how come every time i give a phrase showing jews in bad light in islam,it has to be understood ,it has to be read with the relevant text,but when you give me a phrase wich shows them on good light in islam you dont try to explain it with text and mambo jumbo that dont really answer anything?samcdkey said:
samcdkey on Islam
- Thread starter superluminal
- Start date
http://jews-for-allah.org/Jews-and-Muslims-Agree/jewish-koran.htm
The first time a Jew reads the Quran he is often surprised by the fact that the Quran does not focus on Muhammed, Ishmael or the Arab people. Instead the Quran focuses primarilly on the Jewish patriarchs and prophets. The Quran concerns itself primarily with the history and future of the Children of Israel. Thus the primary figures of the Quran are figures like Abraham, Joseph, Moses and King David. In fact the primary figure of the Quran is Moshe Aveynu (Moses our father) who is mentioned more than any other individual in the Quran. Many Jews are surprised to learn that one entire "Surah" (chapter) of the Quran (Surah 17) is titled "The Children of Israel".
The first time a Jew reads the Quran he is often surprised by the fact that the Quran does not focus on Muhammed, Ishmael or the Arab people. Instead the Quran focuses primarilly on the Jewish patriarchs and prophets. The Quran concerns itself primarily with the history and future of the Children of Israel. Thus the primary figures of the Quran are figures like Abraham, Joseph, Moses and King David. In fact the primary figure of the Quran is Moshe Aveynu (Moses our father) who is mentioned more than any other individual in the Quran. Many Jews are surprised to learn that one entire "Surah" (chapter) of the Quran (Surah 17) is titled "The Children of Israel".
i am not many jews.im getting impatience with your replys that does not answers any of my quastions-seriuosly?you find your self convincing?samcdkey said:
do you really have that low of opinion on the intelligence level of the users in this forums?
I'm guessing the only answers that satisfy you are those which subscribe to your propaganda. I'm surprised you would even ask me a question, after all I am a Muslim so obviously by your own logic, I cannot be objective. You on the other hand are obviously objective since you are more knowledgeable than Islamic scholars regarding the interpretation of the verses. I think you should just ask yourself all the questions you want to ask. You will get the most satisfactory answers, I assure you.
i am not objective-that is probably your opinion of me.i am very subjective.i am a jew,and i am many things-but stupid is not one of them.samcdkey said:
if after what i showed here poeple still want to practice islam its their choice-at least they will know what they are practicing.they wont be missled by a novice who is concealing from them all the facts.
people may be more inclined to listen to you dipshitpredator_190 said:
thedevilsreject said:
i think you missunderstood me-if i gave a source with a virus,how will that serve my interest lol
never mind-im not insolted.
***
happy birthday thedevilsreject-even though im a little bit late
-this forum needs more smiles.
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Carcano
Valued Senior Member
samcdkey said:
Thanks for your efforts. Personally it all seems like a colossal stretch to try and equate any of Islamic history from Muhammed on to the ideals of western democratic governance.
It didn't exist during the time of the prophet himself, who was not elected by 'the people' , nor at any time after his death. What I've read of the subject indicates a heriditary or military lineage of dictatorship.
There may be some ideals derived from later books written by interpreters (who were not themselves prophets), but of course, this is light years from any reality.
There seem to be people who are what you could call 'Koran-only' muslims who reject all later commentary based on the notion that its merely human opinion, not divinely inspired revelation.
Carcano said:
No the Prophet was not elected by the people, but nor did he use his position to install a dictatorship. Mohammed was the first one to create orphanages in the Arab world; he was also the one who indicated the use of a tax (zakat for Muslims and jizya for non-Muslims) as a portion of the wealth of the rich people to be given for the use of the 3 groups in society:
1. poor relatives and friends
2. widows & orphans
3. destitutes
This practice is still followed by Muslims who give 2% of income as tax. Women are also not exempt from this tax and also have to pay tax on gold jewelry.
In addition there is the sadaqah, which is a contribution willingly given from your own pocket for anyone who is in need.
There is also the hadiyah or gift, given to friends and employees on special occasions.
During Ramadan, the breaking of the fast is a special occasion. Mohammed initiated the practice of having a communal breaking of the fast where richer people in the community take turns providing food, fruits, juices, etc. for those people in the community whoo could not afford it. This is also in practice until today.
He banned the practice of female infanticide and made it possible for women to remarry after divorce or widowhood. Women were also given complete control over their own wealth with not even the husband having any rights on a woman's property.
Since he always consulted the four companions (who later became the Caliphs) and his wives, his decisions were usually based on the opinion of the people. His wife Khadeja was his guide when she was alive while Ayesha was a consultant for years after his death. He even went to war against his own judgement on one occasion on the recommendation of the Caliphs. .During his time, usury and monopoly in business practices was not allowed and nor was begging or unemployment.
