Recognition of Israel : a moral failure
- Thread starter S.A.M.
- Start date
2 wrongs don't make a right.
Why shouldn't they relocate, especially the ones who have no native link to Palestine, just a religious fantasy?[/quote]
Perhaps the ones with religious fantasies could relocate. Ofcourse, I don't think anyone's going to volunteer to go into that category
. And here we begin to see the problem...Have you read the dune series, by Frank Herbert? He has some really good lines I believe. I leave you with these lines from his "Heretics of Dune" book (with a slight modification):
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To you I give the certainty that the body and soul of each of you will meet the same fate as all other bodies and all other souls.
What is survival if you do not survive whole? ...What if you no longer hear the music of life? Memories are not enough unless they call you to Noble Purpose!
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And what does that have to do with anything?
9/11 was a legitimate consequence of our meddling in the middle east. I'm not so naive to think that we can go overseas and use armed might against other peoples and never have any retaliation come back home.
From a tactical stand point it was brilliant. The first real attack on American soil since the Civil War. Not knowing their long term strategic goals I can't say if it worked out like they hoped it would, but based on the various Bin Lauden tapes I would say they underestimated the degree with which we would punish the local populations.
This is a very common mistake which people make about America. Despite example after example of our capacity to wreck havoc with gleeful abandon when provoked, we have this reputation of being "soft."
Americans are really good at killing. Just for example: American deaths 4,201. Iraq deaths about 1,288,426 depending on how you count it. About 300:1 and this is for what is mainly an occupation. The Israelis are no where near this lethal in Palestine. http://antiwar.com/casualties/
"The Israeli NGO B'Tselem maintains a list of the casualties up to the present time. The death toll, both military and civilian, over the entire period in question (2000-2007) is estimated to be over 4,300 Palestinians and over 1,000 Israelis." Or about 4:1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel-Gaza_conflict
SAM, you seem to favour the idea that different Arab nations, groups and organisations are separate entities and hence the actions of one are not the fault of the other.
Yet you constantly make comments to the effect that country X did Y to the Jews living in that country 'because of the Zionists'.
And further, a question which I hope that you will answer, or at least read:
Hypothetically, If Israel were to be disbanded tomorrow and every Jew living therein were to leave; would Palestine become a viable, prosperous, (perhaps even free) state that it would seem they desire it to be? Or perhaps, would the Palestinians, now bereft of a common enemy, shortly turn on each other as opposing factions vie for dominance and in the process; turn the country into a war torn hell-hole? Or perhaps, am I just a tad too cynical?
Yet you constantly make comments to the effect that country X did Y to the Jews living in that country 'because of the Zionists'.
And further, a question which I hope that you will answer, or at least read:
Hypothetically, If Israel were to be disbanded tomorrow and every Jew living therein were to leave; would Palestine become a viable, prosperous, (perhaps even free) state that it would seem they desire it to be? Or perhaps, would the Palestinians, now bereft of a common enemy, shortly turn on each other as opposing factions vie for dominance and in the process; turn the country into a war torn hell-hole? Or perhaps, am I just a tad too cynical?
Entropy:
You'll have to wait. I am currently awaiting feedback from the admin on what views on Israel and Jews are permissible to express on this forum. Since my opinions could be termed as anti-semitism, I should perhaps avoid expressing those opinions here.
You'll have to wait. I am currently awaiting feedback from the admin on what views on Israel and Jews are permissible to express on this forum. Since my opinions could be termed as anti-semitism, I should perhaps avoid expressing those opinions here.
Brilliant for the american war machine. You may want to take a look at pseudoscience to see how much evidence there is that it was an inside job.
Bin Laden has denied involvement in the attacks. The tape where he supposedly says it has a man who is much darker in complexion and (in my eyes) shorter then Bin Laden.
Yes, the american war machine is very good at killing. Fortunately, americans can also question historical events; it's my hope that at some point in time, the 9/11 truth movement will make it clear who was truly responsible for 9/11.
