zawaj.com/events/hajj2003/going_to_muzdalifa.jpg

You'll be lucky if you can see your feet most of the time.
 
Carcano said:
How you we know thats when these particular texts were written?

And even if they were, they may have been a literal record of an tradition passed on by word of mouth, as in the case of some of the Christian gospels.

I should say though that marriage at an early age was common in much of the ancient world, so the story is not unique.
Click to expand...

Because we know who collected the Hadiths and when they did it?

See my post to Vega.
 
Paraclete said:
Exactly WHO are those historians !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Click to expand...

Read the link I posted to Vega. These are the historians who maintained the records of the wars at the time of Mohammed.
 
There are several hadiths (said to have been narrated by Aisha herself) which state she was six or seven years old when she was married and nine years old when the marriage was consummated, but other traditional material (hadith, sira, etc.) suggests that Aisha may have been anywhere from twelve to twenty years old when she married. ( doesn't help keep big "Mo" away from pedophile charges!!)

But as you said ..there was no way to actually authenticate the hadith!
 
samcdkey said:
All I can say is he must be extra sensitive. The Saudis in the Taif region (close to Mecca) are black as coal- if they stared at him for his brown skin, it was probably because he was whiter than them.
Click to expand...

Right Samcdkey - the bloody nigger was just too sensitive !!!!!!!!!!!
And because he was too white - he had to move to another tent with
BLACK niggers !!!!!!!!!!!

:mad:
 
The notion that children are anything different from just young adults is a relatively new one. In the past, they had to work, they had jobs, they went to prison, they were treated as adults.
 
Vega said:
There are several hadiths (said to have been narrated by Aisha herself) which state she was six or seven years old when she was married and nine years old when the marriage was consummated, but other traditional material (hadith, sira, etc.) suggests that Aisha may have been anywhere from twelve to twenty years old when she married. ( doesn't help keep big "Mo" away from pedophile charges!!)

But as you said ..there was no way to actually authenticate the hadith!
Click to expand...

The average age of marriage in Arabia and in the Indian subcontinent until maybe 50 years ago was 12. My own grandmother was married at 12. It is a cultural practice. Pedophilia is a Western concept, it did not exist in Asia or Arabia.
 
Carcano said:
He owned slaves right up until the time of his death. Just because some slaves were freed for whatever reason doesn't mean he was against the practise in general.

This topic was covered well before by Michael:

http://www.sciforums.com/printthread.php?t=44145&page=16&pp=40
Click to expand...

Yes, I went through this thread. What is referred to there are the prisoners that Mohammed took from his wars against his enemies. These people were his POWs and remained his "slaves" (the Arabic word is POW) until they could buy their freedom from him (they were paid servants). He also had several paid servants (the Arabic word is devout servant) who worked for him.
 
Vega said:
There are several hadiths (said to have been narrated by Aisha herself) which state she was six or seven years old when she was married and nine years old when the marriage was consummated, but other traditional material (hadith, sira, etc.) suggests that Aisha may have been anywhere from twelve to twenty years old when she married. ( doesn't help keep big "Mo" away from pedophile charges!!)

But as you said ..there was no way to actually authenticate the hadith!
Click to expand...

No but one can compare against historical records (not in the Hadith, as they are war records, not religious records) to verify.
 
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