samcdkey on Islam

[Mr.Spock]

The verses revealed in Medina are topical, and were revealed in the midst of war with the Qureysh pagans (the unbelievers). They are specific to the occasion (which can be easily made out if the WHOLE verse is read, instead of the one line).

No time to do that, but if you search the archives, I've discussed them in other places.

They are also used by the terrorists as you can read in the Wiki page.

To understand the Quran, it is not enough to read one line here and there.

You must read the whole Quran, with the understanding of when and under what circumstances the verses were revealed. They were all revealed at particular times and have different significance under different context.

u ignored my 1st post but never mind.
im paticulary intested in this phrases:

"And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah, and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah. That is their saying with their mouths. They imitate the saying of those who disbelieved of old. Allah (Himself) fighteth against them. How perverse are they!"

He it is Who hath sent His messenger with the guidance and the religion of truth, that He may make it conqueror of all religion however much idolaters may be averse."

"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."

u r saying it doesnt say what its say?

 

[Mr.Spock]

Jizya-In states ruled by Islamic law, jizya or jizyah (Arabic: جزْية) is a per capita tax imposed on non-Muslim adult males, known as dhimmis.

 

[S.A.M.]

Here is a link giving the history behind some of the verses:
http://www.islamic-study.org/Quranic Verses Misinterpreted.htm

 

[S.A.M.]

Jizya-In states ruled by Islamic law, jizya or jizyah (Arabic: جزْية) is a per capita tax imposed on non-Muslim adult males, known as dhimmis.

Yes it is equal to the tax (zakat) which is imposed on all Muslim men and women. It is used for the upkeep of holy places (in Mohammed's time the jiziya was used to look after synangogues and churches) as well as to feed and clothe the poor people in the community (of all religions).

However since zakat is mentioned as an obligatory religious tax in the Quran, a different name was given to the non-Muslim tax, to avoid any religious connotations.

 

[S.A.M.]

u ignored my 1st post but never mind.
im paticulary intested in this phrases:

"And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah, and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah. That is their saying with their mouths. They imitate the saying of those who disbelieved of old. Allah (Himself) fighteth against them. How perverse are they!"

He it is Who hath sent His messenger with the guidance and the religion of truth, that He may make it conqueror of all religion however much idolaters may be averse."

"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."

u r saying it doesnt say what its say?

Like I said it is with reference to particular people ( the Jews and Quraysh of Mecca); the emphasis on people of the book is for those Jews who along with the Meccan Quraysh had driven the Prophet and his followers out of Mecca.


And the idolators were the Quraysh who had 360 idols in Mecca.

 

[Mr.Spock]

Here is a link giving the history behind some of the verses:
http://www.islamic-study.org/Quranic Verses Misinterpreted.htm

i find it ironic this site is of islamic nature:

In the Name of Allah the Merciful the Compassionate
Institute of Arabic and Islamic Studies

thus making me suspicious of its motives and reliability.

 

[S.A.M.]

i have Question.
what is your comment on the following considering what you wrote in this topic:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taqiyya

"In Shi'a Islamic as well as Druze tradition, Taqiyya (التقية - 'fear, guard against')[1] is the dispensation allowing believers to conceal their faith when under threat, persecution or compulsion. It is based on Qur'an 3:28 and 16:106 as well as hadith, tafsir literature, and juridical commentaries.[2] Some Sunnis assert that Taqiyya is an act of hypocrisy that serves to conceal the truth. According to them, Taqiyya constitutes a lack of faith and trust in God because the person who conceals his beliefs to spare himself from danger is fearful of humans, when he should be fearful of God only."

Sorry I did not see this post.

Who are the Druze? I don't know. I don't know much about Shia's also; the majority of Muslims are Sunni (including me). I will look it up, but I am not as knowledgeable about them.

 

[Mr.Spock]

Like I said it is with reference to particular people ( the Jews and Quraysh of Mecca); the emphasis on people of the book is for those Jews who along with the Meccan Quraysh had driven the Prophet and his followers out of Mecca.