"Could be termed anti-semitism"? ...LOL! SAM, you're so fuckin' anti-semitic that it defies all logic and all reason that you've been allowed to post here at all.
Baron Max
Then I must be anti- many things since I tend to always argue from one position on most things. Is it anti-semitism to talk about the imposition of a country of Jews on the Palestinians? If it was a country of Arabs imposed on the Xians would that be anti-semitic as well? What about a discussion on the imposition of an Xian colony on native Americans and Aboriginals? Is that anti-semitic or anti-Xian? Because I have quite fixed views there as well. As a person from a colonised country, I have the same opinion of all colonies where the native population has been treated as a second class citizen. Why are Jews to be exempt from criticism of their policies in Palestine?
See? For a supposed scientist, you just don't seem to be very scientific, do you? I mean, SAM, everyone, EVERYONE, here knows you're anti-semitic and anti-American ....you've shown it billions of times!! More than all the buffalo that ever roamed the American plains!!
You're a scientist? With a college education? And you don't know what hate-speech is? ...LOL!
You're a hoot, SAM, that's a fact.
Baron Max
But see, when is something "oppression"? Who decides that? If no one except you calls it "oppression", does that make it true?
If all Muslim terrorists wear dirty rags on the heads, are all people who wear rags on their heads Muslims terrorists?
Whenever we see someone wearing rags on their heads, should we report them to the counter-terrorism cops and accuse them of terrorism?
C'mon, SAM, you know exactly what you're doing on this forum ....you're disseminating anti-Israeli propaganda. Everyone knows it, it's so blatantly obvious that most people just shake their heads and ignore you.
Baron Max
So if I have a comment on this house demolition by Israelis who are doing this only to non-Jews, in order to build homes for Jews in land they have forcibly occupied from non-Jews.
What are the politically correct terms to use for that opinion? In what way can I disseminate that opinion without including their Jewishness as a factor in their behaviour?
Let me ask you this, SAM. Why don't you ever make comments about the homes being torn down in India? Or in Vietnam? Or Cambodia? Or the USA? Or Germany?
"Jewishness" has nothing to do with tearing a house down. People do it all over the world, including Muslims and Christians! Yet you focus on ONLY the Jews or Israelis.
Does terrorism have anything to do with all the Muslims in the world? Since Muslims in many countries appear to support terrorism, does that mean that all Muslims are terrorists or terrorist supporters? So if I started using "Muslim" to mean "terrorism", you wouldn't think that that was anti-Muslim?
Hey, SAM, how many people in India are starving to death right now? How many people live in dire poverty right now? A lot, huh? So can I start to call India an oppressive nation against it's own people????? Think about it, okay?
Baron Max
You did not answer my question. I did not ask for your opinion, I asked how to present mine. Its not a debate on the rightness or wrongness of the opinion, but how personal opinions about Jews are to be presented in a politically correct manner.
Present the facts of the cases, NOT pointing what YOU think is to blame! The courts decide what's right n' wrong in most of the world today.
What you're doing is not stating facts, you're stating your inflamed opinions and using those pictures to "support" your anti-semitism and hatred. That ain't nice.
All Jews? If one Jew does something wrong, should you blame all Jews?
Can I do the same with Muslims? Since there are some Muslim terrorists, can I just blame all Muslims for all terrorism? Why not? You do it with Jews.
Baron Max
You say Islamic terrorism don't you? How is that different from saying Jewish oppression?
I'm with SAM here. I love some jewish people. There was a girl in my class when I was about 16 who I adored. I was muslim at the time, ironically enough. I still believe Natalie Portman is to die for. This doesn't mean that all jews are saints. Or all muslims. Or all americans. Put another way:
-Some- jews oppress. -Some- muslims are terrorists. So are some americans. I'd argue the worst american oppressors/terrorists are currently sitting in very high places of power indeed. Fortunately, atleast some will have their power reduced with the leaving of the current administration from the white house.