Also by abolishing the distinction between black and white, color and race, he was the first to insist on the unity of man as one race. This is evident in Hajj when the only thing men are permitted are the same two white pieces of cloth, nothing else.
The only later interpretations are those collected 200-400 years after his death and compiled as the Hadith. I personally do not consider them as reliable as the Quran for that very reason. Also the qadis who used the Hadith and compiled the Shariah were frequently accused of corruption and favoritism, which is why I also do not have faith in the Shariah (not to say that all parts of either are all dubious but 200 years after the fact, how much of it can you really believe in?)
But if you follow the Quran with the history and circumstances of the revelations, the spirit is democratic and practical with indications for personal, social and political conduct.
And there are of course as many opinions as there are people, but I believe that change is good; keeps people questioning and gets more people out of fundamentalism.
Could be that this is what Muhammed intented - however I saw a programsamcdkey said:
on National Geographic about Hajj - a black south african muslim , was so discriminated that he had to move to a tent with other black african muslims -
just to be able to fulfill his hajj - he thought that muslims were all equal muslim brothers - but he came back from Mekka , beeing very, very dissapointed !!!!!!!!!!!!
Samcdkey - many black americans are now becoming muslims !!!!
Please inform me what the Koran says about slavery !!!!
I have talked with several muslims - they all claim , that islam is the only religion ,
which ALLOW SLAVERY !!! - but slaves , that convert to islam , should be treated sort of nice !!!!!!!!
I have travelled a lot especially in Africa - in Ethiopia slavery performed by muslims ,
was practised up to about 1933 - they bought black africans , transported them in caravans to the coast of Djibouti and Eritrea and shipped them to Arabia.
At last the christian empire of Ethiopia stopped this slave traffic.
The muslims defended their trade with these words : The holy prophet Muhammed
says that making people slaves and trading with them is allowed in the Koran !!!!!!!
And : they also said : the slaves are only NEGROES !!!!!!!!!!!!
Still wonder why african americans convert to islam !!!!
Please inform me what the Koran says about slavery !!!!
I have talked with several muslims - they all claim , that islam is the only religion ,
which ALLOW SLAVERY !!! - but slaves , that convert to islam , should be treated sort of nice !!!!!!!!
I have travelled a lot especially in Africa - in Ethiopia slavery performed by muslims ,
was practised up to about 1933 - they bought black africans , transported them in caravans to the coast of Djibouti and Eritrea and shipped them to Arabia.
At last the christian empire of Ethiopia stopped this slave traffic.
The muslims defended their trade with these words : The holy prophet Muhammed
says that making people slaves and trading with them is allowed in the Koran !!!!!!!
And : they also said : the slaves are only NEGROES !!!!!!!!!!!!
Still wonder why african americans convert to islam !!!!
Paraclete said:Could be that this is what Muhammed intented - however I saw a program
on National Geographic about Hajj - a black south african muslim , was so discriminated that he had to move to a tent with other black african muslims -
just to be able to fulfill his hajj - he thought that muslims were all equal muslim brothers - but he came back from Mekka , beeing very, very dissapointed !!!!!!!!!!!!
Were there two programs? I saw the one by Anisa Mehdi and there was no such thing in it.
And I was in Saudi Arabia for 5 years and went to Mecca several times. I even stayed in the mosque overnight on three different occasions with a lot of black and white Muslims. Since many Saudis are black and it is their kingdom, I'm surprised to hear this. Could you tell me some more details. I would like to see this program.
Vega said:
That's a Hadith reported 200 years after Mohammed died; it does not match the historical records.
I've already dealt with it here.
http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?p=1098924&highlight=aisha#post1098924
Carcano
Valued Senior Member
I read Aisha was 6 or 7 when she was married, but Muhammed didn't have sex with her until she was 9 years old. This from the hadiths (traditional stories) which were apparently narrated by Aisha herself.Vega said:
On the slavery thing, its well known that Muhammed owned many male and female slaves, so he was obviously in favour of slavery by example.
Carcano
Valued Senior Member
You can read all about slavery in the Koran from this source:Paraclete said:
http://www.uq.net.au/slsoc/manussa/tr05manu.htm#ch2b
Carcano said:
Since the Hadiths were compiled 200-400 years after Mohammed died, they are all based on hearsay.
And no, there is no absolute evidence of Ayesha's age since there are several contradictory reports of her age, none of which place her at such a young age at the time of marriage. I would consider historical records more accurate than hearsay compilations, since the records were kept by different people for reasons other than recording her age.
And Mohammed freed his slaves, so I would like a source for your information.