And the idolators were the Quraysh who had 360 idols in Mecca.

even with the entire text-this is to general of a claim-he adresses all of them not just a specific group.

 

[S.A.M.]

i find it ironic this site is of islamic nature:

In the Name of Allah the Merciful the Compassionate
Institute of Arabic and Islamic Studies

thus making me suspicious of its motives and reliability.

Institute of Arabic and Islamic Studies

So who will interpret the Quran? It is an Islamic site teaching Islam to Muslims.

This is the Islam that Muslims learn. Do you want to know what Muslims know about Islam or do you want to know what non-Muslims learn about Islam?

 

[Mr.Spock]

Sorry I did not see this post.

Who are the Druze? I don't know. I don't know much about Shia's also; the majority of Muslims are Sunni (including me). I will look it up, but I am not as knowledgeable about them.

u never heard of the druze?some live in israel other in arab states.
they even serve in the idf.

 

[S.A.M.]

even with the entire text-this is to general of a claim-he adresses all of them not just a specific group.

Give me a link to the entire text that you read.

I want to see the translation. I know Arabic so I can tell you.

 

[Mr.Spock]

Institute of Arabic and Islamic Studies

So who will interpret the Quran? It is an Islamic site teaching Islam to Muslims.

This is the Islam that Muslims learn. Do you want to know what Muslims know about Islam or do you want to know what non-Muslims learn about Islam?

from the same reason i question the agenda of religious jewish sites who want to make me believe in god i question them as well.

 

[S.A.M.]

The best source for translation and interpretation of the Quran is an Islamic studies site.

After all if you want to learn about something, you go to an expert, not a novice on the internet. Accuracy in interpretation is only possible if you know the language and meaning properly.

 

[Mr.Spock]

Give me a link to the entire text that you read.

I want to see the translation. I know Arabic so I can tell you.

its in the wiki link of the original quotes i posted.just press on the designated phrase num.

 

[Mr.Spock]

The best source for translation and interpretation of the Quran is an Islamic studies site.

After all if you want to learn about something, you go to an expert, not a novice on the internet.

an expert suppose to have an objective view.

 

[S.A.M.]

u never heard of the druze?some live in israel other in arab states.
they even serve in the idf.

Are they Muslims? Maybe they are a mixed group.

 

[S.A.M.]

an expert suppose to have an objective view.

That's funny. Religion is not science. You either believe or you don't.

You want me to find a Jewish or Christian site extolling the virtues of the Quran?

 

[S.A.M.]

its in the wiki link of the original quotes i posted.just press on the designated phrase num.

Okay, go to the top of the page and read the introductions to the surah; if you click on the link, you can read the whole history and the occasions when the surahs were revealed.

 

[Mr.Spock]

Are they Muslims? Maybe they are a mixed group.

i think they are.

That's funny. Religion is not science. You either believe or you don't.

You want me to find a Jewish or Christian site extolling the virtues of the Quran?

even though i doubt there is one-it will make no difference-im intrested in an objective point of view.
religion is not science,but studying(in the scientific manner) it is.

Okay, go to the top of the page and read the introductions to the surah; if you click on the link, you can read the whole history and the occasions when the surahs were revealed.

i know the background.the references to jews in the surah is still on all jews.

 

[S.A.M.]

i think they are.

even though i doubt there is one-it will make no difference-im intrested in an objective point of view.
religion is not science,but studying(in the scientific manner) it is.

i know the background.the references to jews in the surah is still on all jews.

I see your objectivity has limits.

Believe what you like, I'm sure your interpretation is way more legitimate.

I wonder who these are then:

Surely, those who believe, those who are Jewish, the Christians, and the Sabians; anyone who (1) believes in GOD, and (2) believes in the Last Day, and (3) leads a righteous life, will receive their recompense from their Lord. They have nothing to fear, nor will they grieve. (Qur'an 5:69)